Loyalty doesn't need to cost

[dmccombe7]

Just had a listen to an Xotic J bass and it definitely sounds very nice. Very sharp and clear sounding on the bridge pick up. For me it has the sound of many expensive boutique basses including my Overwater 6er. A modern clear almost clinical tone. My Fender J certainly doesn't give me this tone but its not active.

 

[dave_bass5]

Just now, dmccombe7 said:

A modern clear almost clinical tone. My Fender J certainly doesn't give me this tone but its not active.

 

My Jazz also doesn’t get that tone, and thats why its better for me than the Xotic, 

[ead]

1 hour ago, Cuzzie said:

That’s a cracking bass.

I threw maruysh........ in the mix, but I agree with mass customisation as more appropriate.

Here’s one - for Boutique does it need that special hands on flavour?

If a CNC machine hits it, does it discount it therefore making it less hand finished?

A neck being Plek’d is different IMO

I think yes to be truly boutique.  I recognise that band saws and routers are involved but the hand finishing starts much earlier in the process.  ACG asymmetric necks feel really nice to me and Alan does most of the work by hand.  I think the love is in the small details and the finishing.

[peteb]

18 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

I totally get where you're coming from @peteb

I agree it would be a real shame if a fantastic bass is locked away in a case and never actually played. 

But it can certainly be played a lot and for the owner to get a huge amount of pleasure from a bass, without ever gigging it. 

Not for me! The bass I play at home tends to be the one with the oldest strings. I would never buy an expensive bass that I wasn’t prepared to gig.

My question for you is that if you have a Ken Smith, which I believe that you said you had, then why keep it if you prefer to gig a much cheaper Yamaha? That’s a lot of money sitting around there, so if you’re not using it then why not move it on and find a high end bass that you will bond with and use. Or alternatively, go and travel round central Europe for a few weeks (a personal one there) or whatever??

[dmccombe7]

5 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

My Jazz also doesn’t get that tone, and thats why its better for me than the Xotic, 

Know what you mean. Compared to other passive J basses my Geddy CIJ jazz has felt and sounded better than many more expensive passive J basses i've tried

[peteb]

19 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

Just had a listen to an Xotic J bass and it definitely sounds very nice. Very sharp and clear sounding on the bridge pick up. For me it has the sound of many expensive boutique basses including my Overwater 6er. A modern clear almost clinical tone. My Fender J certainly doesn't give me this tone but its not active.

 

 

17 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

My Jazz also doesn’t get that tone, and thats why its better for me than the Xotic, 

 

10 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

Know what you mean. Compared to other passive J basses my Geddy CIJ jazz has felt and sounded better than many more expensive passive J basses i've tried

To me, the Xotic just has got a classic jazz bass tone.

The clip you have there is more of an exaggerated Jaco tone , I tend to favour the neck pickup more (edit to say that I originally just listened to the first 20 seconds of the clip). Showing a clip of Carmine Rojas or Jorgen Carlsson would probably sound better to Dave. 

I reckon that the nicest sounding passive jazz that I have played was a s/h US Lakland that was in Bass Direct a couple of years ago. I was very much tempted, but I had just bought a really nice Fender Am std jazz a few months before, which had in turn replaced a perfectly good CIJ Fender jazz. 

Edited January 16, 2021 by peteb

[Al Krow]

On 16/01/2021 at 22:12, peteb said:

Not for me! The bass I play at home tends to be the one with the oldest strings. I would never buy an expensive bass that I wasn’t prepared to gig.

My question for you is that if you have a Ken Smith, which I believe that you said you had, then why keep it if you prefer to gig a much cheaper Yamaha? That’s a lot of money sitting around there, so if you’re not using it then why not move it on and find a high end bass that you will bond with and use. Or alternatively, go and travel round central Europe for a few weeks (a personal one there) or whatever??

It's a slightly arrogant statement if you stop to  think about it, though, Pete? Isn't it effectively saying that all of our colleagues who are not in a band should never be allowed to own / enjoy a high end bass, because they are not gigging them? 

Being the simple chap I am, saving up for and owning a KS that I will enjoy for many years, look after and treasure, is worth more to me than a trip around Central Europe for a few weeks. 

I get that we all have different priorities. 

Edited January 18, 2021 by Al Krow

[dmccombe7]

11 minutes ago, peteb said:

 

 

To me, the Xotic just has got a classic jazz bass tone.

The clip you have there is more of an exaggerated Jaco tone , I tend to favour the neck pickup more (edit to say that I originally just listened to the first 20 seconds of the clip). Showing a clip of Carmine Rojas or Jorgen Carlsson would probably sound better to Dave. 

I reckon that the nicest sounding passive jazz that I have played was a s/h US Lakland that was in Bass Direct a couple of years ago. I was very much tempted, but I had just bought a really nice Fender Am std jazz a few months before, which had in turn replaced a perfectly good CIJ Fender jazz. 

Had a look at Carmine Rojas clips but oddly enough the talking ones where he was talking about different songs he had a different Fender bass in each one. Obviously not his as the labels were still on the headstocks. 😀

Did see his clips with Bonnamassa and it sounded ok but not a lot different to many other active basses. From what he said in one clip with an Xotic bass they are "beautifully made" basses. Without trying one its hard to judge what the bass can do.

Think this thread is being hijacked on a different topic so i'm gonna go to bed and hopefully let it get back on track. My apologies to the OP

Dave

Edited January 16, 2021 by dmccombe7

[peteb]

18 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

It's a slightly arrogant statement if you stop to  think about it, though, Pete? Isn't it effectively saying that all of our colleagues who are not in a band should never be allowed to own / enjoy a high end bass, because they are not gigging them? 

Being the simple being I am, saving up for and owning a KS that I will enjoy for many years, look after and treasure, is worth more to me than a trip around Central Europe for a few weeks. 

I get that we all have different priorities. 

I don't think so.

If people enjoy having a top bass and just playing it around the house then good for them, but if you are a gigging musician then it just seems an unnecessary indulgence. Are you really treasuring it if you prefer to gig a cheaper Yamaha?

I used to have a Ken Smith, one of the cheaper original Burner series. It was a lovely bass, still one of my favourites of all the basses that I have owned. However, I stopped gigging it as it couldn’t really handle the abuse that I was giving it every gig. Then I needed a decent Precision for a blues gig, so I traded the KS in for an Fender AVRI that served me well for several years, before that got sold to get the P bass that I have now.

The Central Europe thing is just something that I intend to do, but it could be a week in the Bahamas or even just reducing the mortgage. There is more to life than just owning nice bases... 

Edited January 16, 2021 by peteb

[peteb]

13 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

Had a look at Carmine Rojas clips but oddly enough the talking ones where he was talking about different songs he had a different Fender bass in each one. Obviously not his as the labels were still on the headstocks. 😀

Did see his clips with Bonnamassa and it sounded ok but not a lot different to many other active basses. From what he said in one clip with an Xotic bass they are "beautifully made" basses. Without trying one its hard to judge what the bass can do.

Think this thread is being hijacked on a different topic so i'm gonna go to bed and hopefully let it get back on track. My apologies to the OP

Dave

The Xotic just sounds like a very nice active Fender, nothing more or nothing less! 

The thread has just started to explore interesting tangents and come up with some interesting contributions, just as you would hope that any normal conversation would. 

Edited January 16, 2021 by peteb

[Al Krow]

Lol! Well @peteb if you can't appreciate that folk have different priorities and they are not necessarily the same of yours...

I must have missed the thread where you were appointed judge of how we spend our money and what we do or don't do with our gear 😂

Edited January 16, 2021 by Al Krow

[Al Krow]

14 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

Had a look at Carmine Rojas clips but oddly enough the talking ones where he was talking about different songs he had a different Fender bass in each one. Obviously not his as the labels were still on the headstocks. 😀

Did see his clips with Bonnamassa and it sounded ok but not a lot different to many other active basses. From what he said in one clip with an Xotic bass they are "beautifully made" basses. Without trying one its hard to judge what the bass can do.

Think this thread is being hijacked on a different topic so i'm gonna go to bed and hopefully let it get back on track. My apologies to the OP

Dave

No need to apologise, Dave. I'm totally cool with the conversation going where folk want to take it. 

[Cuzzie]

28 minutes ago, peteb said:

 

 

To me, the Xotic just has got a classic jazz bass tone.

The clip you have there is more of an exaggerated Jaco tone , I tend to favour the neck pickup more (edit to say that I originally just listened to the first 20 seconds of the clip). Showing a clip of Carmine Rojas or Jorgen Carlsson would probably sound better to Dave. 

I reckon that the nicest sounding passive jazz that I have played was a s/h US Lakland that was in Bass Direct a couple of years ago. I was very much tempted, but I had just bought a really nice Fender Am std jazz a few months before, which had in turn replaced a perfectly good CIJ Fender jazz. 

For a nice classic 70s jazz, pure jazz sound - you will not go wrong with a Sandberg MarloweDK, especially the old shape - now that is a corking bass

[peteb]

12 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Lol! Well @peteb if you can't appreciate that folk have different priorities and they are not necessarily the same of yours...

I must have missed the thread where you were appointed judge of how we spend our money and what we do or don't do with our gear 😂

That’s nonsense, people are more than welcome to use their hard earned money in whatever way that makes them happy. I am just speaking subjectively as someone who has gigged for more than forty years at a reasonable standard.

I don’t want to be too dogmatic about this, we’ve all got a sentimental attachment to various musical instruments. All that I am saying is that my opinion as a long term gigging musician is that you primarily look at basses as tools to do a job!

[peteb]

14 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

For a nice classic 70s jazz, pure jazz sound - you will not go wrong with a Sandberg MarloweDK, especially the old shape - now that is a corking bass

At that price point (about £2k) these days, there is a lot of choice for jazz type basses and most of them are pretty good. 

[Cuzzie]

Just now, peteb said:

At that price point (about £2k) these days, there is a lot of choice for jazz type basses and most of them are pretty good. 

Aye, but when you get second hand for about £900 as I did, it makes it stellar

[peteb]

Just now, Cuzzie said:

Aye, but when you get second hand for about £900 as I did, it makes it stellar

Absolutely! I always buy secondhand. 

[Al Krow]

13 minutes ago, peteb said:

All that I am saying is that my opinion as a long term gigging musician is that you primarily look at basses as tools to do a job!

Ah so, a car is something that gets you from A to B

Never something to collect or appreciate in itself. A car collector has no business collecting high-end cars; he or she should be using them on the school run, even if the Nissan does that job just fine.

It's a utilitarian approach.

Edited January 16, 2021 by Al Krow

[Al Krow]

16 minutes ago, peteb said:

That’s nonsense, people are more than welcome to use their hard earned money in whatever way that makes them happy.

In which case probs best not to describe them as "indulgent" then should they decide not to gig some or all of their basses?

Edited January 16, 2021 by Al Krow

[peteb]

2 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Ah so, a car is something that gets you from A to B

Never something to collect or appreciate in itself. A car collector has no business collecting high-end cars; he or she should be using them on the school run, even if the Nissan does that job just fine.

It's a utilitarian approach. 

I would prefer the word 'professional' (or even 'semi professional')! 

Listen, I've just bought a Stingray that I have always fancied from a mate. The truth is that I don't really need it and may or may not gig it, but I have no intention to sell. I've always liked stingrays (even though I tend not to gig them and have sold them on in the past) and I always thought that his was a particularly nice one. Now I can afford to keep it and will play around the house and gig occasionally when the opportunity arises. However, I have plenty of other basses that I could use instead. 

My attitude has always been if you you like cars, then buy the best one that you can afford. But FFS use it regularly or it's just taking up room on your drive! 

[peteb]

11 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

In which case probs best not to describe them as "indulgent" then should they decide not to gig some or all of their basses?

It's all about attitude. 

Are you a collector, a hobbyist or a player? All are fine, but make a choice... 

[Al Krow]

For me, the key point that you're missing Pete is clear from your thinking of basses as just "tools" to do a job. Yeah for sure they can be just that and I've got a couple of super work-horse basses that do me proud (the OP Yammy being one of them).

But basses are also musical instruments and many high-end basses can also be fantastic pieces of craftsmanship. 

A musical instrument should be played. No disagreement from me on that, but where and when it is played is up to the owner - there is no "directive" that says if you're in a band you MUST gig all your basses. 

A lot of us get a lot of fun playing our basses at home whether we are in bands or not.  As you say "people are more than welcome to use their hard earned money in whatever way that makes them happy".  Amen to that.

[Al Krow]

3 minutes ago, peteb said:

It's all about attitude. 

Are you a collector, a hobbyist or a player? All are fine, but make a choice... 

You've hit the nail on the head and that's where we disagree.

I clearly missed the memo where it said that as a bass player you could only choose to be one. 

[peteb]

4 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

But basses are also musical instruments and many high-end basses can also be fantastic pieces of craftsmanship. 

A musical instrument should be played. No disagreement from me on that, but where and when it is played is up to the owner - there is no "directive" that says if you're in a band you MUST gig all your basses. 

A lot of us get a lot of fun playing our basses at home whether we are in bands or not.  As you say "people are more than welcome to use their hard earned money in whatever way that makes them happy".  Amen to that.

Not going to argue with that. As I said, it's all about your attitude to musical instruments, being a musician, gigging, etc.  

Edited January 16, 2021 by peteb

[LukeFRC]

I've done the thing a few times where a shop has been quiet and cool with me trying everything. (mainly looking at Fender style) - Having done that a few times and then sat and thought about what has been the basses I would actually buy I've always found the higher end Squier stuff to be pretty consistently good. Yamaha also manage to provide amazing bang for buck. Recent Fender stuff IMO I found wasn't as consistent and I've played a lot of "alright" basses where they sound fine but nothing special. I've always liked the AVRI line though and played some crackers. 

In terms of long term basses that the OP is talking about... I had a Warwick Streamer for years, and had a couple of identical looking Japanese Fender Precisions for years.... the precision went to fund my dream GAS bass (early Thumb) which in retrospect was a mistake. But the Thumb was traded for a Sadowsky metro, that I never intended to keep (The thinking was that Sadowsky are a lot simpler to sell than vintage Warwick) but I've played very little else since I got it... and pretty much sold everything else I had from before I had it.