Trickfish vs Barefaced - Any thoughts?

[Cuzzie]

I’ll chime in on the build side, most of the comments on BF were about the tolex covering (it is part of the build I get that) but I don’t think I have heard anything about structural integrity being a problem.

I do occasionally chat with a chap who uses Trickfish across amp and cans and he has a good ear, so would trust his opinion on them being good.

To help with the conundrum if any Trickfish owners are around Bristol and want to compare directly I would be happy to loan out my BF cabs.

Question - is there anywhere in europeshire that stocks both to do a comparison?

There is that Netherlands bass shop that has them, Andertons has BF now (dunno if they have TF) and let’s hope it’s not the usual 2 dial twiddling guys doing the reviews with little foresight into detail and too much chatter

[51m0n]

Not used a Trickfish cab, but ended up returning their 1k because it wasn't as loud as a markbass sa450 IME. Just my experience, and no doubt not everyone else's, it did have a great tone mind. I also really didn't like the way the eq centres reset every time you power it on. In fact I'd say that that was one of the shitiest eq interface designs I've ever used in that regard.

Not really helpful in the thread but hey, maybe I love the sound of my own fumbly typing 🤔

Went to a EA iAmp Classic, hell of a tone, very very loud, pushes a huge amount of air with a Big Twin 2. The big change tonally from the sa450 was how much more depth gets thrown out. It is harder to hear on stage as a result sometimes if I'm honest.

 

Sorry for the derail 😆, I'll get me coat....

 

[Dan Dare]

11 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

Barefaced use thinner wood than most other manufacturers, so you could argue that the bracing is to counteract the flex that would otherwise not be present in their competitor's cabs. The bracing could be more of a consequence of their other design choices rather than an advantage over competitor cabs that have less bracing.

It's the other way around. The principle point of complex bracing in cabs is not to provide strength. It is to cancel and/or control panel resonance, break up standing waves by interrupting the internal space and manage/control airflow in the cab. A braced cab means that you can achieve strength with thinner, lighter timber. The lightness is a consequence (and a benefit) of that. Honeycomb structures are widely used in engineering to give strength without the need to resort to expensive, high-tech materials or to add bulk and weight.

[Steve Browning]

11 hours ago, Cuzzie said:

I’ll chime in on the build side, most of the comments on BF were about the tolex covering (it is part of the build I get that) but I don’t think I have heard anything about structural integrity being a problem.

I do occasionally chat with a chap who uses Trickfish across amp and cans and he has a good ear, so would trust his opinion on them being good.

To help with the conundrum if any Trickfish owners are around Bristol and want to compare directly I would be happy to loan out my BF cabs.

Question - is there anywhere in europeshire that stocks both to do a comparison?

There is that Netherlands bass shop that has them, Andertons has BF now (dunno if they have TF) and let’s hope it’s not the usual 2 dial twiddling guys doing the reviews with little foresight into detail and too much chatter

I see the Gallery advertises both makes. Are they worthy a quick call or email?

The only other thing I can say is that the Trickfish site appears to give some guidance about the type of sound for which the cab is suited.

[EBS_freak]

8 hours ago, Dan Dare said:

It's the other way around. The principle point of complex bracing in cabs is not to provide strength. It is to cancel and/or control panel resonance, break up standing waves by interrupting the internal space and manage/control airflow in the cab. A braced cab means that you can achieve strength with thinner, lighter timber. The lightness is a consequence (and a benefit) of that. Honeycomb structures are widely used in engineering to give strength without the need to resort to expensive, high-tech materials or to add bulk and weight.

On Alex’s own website, where he goes into details about the bracing, its primary purpose is to strengthen. He only then goes onto to talk about panel resonance and disturbing the airflow inside the cabs. Of course there are plenty of cabs out there with and without bracing which are all held in high regard. Just because a cab does not have the same approach to BF when it comes to internal bracing doesn’t mean it’s necessarily worse design.

Just to remind, I said-

“Barefaced use thinner wood than most other manufacturers, so you could argue that the bracing is to counteract the flex that would otherwise not be present in their competitor's cabs. The bracing could be more of a consequence of their other design choices rather than an advantage over competitor cabs that have less bracing.”

If you read, I suggest that other cabs may have thicker wood used in their construction which leads to a need for less bracing for strength - but note that I also say “less bracing”, not “no bracing”. It’s fair to say, other cabs can be using less bracing for just sonic purposes - where other cabs rely on bracing for both strength and rigidity as well as sonic purposes.

Edited January 25, 2021 by EBS_freak

[thebassist]

On 21/01/2021 at 10:54, Sibob said:

Hi all,

Bit of a long-shot this, but does anyone have any experience comparing Trickfish and Barefaced cabs?
Specifically (but not exclusively, all thoughts welcome), their various 12" cab options in a gig setting.

Many thanks
Si

Would it be possible for you to go to the bass gallery and A/B test them at volume?

I’ve had and gigged two Trickfish TF112 cabinets and I liked the sound a lot but I sold them because they were too heavy for me at 36lbs.

[Sibob]

2 hours ago, thebassist said:

Would it be possible for you to go to the bass gallery and A/B test them at volume?

I’ve had and gigged two Trickfish TF112 cabinets and I liked the sound a lot but I sold them because they were too heavy for me at 36lbs.

I might plump for a TF112 and see how I feel about them vs my Midget.

We’ll see

Si

[EBS_freak]

11 minutes ago, Sibob said:

I might plump for a TF112 and see how I feel about them vs my Midget.

We’ll see

Si

What is it that you are tying to improve upon? I'm pretty sure that a TF won't give you anything extra to what you are already getting out of the midget? (ugh hate that word, again not the best choice of name; it has very negative connotations)

[Sibob]

57 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

What is it that you are tying to improve upon? I'm pretty sure that a TF won't give you anything extra to what you are already getting out of the midget? (ugh hate that word, again not the best choice of name; it has very negative connotations)

Not looking to improve as such, just explore some other tones/options from a company I have a lot of time while making sure I’m not ‘losing’ anything.

Si

Edited January 25, 2021 by Sibob

[M@23]

53 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

What is it that you are tying to improve upon? I'm pretty sure that a TF won't give you anything extra to what you are already getting out of the midget? (ugh hate that word, again not the best choice of name; it has very negative connotations)

Agreed. Unbelievable that they’d choose to name a product that way. 
I’ve no great experience of either manufacturer, but didn’t like the Barefaced I’d used. It’s all so subjective isn’t it. I’ve had Vanderkley and Bergantino and EBS which were great and better on paper than Markbass stuff, but Markbass always just worked for me. Technically, more basic and ‘not as well designed’ but just happened to for the bill for what I wanted in a function band rig. Saying that, it depends what amp you use and what you want. Since I went Helix I’ve been able to have it all!

[Cuzzie]

It’s a Super Midget but not sure if you think that makes it worse.

Midget in its purest definition just means small, or tiny - it’s only language/society which has turned it perjorative.

Should the MG/Daihatsu midget car or midget gem sweets suffer the same gripes?

Midget submarine, Midget Crabapple?

There was a time when the C word was non offensive as it was just a derivative of the Latin word to describe the area, until Shakespeare  turned it on its head and the rest is history.

The TF will I am sure will be good but may not better the SM

[EBS_freak]

13 minutes ago, Sibob said:

Not looking to improve as such, just explore some other tones/options from a company I have a lot of time while making sure I’m not ‘losing’ anything.

Si

That's fair enough I guess! Tone is the subjective variable so yeah, I guess you have to have a shootout to see which works best for you. One man's tone and all that... 

[EBS_freak]

1 minute ago, Cuzzie said:

It’s a Super Midget but not sure if you think that makes it worse.

Midget in its purest definition just means small, or tiny - it’s only language/society which has turned it perjorative.

Should the MG/Daihatsu midget car or midget gem sweets suffer the same gripes?

Midget submarine, Midget Crabapple?

There was a time when the C word was non offensive as it was just a derivative of the Latin word to describe the area, until Shakespeare  turned it on its head and the rest is history.

The TF will I am sure will be good but may not better the SM

Don't really want to derail the thread but I will only say one thing on the matter - and that's from a business pov...

Why, when there's not a shortage of names in the world, would you name a product as such, where as you say, there are pejorative connotation associated with it? There was a time in the UK when the N word was commonplace. Don't think any cab manufacturer would argue that naming a cab that word would be commercial suicide.

The examples you have given above are historical. I don't think that anybody from a marketing position would push the word in today's society.

 

If you don't get it - watch this - https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000rh4p/targeted-the-truth-about-disability-hate-crime - without breaking the cycle, things can't improve.

 

Right, back to cabs.

 

[Cuzzie]

35 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

Don't really want to derail the thread but I will only say one thing on the matter - and that's from a business pov...

Why, when there's not a shortage of names in the world, would you name a product as such, where as you say, there are pejorative connotation associated with it? There was a time in the UK when the N word was commonplace. Don't think any cab manufacturer would argue that naming a cab that word would be commercial suicide.

The examples you have given above are historical. I don't think that anybody from a marketing position would push the word in today's society.

 

If you don't get it - watch this - https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000rh4p/targeted-the-truth-about-disability-hate-crime - without breaking the cycle, things can't improve.

 

Right, back to cabs.

 

I do get what you are saying and get the business of breaking the cycle, honestly I see the worst in most things but it never occurred to me in this instance about it being a pejorative term about stature as there are so many other ways it has been used as a descriptive word.

 The N word is a bad one to use and reference and you actually do your argument, statement and message you are trying to get across a real disservice.

I cannot think of an instance where it isn’t and wasn’t always an offensive term. Doesn’t make the naming of this particular cab right, more right or less wrong, but it’s a world apart from that example.

[Cuzzie]

And it wasn’t purely historical, deliberately so, I believe the Midget Crabapple plant is still called that, or the Dwarf crabapple.

Dwarf hamster is still a breed

Midget gem sweets are still being sold

[EBS_freak]

Just now, Cuzzie said:

And it wasn’t purely historical, deliberately so, I believe the Midget Crabapple plant is still called that, or the Dwarf crabapple.

Dwarf hamster is still a breed

Midget gem sweets are still being sold

Indeed. But they weren't named in recent years. Just like the MG and the Daihatsu weren't.

If you don't get it, it seems you never will.

[EBS_freak]

5 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

I cannot think of an instance where it isn’t and wasn’t always an offensive term. Doesn’t make the naming of this particular cab right, more right or less wrong, but it’s a world apart from that example.

Dambuster's dog. The book, Ten Little N..s.

 

End.

 

Back to cabs.

[EBS_freak]

Cuzzie - I can see you are typing. Save it for a DM and not this thread.

[Cuzzie]

🤦🏾‍♂️

[molan]

I spoke to Trickfish a lot in their early days and was really impressed by their professionalism, enthusiasm and dedication to bringing new products to market that ‘worked’!

I found Richard Ruse to be a great guy and genuinely inspirational to work with. It was such a shame that he left us early and didn’t see all of his vision come to fruition.

I’m afraid I’ve only heard their cabs at demo volume and, of course, we all know that’s nothing like a gigging environment.

However, I certainly know who I’d spend my money with as the rest of the team there seem to share Richard’s genuine dedication to delivering a class product for the gigging bassist 😉

Edited January 25, 2021 by molan
Clarification.

[Cuzzie]

@Sibob I reached out to a guy I chat to who is a good musician with very decent ears and uses TF stuff, and he had the following to say, which may or may not help!

The TF 12” are definitely  the least coloured cab of the range

The 4x8 is inherently bright even with the horn off

The cabs probably pair best with the TF amp

He uses dual 1x12 to play in decent sized venues no PA support and it’s not an issue

The low end seems to roll off quicker than he would like but it’s not too much of a problem.

Dont shoot the messenger! That’s some things I got with basic questions

Hope it helps

[Sibob]

3 hours ago, molan said:

I spoke to Trickfish a lot in their early days and was really impressed by their professionalism, enthusiasm and dedication to bringing new products to market that ‘worked’!

I found Richard Ruse to be a great guy and genuinely inspirational to work with. It was such a shame that he left us early and didn’t see all of his vision come to fruition.

I’m afraid I’ve only heard their cabs at demo volume and, of course, we all know that’s nothing like a gigging environment.

However, I certainly know who I’d spend my money with as the rest of the team there seem to share Richard’s genuine dedication to delivering a class product for the gigging bassist 😉

I have played hundreds and hundreds of gigs with my Barefaced cabs, and find them to be more than a class product.

Similarly I find Trickfish to be an excellent group of humans with what looks like a number of class products, very much looking forward to diving in and expanding my amp/cab options. I already have the Minnow pedal and that sounds fantastic!

Si

Edited January 25, 2021 by Sibob

[Marty Forrer]

One point to consider which no-one seems to have mentioned. BF cabs throw the sound out, probably more than any cab I've ever come across, including the mighty Ampeg 8x10! I have zero experience with TF, but plenty with BF. The sound the audience hears from a BF cab is almost always louder than the bass player hears. I discovered this after watching videos of my band's live performances. I was horrified to hear how much the bass was too loud, throwing the band balance out. Next gig I used a wireless to go to the back of the venue and set the balance. Back on stage I was amazed how much quieter I could be. 

I have no idea whether TF have this same ability, but it's worth considering for a bass player trying to bring stage volume down.

Sorry O/P, this has no relevance to your question.

[M@23]

13 minutes ago, Marty Forrer said:

One point to consider which no-one seems to have mentioned. BF cabs throw the sound out, probably more than any cab I've ever come across, including the mighty Ampeg 8x10! 

Really? 
For what sort of gig? I’ve used more Ampeg 8x10s than Barefaced, but I find that hard to believe. That wall of sound you get from an 8x10 surely can’t be replicated by a 2x12?

[EBS_freak]

8 hours ago, Marty Forrer said:

One point to consider which no-one seems to have mentioned. BF cabs throw the sound out, probably more than any cab I've ever come across, including the mighty Ampeg 8x10! I have zero experience with TF, but plenty with BF. The sound the audience hears from a BF cab is almost always louder than the bass player hears. I discovered this after watching videos of my band's live performances. I was horrified to hear how much the bass was too loud, throwing the band balance out. Next gig I used a wireless to go to the back of the venue and set the balance. Back on stage I was amazed how much quieter I could be. 

I have no idea whether TF have this same ability, but it's worth considering for a bass player trying to bring stage volume down.

Sorry O/P, this has no relevance to your question.

You do realise that a video camera mic is a terrible way to assess bass balance in a band?