New EBMM Stingray Special Colours and Prices

[Eldon Tyrell]

8 minutes ago, Ian McFly said:

 

BUT, the fact that the UK increase is three times the US one, well that is proper greed indeed. 

or EBMM has indeed higher costs but tries to avoid charging significantly higher prices in the US by charging customers in the UK (and maybe in the EU, still waiting for Thomann's answer) much more instead

[Kev]

46 minutes ago, Ian McFly said:

Surely, there’s also an increase in production costs involved (and supplies as well, ash wood might have become more expensive recently), and the fact they’re producing less so need to make up for it. 
 

BUT, the fact that the UK increase is three times the US one, well that is proper greed indeed. 

The Bongo seems to have had the biggest rise, and its made of Basswood and maple.  Basswood is a cheap wood, and Maple is surely largely abundant.

[mcnach]

15 minutes ago, Kev said:

The Bongo seems to have had the biggest rise, and its made of Basswood and maple.  Basswood is a cheap wood, and Maple is surely largely abundant.

 

I don't think the cost of wood or any of the basic materials is a significant factor.

[Kev]

Just now, mcnach said:

 

I don't think the cost of wood or any of the basic materials is a significant factor.

I know, I agree, just countering previous arguments that it is

[pineweasel]

1 hour ago, Ian McFly said:

Surely, there’s also an increase in production costs involved (and supplies as well, ash wood might have become more expensive recently), and the fact they’re producing less so need to make up for it. 

There's another well known company mass producing guitars and basses in southern California, using the same materials and techniques, and subject to the same Covid related issues, and their prices haven't skyrocketed. 

Edited February 1, 2021 by pineweasel

[Ian McFly]

55 minutes ago, Kev said:

The Bongo seems to have had the biggest rise, and its made of Basswood and maple.  Basswood is a cheap wood, and Maple is surely largely abundant.

Hell, my Sterling by Music Man SUB Ray4 is made of Basswood and Maple.... cost me £350.

[drTStingray]

16 minutes ago, pineweasel said:

There's another well known company mass producing guitars and basses in southern California, using the same materials and techniques, and subject to the same Covid related issues, and their prices haven't skyrocketed. 

If it's the one I think you're talking about, they make, well a gazillion more than almost anyone else, and seem to work on a business model that has a vast inventory made in advance and either in stock or in the supply chain - so it takes many months to 'catch up' with reality. Look back at the availability of ash issue - months if not a year before Fender changed what they were doing - they also seem to carry a vast amount of debt as an organisation - perhaps they're subsidising musicians - I somehow doubt it!!! 

In terms of EBMM it's like trying to compare Ford with Aston Martin or pick your name for a smaller niche manufacturer. 

EBMM is more on a par with PRS. It seems to me like a hike in all instrument prices is very likely across the board as all catch up with the reality of shipping crises, the B word and most of all Covid. It's certainly happened with cars over the last two years. 

Getting the thread back on subject, I'm not taken with most of the new colours - one or two appeal to me. However the prices......... maybe I'll place the order for a Wal after all these years 😬

Edited February 1, 2021 by drTStingray

[Eldon Tyrell]

19 hours ago, pineweasel said:

There's another well known company mass producing guitars and basses in southern California, using the same materials and techniques, and subject to the same Covid related issues, and their prices haven't skyrocketed. 

Oh, slightly off-topic but reading about California and the crazy new prices I can only strongly recommend to anyone who is planning to buy a new Special or Bongo to watch this video 😎

 

[Guest]

20 hours ago, drTStingray said:

If it's the one I think you're talking about, they make, well a gazillion more than almost anyone else, and seem to work on a business model that has a vast inventory made in advance and either in stock or in the supply chain - so it takes many months to 'catch up' with reality. Look back at the availability of ash issue - months if not a year before Fender changed what they were doing - they also seem to carry a vast amount of debt as an organisation - perhaps they're subsidising musicians - I somehow doubt it!!! 

In terms of EBMM it's like trying to compare Ford with Aston Martin or pick your name for a smaller niche manufacturer. 

EBMM is more on a par with PRS. It seems to me like a hike in all instrument prices is very likely across the board as all catch up with the reality of shipping crises, the B word and most of all Covid. It's certainly happened with cars over the last two years. 

Getting the thread back on subject, I'm not taken with most of the new colours - one or two appeal to me. However the prices......... maybe I'll place the order for a Wal after all these years 😬

It is worth mentioning that instrument prices for many manufacturers have been on an upward trajectory for quite a while. Even Fender. If you take the original American Standard P bass from around 2008, it went for about £830. Today a virtually identical bass is almost exactly double the price at £1650. I’ve had both a 2008 original and now a Professional (v1) and I cannot tell the difference. 
However, I don’t get the Ford/Aston Martin comparison. There are tons of stingrays around and the for sale section always has a few. MM has the Sterling series like Fender has Mexican, player and Squier ranges, and at that price point, as others have said, that’s where most of the action is likely to happen for MM in future. They definitely upped their game with the Specials, but having played one, TBH I’d prefer a regular, more production-line instrument as they produced previously at £1500-1600 tops. It’s easy to forget that many indie, hard rock and metal bands not long ago had a Stingray-wielding bass player (as well as top level session guys like Pino and Tony Levin, two of my all-time favourite bass players). I’d be more than happy for them to go custom shop, so long as the pricing represents the choices on offer. For £3K+ I’d expect to choose a wider range of colours, fingerboard, matching headstock, pickups (H, HS, HH, even Big Al setup would be cool) and hardware colour. 8 fixed colour ways on what is essentially the same bass for a lot more money is sadly unrealistic.

[Ian McFly]

Plus, everything is made to order. They don’t produce for stock like Fender does. 
 

So, if you charge that much for an instrument, SURELY you could offer a choice of hardware colour, or fretboard... and some “basic” colours like white... if I fork out £3000 on a bass made to order, I’d like to choose my specs. 

[Eldon Tyrell]

17 minutes ago, Ian McFly said:

Plus, everything is made to order. They don’t produce for stock like Fender does. 
 

So, if you charge that much for an instrument, SURELY you could offer a choice of hardware colour, or fretboard... and some “basic” colours like white... if I fork out £3000 on a bass made to order, I’d like to choose my specs. 

Exactly

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Ian McFly said:

Plus, everything is made to order. They don’t produce for stock like Fender does. 
 

So, if you charge that much for an instrument, SURELY you could offer a choice of hardware colour, or fretboard... and some “basic” colours like white... if I fork out £3000 on a bass made to order, I’d like to choose my specs. 

Actually that’s but currently the case. On speaking to a dealer there are only stock instruments available in 2021. It may change in 2022 but it sounds like very limited stock this year.

[Ian McFly]

Yeah, stock instruments ordered by dealers/local resellers.

But when I ordered a US Sterling in 2016, it took 6/7 months to arrive and was made to order. 
 

Oh and I was able to choose a different pickguard colour.... and only paid £1400 for the bass brand new (but had discount as a friend worked for a music shop). 

[Guest]

Apparently they’re not even being given a choice - they just get an allocation of numbers each quarter but not specific colours so can’t even tell customers what’s coming ahead of time. As you say, you used to be able to do a customer order for something specific. However in the chat on the MM site about their new models, someone asked about a bass in a particular colour, and the cryptic response was that the colour is discontinued but contact customer service if they have a cool idea??

[Ian McFly]

The Ernie Ball forum is the weirdest cult-like forum I've ever seen

If you don't agree with summat there, you're dead.

[eude]

On 01/02/2021 at 09:55, Eldon Tyrell said:

Bongo 4HH Stealth Black £3249

Bongo 4HH Harvest Orange £3249

Bongo 5HH Stealth Black £3349

Bongo 5HH Harvest Orange £3349

Bongo 6HH Stealth Black £3549

Bongo 6HH Harvest Orange £3549

Wait, what?!

[4000]

On 01/02/2021 at 09:55, Eldon Tyrell said:

Bongo 4HH Stealth Black £3249

Bongo 4HH Harvest Orange £3249

Bongo 5HH Stealth Black £3349

Bongo 5HH Harvest Orange £3349

Bongo 6HH Stealth Black £3549

Bongo 6HH Harvest Orange £3549

Is this real????? 😳

[Kev]

36 minutes ago, 4000 said:

Is this real????? 😳

Not sure why this surprises you two so much when a few pages ago a entirely regular Stingray H with a white pickup was £3k 😂 it’s all completely bonkers.

[Wolverinebass]

To be fair, I wonder if the price increases have something to do with this...

http://tenor.com/Yj2t.gif

Edited February 2, 2021 by Wolverinebass

[eude]

Those prices, to me at least, are completely insane for a production line bass, especially given that they don't even have to worry about nice looking bits of wood for the body as they'll be coloured in.

Are people really spending that much money on these things?

Eude

[40hz]

As someone alluded to earlier, this sort of pricing (not even taking into account how much this will invariably rise again in a year or two) surely means the end of Musicman Basses as a viable entity in this country? I can't think of anyone outside of the tiny group of die-hards, who would pay this money for one. 

Luckily the the 2nd hand market is saturated enough to make sure people can pick them up with ease, at sensible pricing.

Edited February 3, 2021 by 40hz

[Kev]

Again, as has been alluded to, if they want to charge that much, they just need to make the Specials “Custom Shop” only.  Not necessarily masterbuilt or equivalent, but certainly open to a wide range of possible specs and modifications based on what the customer/dealer orders, ala Warwick, Dingwall etc.  Otherwise, yeah, it’s a £3k production bass, and I remember how much mockery Rickenbacker used to get for its prices.

[Eldon Tyrell]

13 minutes ago, Kev said:

Again, as has been alluded to, if they want to charge that much, they just need to make the Specials “Custom Shop” only.  Not necessarily masterbuilt or equivalent, but certainly open to a wide range of possible specs and modifications based on what the customer/dealer orders, ala Warwick, Dingwall etc.  Otherwise, yeah, it’s a £3k production bass, and I remember how much mockery Rickenbacker used to get for its prices.

I still think that EBMM, faced with a huge Covid related reduction in production capacity, is probably trying to protect its main market - the US. They want to make sure that they can make enough basses for them at an only slightly increased price. If people outside the US still want MM bass this year, well then they will have to cough up the big money. As @40hz rightly said, only the die-hards, the fanboys and fangirls, the hard-core loyals (buying only one brand) will do so. Looks like EBMM does not really need the regular EBMM buyers from Europe this year but they probably did not want to say: "we are not selling to markets outside the US this year". So, they came up with these ridiculous prices to achieve pretty much the same. I've seen something similar on reverb where some US retailers offer shipment to the UK but ask for ridiculous shipping fees. Again, they are probably not keen on shipping to the UK but instead of banning UK customers, they just charge stupid fees to put them off. Well, that's at least my suspicion.     

[Wolverinebass]

10 minutes ago, Eldon Tyrell said:

I still think that EBMM, faced with a huge Covid related reduction in production capacity, is probably trying to protect its main market - the US. They want to make sure that they can make enough basses for them at an only slightly increased price. If people outside the US still want MM bass this year, well then they will have to cough up the big money. As @40hz rightly said, only the die-hards, the fanboys and fangirls, the hard-core loyals (buying only one brand) will do so. Looks like EBMM does not really need the regular EBMM buyers from Europe this year but they probably did not want to say: "we are not selling to markets outside the US this year". So, they came up with these ridiculous prices to achieve pretty much the same. I've seen something similar on reverb where some US retailers offer shipment to the UK but ask for ridiculous shipping fees. Again, they are probably not keen on shipping to the UK but instead of banning UK customers, they just charge stupid fees to put them off. Well, that's at least my suspicion.     

A very reasonable theory. However, it does have one tiny flaw. After Covid is over and Brexit calms down, do you think the prices will come down?!! They won't. 

[Eldon Tyrell]

12 minutes ago, Wolverinebass said:

A very reasonable theory. However, it does have one tiny flaw. After Covid is over and Brexit calms down, do you think the prices will come down?!! They won't. 

Good point. I have seen it so many times in my work place that "temporary" measures somehow turned into permanent ones. So, yes, I agree, there is a very high probability that the prices will stay like that or go up even more. Not sure if that will be good news for EBMM though.