Indonesian Made

[tegs07]

My main instrument for a while now has been a Sterling Ray34.

For the price band I think the build quality is superb. I also got to try an Indonesian made G&LTribute not long ago. It wasn’t a bass I would buy but only because it was a bit complex (L2000) but again fabulous instrument for the cash.

This has got me thinking. Is this the golden age for Indonesian instruments much as late ‘70’s and ‘80s were for Japanese instruments and will they be future classics?

The Indonesian economy is growing and over time costs will go up as labour and production costs rise so presumably the costs of the instruments made will either have to rise or the quality drop to keep pace?

I have yet to try a Lakland but have to say they look amazing... maybe now is the time to get one as a keeper?

Edited January 23, 2021 by tegs07

[fretmeister]

The Ibanez Premium line are Indonesian made too.

I've had a couple and they've been excellent.

[diskwave]

I own two lowly Indo Vintage Modified P's after a lifetime of playing this and that. One of them is so good its crazy. Lightweight, with a perfect neck and with the SD PU's as standard. For the price its both stunning and playable but still deemed a beginners instrument..and I would love to see myself at Glasto on stage with it.

[yorks5stringer]

I think a lot of the Indonesian stuff is still made by Cort who have been doing Squiers there for many years. However here's a PRS video from Indonesia  from more recent times.

 

Edited January 23, 2021 by yorks5stringer

[TheLowDown]

Almost all of the best made gear these days is in places like Indonesia, Vietnam, Korea, China. It's where the talent is.

[Guest]

I've been wondering why Yamaha built their factory for cheap acoustics in China and the one for cheap basses in Indonesia. Will it to be with the different kinds of wood needed and where good supplies of them are? 

[fretmeister]

3 minutes ago, TheLowDown said:

Almost all of the best made gear these days is in places like Indonesia, Vietnam, Korea, China. It's where the talent is.

It's more that the overheads are lower when running the identical CNC machines that they use everywhere.

[TheLowDown]

19 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

It's more that the overheads are lower when running the identical CNC machines that they use everywhere.

That's only one of many reasons, and not the most important one. It's where the talent and supply chains are closely grouped together.

Edited January 23, 2021 by TheLowDown

[la bam]

The korean made spector I have is hands down the best made and assembled bass I've ever had. I'd have no problem with and bass from the cort factories etc

[tegs07]

Does anyone own or tried a Lakland  Skyline (particularly a 44-64)?

I am beginning to struggle a bit with thicker necks and one of these may suit me perfectly?

[Mykesbass]

43 minutes ago, yorks5stringer said:

I think a lot of the Indonesian stuff is still made by Cort who have been doing Squiers there for many years. However here's a PRS video from Indonesia  from more recent times.

 

There was a lot of controversy over Cort's move to Indonesia.

http://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_national/891184.html

 

[TheGreek]

Guitars ceased to be "hand-made" a long time ago so it nolonger requires a craftsman to make one, merely a machine operator.

If you want a hand crafted instrument for a reasonable price go to one of the luthiers on this  forum.

[Japhet]

I've got an Indonesian Lakland and it's a real quality piece of kit. Conversely, I've played American Fenders anf Gibsons that have been garbage.

[tegs07]

5 minutes ago, TheGreek said:

Guitars ceased to be "hand-made" a long time ago so it nolonger requires a craftsman to make one, merely a machine operator.

If you want a hand crafted instrument for a reasonable price go to one of the luthiers on this  forum.

I don’t think anyone is debating that these are luthier built instruments. Just commenting on the fantastic build quality for the price paid.

[TheGreek]

I agree - I have Indo made Laklands, G&Ls amongst others.

The point I was making is that it doesn't really matter where basses are made anymore - hence not being able to understand the premium we pay for US built instruments - anybody can nail them together. 

The builders in Korea/ Indonesia/ China can all do it to a satisfactory level once trained.

[Barking Spiders]

I have a Peavey Cirrus BXP, a Cort GB64 and  Sterling SUB Ray 4, all made in Indonesia. Got absolutely no beef with the quality of workmanship at all. In fact I'm not sure why some players still have a bias towards  US and European-made. 

[diskwave]

6 minutes ago, TheGreek said:

I agree - I have Indo made Laklands, G&Ls amongst others.

The point I was making is that it doesn't really matter where basses are made anymore - hence not being able to understand the premium we pay for US built instruments - anybody can nail them together. 

The builders in Korea/ Indonesia/ China can all do it to a satisfactory level once trained.

Totaly agree plus you can still find "good ones" the same way now and again one can find a "good" Fender.

[tegs07]

1 minute ago, TheGreek said:

I agree - I have Indo made Laklands, G&Ls amongst others.

The point I was making is that it doesn't really matter where basses are made anymore - hence not being able to understand the premium we pay for US built instruments - anybody can nail them together. 

The builders in Korea/ Indonesia/ China can all do it to a satisfactory level once trained.

That brings me back to the is this the golden age debate?

Multi nationals churn stuff out at the cheapest cost possible.. where labour laws change and the economy grows ... margins increase and costs rise.
So is Indonesia in the transitional stage that Japan was in the 80’s rapidly moving away from mass production to high tech and high-end goods?

If so do the price of these instruments rise or does production move elsewhere,  making the ones left on the second hand market more desirable in the future?

[Ian McFly]

I have a SUB Ray4 made in Indonesia. The building quality isn't bad at all, the neck and frets are nicely done for a £350 bass. The only "issue" with this instrument is that the neck wood feel kind of cheap in the hand, you can tell it's not premium maple, but that's normal for the price after all. Also, I don't know if it's due to the construction or the basswood body, but it doesn't "resonate" as well as my alder basses, when playing unplugged.

I guess that for more expensive indonesian made basses, if the woods are a bit better, then the building quality can certainly be trusted.

[Lozz196]

30 minutes ago, TheGreek said:

I agree - I have Indo made Laklands, G&Ls amongst others.

The point I was making is that it doesn't really matter where basses are made anymore - hence not being able to understand the premium we pay for US built instruments - anybody can nail them together. 

The builders in Korea/ Indonesia/ China can all do it to a satisfactory level once trained.

I think it’s that better parts are used as the reason for the higher costs, but in no way in my opinion are said parts of such greater quality that the difference in price is justified. I just wish I could break that hoodoo of “having” to have US made Fenders. 

[la bam]

I had a g&l l100. That was superbly built too.

[Barking Spiders]

19 minutes ago, Lozz196 said:

I think it’s that better parts are used as the reason for the higher costs, but in no way in my opinion are said parts of such greater quality that the difference in price is justified. I just wish I could break that hoodoo of “having” to have US made Fenders. 

This is the thing. I know the woods and components used in US-made Stingrays are better than Indonesian made SUB Ray 4s, but not by a factor of 8 - 10 as the price difference suggests.  If I was a professional player then I'd go for the real deal but as I'm a hobbyist and occasional dep player I can't justify it.

Edited January 23, 2021 by Barking Spiders

[tegs07]

Just now, Barking Spiders said:

This is the thing. I know to the woods and components used in US-made Stingrays are better than Indonesian made SUB Ray 4s, but not by a factor of 8 - 10.  If I was a professional player then I would go for the real deal but as I'm a hobbyist and occasional dep player I cant justify it.

I don’t think the woods and hardware are that different in the more expensive Ray34’s though.. I would attribute the majority of the price difference to cost of manufacture... particularly labour cost, health and safety, sick pay, pensions, health care etc etc.

I have a US Ray and a Sterling Ray34. There is a difference but not double the price (2021 price nearly triple).

[Dad3353]

Cort guitars are apparently made from American tilleul and maple, in Indonesia and China. The bodies are from the same woods as US-made guitars.

[TheLowDown]

1 hour ago, Barking Spiders said:

 In fact I'm not sure why some players still have a bias towards  US and European-made. 

Mostly bigotry and naivety. People automatically assume made in somewhere in the East is cheap and nasty. The truth in 2021 is that that if it's made in the USA or Europe, it's most likely expensive garbage riddled with quality control issues. There is actually very little that is made in Europe or USA even if it says so on the label. The laws surrounding what constitutes a Made in USA or Made in Britain label for instance are typically vague and lax, and it's perfectly lawful to make everything in China or India and then ship it over to the USA to package it up with a "Made in USA" label.

Many people buy good ol' British made or "made by Uncle Sam himself" goods because they left their opinion in the 1970s. It's much easier to tar groups and nations with the same brush for reasons of simplicity, and they truly believe that when they buy British or American they're getting a well made product by union jack wearing employees, and retailers play heavily on this perception and use it as a means to jack up their prices.

Personally I would much rather have my bass made by a talented, enthusiastic, and efficient workforce than slackers who do a half arsed job because they hate their job and are just there to pay the bills or while studying at uni.