Couriers - Eye opener

[Lozz196]

That’s pretty much the worst excuse for trying to stiff a customer for extra money that I’ve ever heard. In what possible way can they incur extra costs as a result of that.

[Beedster]

1 minute ago, Lozz196 said:

That’s pretty much the worst excuse for trying to stiff a customer for extra money that I’ve ever heard. In what possible way can they incur extra costs as a result of that.

I suspect that they're having problems with some poorly applied tape catching on their machinery so have decided that they will add a fee to every package that has tape! You can't win can you, too little tape and they charge you to 'fix' the packaging, too much tape and they charge you anyway. Interestingly however, they don't provide any indication of how much tape is the right amount

 

[EBS_freak]

1 hour ago, Beedster said:

I suspect that they're having problems with some poorly applied tape catching on their machinery so have decided that they will add a fee to every package that has tape! You can't win can you, too little tape and they charge you to 'fix' the packaging, too much tape and they charge you anyway. Interestingly however, they don't provide any indication of how much tape is the right amount

 

Thats more of a case of their systems not being fit for purpose for the service they provide. As you say, if they can provide the spec, you can work with that. If they don't... well, that's their lookout. (Or should be).

And yes, I'm still angered by the fact YOU have to take out insurance for THEM to do THEIR job properly. You would hope their own insurance polices would cover such things. But alas. You can see why Amazon are ruling the roost and couriers are missing out... as Amazon, for common transactions, just take all this nonsense away.

Edited March 17, 2021 by EBS_freak

[adamg67]

This is straight from TNTs current terms and conditions, and DPDs are identical:

• Amplifiers And Speakers - maximum Parcel Protection value for damages is £200, up to £2,500 for lost items.
• Apple Mac/Macpro - maximum Parcel Protection value for damages is £200, up to £2,500 for lost items. (iMacs are protected for loss only)
• Banjo/Guitar/Cello/Violin - maximum Parcel Protection value for damages is £100, up to £1,000 for lost items. All musical instruments must be sent in a hard case and boxed.
• Computers - maximum Parcel Protection value for damages is £200, up to £2,500 for lost items. (All in one computers are protected for loss only)

So, as mentioned in other threads, if you send a bass via either of those or others with similar Ts&Cs, pack it so it will survive anything. And don't send anything worth much more than a grand at all and expect your money back if they lose it.

How they can do that is mind bending. 

Edited March 17, 2021 by adamg67

[Downunderwonder]

8 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

And yes, I'm still angered by the fact YOU have to take out insurance for THEM to do THEIR job properly.

Shows fundamental lack of comprehension of what insurance does. What should really get you uptight is that no doubt they are taking a commission on every insurance policy they sell.

They can't insure themselves without raising the cost of all parcels. They would wind up only shipping high value fragile stuff.

[EBS_freak]

17 minutes ago, Downunderwonder said:

Shows fundamental lack of comprehension of what insurance does. What should really get you uptight is that no doubt they are taking a commission on every insurance policy they sell.

They can't insure themselves without raising the cost of all parcels. They would wind up only shipping high value fragile stuff.

Not really. I stated that I don't agree with the way that insurance is provisioned in such circumstances. Not a lack of understanding at all.

If you hired a plasterer to plaster your wall and they ended up putting their foot through your window, they are paying for it, whether out of their own pocket or their own insurance. When you get somebody to plaster your house, you don't get a quote for them with insurance, or without insurance.

Both service industries, different insurance policies.

Of course the prices would go up - but in a rose tinted world, they should look at the processes that are leading to the damage or loss of parcels... after all, we all know how much care couriers take when handling our goods.

[Downunderwonder]

Google ''limited carrier's risk''. It allows the carrier to opt out of the majority of the risks associated with moving your stuff for you. Thus keeping prices down.

Insurance in a nutshell, the same risk cannot be insured twice. One policy is always on the hook.

 

[yorks5stringer]

I've a delivery coming today, it's No 22 of the 69 my Yodel Driver has to deliver today. I've been listening to Jimmy Rodgers tracks all morning...

Given the collection and delivery of any package is outside the direct control of the Courier Company ( i.e. in the hands of self employed drivers) the companies have to mitigate the risk of loss and damage. The fact they can sell you insurance which may or may not cover  you is just another income stream, ker-ching!

[EBS_freak]

11 hours ago, Downunderwonder said:

Google ''limited carrier's risk''. It allows the carrier to opt out of the majority of the risks associated with moving your stuff for you. Thus keeping prices down.

Insurance in a nutshell, the same risk cannot be insured twice. One policy is always on the hook.

 

jeez, you’re a dog with a bone aren’t you?

please reread what I said. I understand the insurance terms - I just don’t agree that they are fair.

And you can insure the same risk twice - just don’t expect to get the pay out twice.

Google “double insurance”

[Beedster]

i see it as a bit like buying a plane ticket and being told that unless you buy extra insurance cover, if the plane crashes your family won't get compensation. However the courier companies try to spin it, they have a professional obligation to get your item from A-B and to compensate you if they don't. The fact that they have now started trying to charge customers for various breaches of what are as far as I can tell entirely unwritten rules that they make up as they go along suggests to me that, as above, their days are numbered as Amazon - with whether you like it or not a far more customer-centric model - slowly takes over the world  

[adamg67]

My take on it, which I think is quite similar to a few others, is that it should be clear what service someone is providing. Courier and parcel companies are making out that they provide one thing, and actually providing something different.

As has already been said, for most business the onus is on the business to insure themselves in case they screw up, not on you. I'm not one to trust any big business, but parcel companies don't stack up against other businesses in terms of what they actually do versus the service most people would expect from them. Yes, buyer beware etc but they try and present themselves as companies you can trust to get your stuff from A to B. The truth doesn't match up to that, they probably will get your stuff from A to B but you have less and less comeback if they don't and they won't care much about it.

[Lozz196]

It looks to me like the increased workload that COVID has caused has made them realise that they have too much work for their existing networks, so in anticipation of making errors are trying all sorts to wriggle out of liability. 

[BigRedX]

As I posted in the "Hermes" thread I've had all sorts of problems with deliveries to my address where I am in all day working, and can see the road (it's a cul-de-sac) from where I work and IME the standard of delivery from everyone except Amazon and Royal Mail/Parcel Force has just gone seriously downhill since the beginning of this year.

They now appear to employing silent ninja drivers, because often the first I know about a delivery is when I get an email saying that my parcel has been delivered. If I'm lucky it's there on my doorstep when I go and investigate.

 

[Beedster]

6 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

As I posted in the "Hermes" thread I've had all sorts of problems with deliveries to my address where I am in all day working, and can see the road (it's a cul-de-sac) from where I work and IME the standard of delivery from everyone except Amazon and Royal Mail/Parcel Force has just gone seriously downhill since the beginning of this year.

They now appear to employing silent ninja drivers, because often the first I know about a delivery is when I get an email saying that my parcel has been delivered. If I'm lucky it's there on my doorstep when I go and investigate.

 

Yep, although I suspect that Amazon or another player must be looking at this poorly organised and increasingly unpopular sector and thinking "We could own that". Have to say that hearing positive about ParcelForce is a new thing, but resonates with my experience recently, and Mrs Beedster just had a lovely driver sort an issue for her. Like Amazon, PF seem to do what it says on the label. I'm really disappointed with the way Interparcel have gone downhill though, sending bills for alleged infringements of their policies without the two things that were absolutely required

1. A statement of the policy in question

2. Photographic proof of the infringement

...is poor. The fact that on both occasions the original; message suggested that the packaging was insufficient suggests they're simply fishing, someone at the depot sees something that s/he doesn't like, and scans the label into a list of offenders, without reference to any clearly communicated policy - for example that no more than 20% of the surface area of the package can be covered in tape or similar (it would still be illogical). In both cases above I sent them proof that there was no problem with the packaging and they withdrew the 'fine' both times. But to my mind any business that can email a customer telling them that they owe them a fine for breach of their T&Cs needs to make damn sure that they have their own house in order first.

 

[rushbo]

Can I just throw DHL into the mix...

Recently, I sent an inexpensive (£130 bitsa) from Dudley to Spalding. Very reasonable fee, I thought. I opted for the "drop off at parcel shop" option to save a few quid and dutifully manhandled my parcel to the local collection point. The nice man at the shop tried to scan in the details, but to no avail. "It's not been working all morning" he said. Bloody, but unbowed, I took the thing to the next closest collection point. Same story. I went home and waited. After a couple of hours, I phoned shop #1. "Yep, it's working now!" came the cheery reply. Back in the car, back to the shop. The device now wouldn't recognise the parcel number.  Went home. Shouted at some things, then tried to phone DHL. Like most of the helplines one rings at the moment, unless your question is "what company am I ringing?" you won't get much of a reply. I tried the "chat" section of their website. After a wait in the queue, I finally got to "speak" to an advisor who said to book it again as a home pick-up and they'd refund my initial payment. Which I did. To be fair to DHL, the collection guy came at exactly the allotted hour the next day and whisked away my parcel. After a bit of communication with the very nice chap I was selling the bass to, he mentioned that he would  be working on the delivery day and would have to pick it up from the depot as I'd specified that the parcel should be signed for at the delivery address. "Aha!" said I. "DHL can divert delivery to an open all hours (ish) parcel shop!"  We found a local  place, I made the adjustment and nervously waited. I tried to track the parcel, but the new shipping number magically stopped working. That evening, the happy recipient told me that the bass had been delivered to his next door neighbour. 

How does that work?

 

Edited March 18, 2021 by rushbo

[EBS_freak]

16 minutes ago, Beedster said:

Yep, although I suspect that Amazon or another player must be looking at this poorly organised and increasingly unpopular sector and thinking "We could own that". Have to say that hearing positive about ParcelForce is a new thing, but resonates with my experience recently, and Mrs Beedster just had a lovely driver sort an issue for her. Like Amazon, PF seem to do what it says on the label. I'm really disappointed with the way Interparcel have gone downhill though, sending bills for alleged infringements of their policies without the two things that were absolutely required

1. A statement of the policy in question

2. Photographic proof of the infringement

...is poor. The fact that on both occasions the original; message suggested that the packaging was insufficient suggests they're simply fishing, someone at the depot sees something that s/he doesn't like, and scans the label into a list of offenders, without reference to any clearly communicated policy - for example that no more than 20% of the surface area of the package can be covered in tape or similar (it would still be illogical). In both cases above I sent them proof that there was no problem with the packaging and they withdrew the 'fine' both times. But to my mind any business that can email a customer telling them that they owe them a fine for breach of their T&Cs needs to make damn sure that they have their own house in order first.

 

There's all sort of shenanigans going on at the moment. Let me show you an interesting paragraph from an email I had from TalkTalk.

So yeah, given the pandemic, I could totally get with that figure... but the property in question has been unoccupied, with the router unplugged for the last year.

[Downunderwonder]

7 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

jeez, you’re a dog with a bone aren’t you?

please reread what I said. I understand the insurance terms - I just don’t agree that they are fair.

And you can insure the same risk twice - just don’t expect to get the pay out twice.

Google “double insurance”

What's generally unfair is the unmet expectation of reasonable care being applied to well packed parcels.

Then we have these cowboys slapping upcharges on.

Some of the insurance policies seem very difficult to get a payout on after rough handling wrecks well packed stuff.

But the principle of owner insuring stuff in transit is sound.

[Downunderwonder]

5 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

There's all sort of shenanigans going on at the moment. Let me show you an interesting paragraph from an email I had from TalkTalk.

So yeah, given the pandemic, I could totally get with that figure... but the property in question has been unoccupied, with the router unplugged for the last year.

I would forward that to the fraud squad.

[EBS_freak]

33 minutes ago, Downunderwonder said:

I would forward that to the fraud squad.

You think that anybody in the position to act upon this sort of thing cares enough to do anything about it? The only way this would get traction is if 100 odd people wrote to watchdog. The thing is, that sentence, for the vast majority is believable... only in my case, I know 100% that it is false. Of course, it would be up to me to prove so... and how do I do that when I haven't got access to the usage logs from the servers that are generating the logs. I would have to do a personal information request to pull all that detail... and what would the outcome really be? I'm not going to get compensation - because I have not lost anything. So if I am not out of pocket, what am I really complaining about? A false statement that has no consequence?

All it does is cause me to question their scruples. And they probably don't care what I think about them anyway. 

Edited March 18, 2021 by EBS_freak

[EBS_freak]

37 minutes ago, Downunderwonder said:

What's generally unfair is the unmet expectation of reasonable care being applied to well packed parcels.

Then we have these cowboys slapping upcharges on.

Some of the insurance policies seem very difficult to get a payout on after rough handling wrecks well packed stuff.

But the principle of owner insuring stuff in transit is sound.

Agree in most part. I've been on the wrong end of a claim - where a 2k set of IEMs went missing... they were never found. They got to Florida airport and then went missing in FedEx's secure compound.

I'd paid the postage and insurance - which cost over £100. It probably cost me 30+ hours of time (that obviously I don't get paid for) to get the claim resolved in my favour and paid out.

They stock up everything against you to avoid a successful claim, more so than an normal insurance claim. The documentation and links aren't readily available. They demand information with deadlines on time to respond other wise the claim is null and void - yet when it comes to them responding to me, there is no SLA. It's all in the T&Cs but this is where it all gets interesting.

The problem is, is that you aren't dealing with an insurance company - you are dealing with a self regulated claims department in a courier company - and in that case, my contract was not with FedEx. It was with Parcel Force that had subcontracted to FedEx. Parcel Force said I needed to take up the matter with FedEx. I refused. I did not have a contract with FedEx. FedEx said the value and nature of the item meant that it wasn't covered by their insurance. Then all of a sudden, the IEMs became re-classed as a musical instrument in their attempt to invalidate the claim. You can imagine the fun and games. They were then saying that the IEMs had no value because they were custom made for me and they had no market price. Then the claims handler went on holiday for a fortnight... and nobody would respond to emails... and if I answered the phone, I would tell the claims number and then they would just put me on hold - with no intention of dealing with the claim. It took a solicitors letter to get that claim resolved - at further expense. I am convinced that if that solicitors letter had not have landed, they would have fobbed me off until I lost my mind and gave up.

Couriers. * sigh *

 

Edited March 18, 2021 by EBS_freak

[Beedster]

3 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

Agree in most part. I've been on the wrong end of a claim - where a 2k set of IEMs went missing... they were never found. They got to Florida airport and then went missing in FedEx's secure compound.

I'd paid the insurance - which cost over £100. It probably cost me 30+ hours of time (that obviously I don't get paid for) to get the claim resolved in my favour and paid out.

They stock up everything against you to avoid a successful claim, more so than an normal insurance claim. The documentation and links aren't readily available. They demand information with deadlines on time to respond other wise the claim is null and void - yet when it comes to them responding to me, there is no SLA. It's all in the T&Cs but this is where it all gets interesting.

The problem is, is that you aren't dealing with an insurance company - you are dealing with a self regulated claims department in a courier company - and in that case, my contract was not with FedEx. It was with Parcel Force that had subcontracted to FedEx. Parcel Force said I needed to take up the matter with FedEx. I refused. I did not have a contract with FedEx. FedEx said the value and nature of the item meant that it wasn't covered by their insurance. Then all of a sudden, the IEMs became re-classed as a musical instrument in their attempt to invalidate the claim. You can imagine the fun and games. Then the claims handler went on holiday for a fortnight... and nobody would respond to emails... and if I answered the phone, I would tell the claims number and then they would just put me on hold - with no intention of dealing with the claim. It took a solicitors letter to get that claim resolved - at further expense. I am convinced that if that solicitors letter had not have landed, they would have fobbed me off until I lost my mind and gave up.

Couriers. * sigh *

 

Sorry to hear it, but none of it surprises me

[EBS_freak]

2 minutes ago, Beedster said:

Sorry to hear it, but none of it surprises me

It turned out OK in the end though - despite the ball ache, I got the pay out in the end and now sporting some IEMs that I prefer the sound of. But as I say, I would wager most people would not have got the same result.