6” driver recommendations/suggestions?

[Bass Wielder]

I’m actually considering using my Hartke B150 practice amp for small gigs (whenever that happens again), with electric and double bass...when there’s either space restrictions, load/travel issues or when management wants to see next to nothing but expect to hear ac/dc😎.. (exaggeration alert).

Sounds great at low volume and I have little jam sessions with my kids on it.

I replaced  the driver with a ‘cheapie’ brand with supposed decent spec and it did improve handling and volume. Small victory! Yes!!!

So.....dangerous thinking....what’s out there that could perhaps bring it to the pro level (within reason of course). 
 Hartke specs: http://www.samsontech.com/hartke/products/combos/b-series-combos/b150/

Edited January 23, 2021 by Bass Wielder

[casapete]

Without wishing to sound dismissive, I honestly think you’d be better to put any money you were thinking of swapping speakers in your combo towards a combo thats a bit more gig worthy. There aren’t many gig situations that a 15 watt combo will handle for either electric or upright IMHO. You’d be better with something at least 100 watts plus, and there are other threads on here with recommendations as to what’s best. Personally I’d go for a Fender Rumble combo - I’ve got the 100 watt model and it will cope with small gigs just fine, so long as the drummer isn’t a maniac. Good luck, cheers.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Agreed, 100w and a minimum 10 inch speaker is the least that I'd consider. That may seem like a big jump, but to sound twice as loud as 15 watts you need 150.

[Hellzero]

Thanks @Bill Fitzmaurice.

Edited January 24, 2021 by Hellzero

[Phil Starr]

I don't know if this will be helpful but I recently knocked my old practice amp about in just the way you are proposing, the details are here A House Jam Combo - Build Diaries - Basschat

I'm coincidentally currently eyeing up my Harke Kickback with the intention of seeing what can be squeezed out of that, mainly to see if I can save some weight as it's a heavy little thing for it's performance. It has a 100w amp though and a 10" speaker.

I swapped the internal speaker for a Fane 6-100 which I had bought as a mid range driver. 6" 100W. You have two problems; using a 6" speaker means limited cone area so bass output and efficiency are traded and a tiny cab volume. Using a low power amp means you need very high efficiency to get adequate volume. I think I've got close to the limits with my build and so will you. The tone I've got is very bass light, much better than I started with but much less than my live rig, the volume is adequate for practice with an acoustic jumbo guitar and unamplified singing indoors. With a bit of compression of the signal and some fierce bass filtering below 80Hz you can get some extra volume and you might do an open mic night with it but that's it really. you might be able to get an extra couple of db from a better speaker but you'd be into something esoteric and costly to do that. As a practice amp though it's now great, enough bass not to sound tinny but loads of low mids and plenty of detail to show up every error I make with quite an aggressive but satisfying sound. It just won't go loud enough. 

With a double bass, I'm not sure if you'd add anything to the acoustic sound, probably a subtle enhancement of the mids but that would be it. It was fun to do but not for the uses you want to put it to. 

[Bass Wielder]

Great answers so far guys....

I have both a pro 10” combo and a passive cab so I’m aware of the difference in efficiency and quality, but both too big, and heavy for the situations mentioned.

Bearing in mind that I’m not wanting to spend the earth on anything else....or have even more gear lying around....

Science lessons aside (not dismissing), the volume created at home is quite substantial (in a decent sized living room).... a bit of cracking up with the original speaker, both improved with the cheap replacement. So my suspicions tell me with a better handling driver there is a bit more improvement to be had. Indeed the real question is, what driver would be the best choice to take a chance on?

Never been a snob about bass gear so I’ve tried a lot of stuff over the years and this particular practice amp/combo caught my ear. Forgot to mention that I added a compression driver (squeezed in) and I can even get a decent slap tone now.

 

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

One can't recommend a different driver without knowing what you have now. But don't hold you breath about a different driver being significantly better. The main difference between inexpensive and very expensive is how much power a driver can handle before exceeding both electrical and mechanical limits, and with only 15 watts you're probably already there.

[agedhorse]

To add to Bill’s comment, generally as the power handling increases, sensitivity decreases because to increase low frequency power handling, trades offs are made that decrease the sensitivity. This can be offset but it adds a lot of cost and the driver is no longer “cheap”.

[Dan Dare]

For small, good quality bass drivers, you really need to be looking at makes like Volt, which won't be cheap. They will also take a fair bit of driving and you have limited power at your disposal. Bill's and casapete's advice above is the better and more economical option. Something like the smaller Rumble will be light, compact/easy to carry and inexpensive.

[casapete]

4 minutes ago, Dan Dare said:

For small, good quality bass drivers, you really need to be looking at makes like Volt, which won't be cheap. They will also take a fair bit of driving and you have limited power at your disposal. Bill's and casapete's advice above is the better and more economical option. Something like the smaller Rumble will be light, compact/easy to carry and inexpensive.

Absolutely.

May be best for the OP to look at rationalising his gear and getting something small and compact that will do most gigs, especially if it's not too heavy. 

[Bass Wielder]

Ah the taste of defeat.....

much thanks and regards....

[Balcro]

In general, there isn't much choice for 6 / 6.5 inch drivers giving a good bass response. Add to that your diverse needs -  needing a solution for double bass as well - and the search results are meagre.

As Phil Starr mentioned above, there is the FANE Sovereign 6 100. Bill Fitzmaurice (in his post from about an hour ago) makes the critical point; what have you got now? I'll add 2 more; what's the internal volume of the box? My guess is about 7-10 litres. Secondly, are there any ports to the box. If we know that, then there may be an alternative, but don't expect "agedhorse's" comments not to ring true. 

[Phil Starr]

7 minutes ago, Bass Wielder said:

Ah the taste of defeat.....

much thanks and regards....

just to keep the conversation going I had a quick look. The Beyma 6cmv2 Beyma : Beyma 606CMV28 :: £33.29 IN STOCK (24 Jan 2021) (bluearan.co.uk) at £33 looks about as good as you can do in terms of value for money, unless you want to really spend, in which case there's a BMS driver you could buy at £110. I can't imagine why you would do that though you'd still be limited by the size of the cab and the 15W maximum output from the amp.

If you want to do some irreversible surgery then you might be able to squeeze in an 8" speaker. As @Balcro says what do you have now? Are there any ports? There may be marginal gains here but don't expect miracles.

[Bass Wielder]

Ok...back after having a cry😅

This helped with specs?: http://www.samsontech.com/hartke/products/combos/b-series-combos/b150/

This is what I put in: https://www.thompsonsltd.co.uk/technology-car-audio-and-technology-midrange-and-midbass-speakers/paw6.1.8-bassface-paw6.1-160w-6.5-17cm-8ohm-midrange-bass-woofer-single.html

The idea of an 8” is enticing....but I’ll have to weigh up the task/cost/improvement results.

Like I said above, I already own the thing...like the sound...hence the post...why not?😎

[TheGreek]

Have you thought about a TE Brightbox? It is a 4x5" cab which works very nicely, TYVM.

They don't come up very often but IIRC there was one for sale in the classifieds here before Xmas.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

That driver isn't all that bad. To get something significantly better you'd pay at least three times as much, and with only 15 watts you wouldn't know the difference anyway. An eight would work better, but not in that cabinet. Look at your bass. It doesn't have a 24 inch scale, it doesn't have a .052 E string. That's because the scale length must be long and string diameter must be large to create long wavelength low frequency tones. The same physics of sound dictate that low notes at club levels from tiny speakers do not come.

[Bass Wielder]

1 hour ago, TheGreek said:

Have you thought about a TE Brightbox? It is a 4x5" cab which works very nicely, TYVM.

They don't come up very often but IIRC there was one for sale in the classifieds here before Xmas.

I’ll pass....thanks🙀
https://reverb.com/uk/item/36448830-trace-elliot-bright-box-90s?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=1726164661&utm_content=campaignid=1726164661_adgroupid=70264195649_productpartitionid=852934651604=merchantid=137679352_productid=36448830_keyword=_device=m_adposition=_matchtype=_creative=391637461803&gclid=Cj0KCQiA0rSABhDlARIsAJtjfCdsE52p9Liy3a0-0BnMk_don5QXkVM_2pg0SFfmmgHLV0Wb3TUBjNMaAlkMEALw_wcB

[Phil Starr]

It's an OK speaker but designed for car use, the specs are  bit dubious as they quote sensitivity as both 98dB which is high and 91.5 in the T/S parameters which is what you'd expect from this sort of unit. It probably has higher output at higher frequencies which is where they get the 98db figure from.  They quote Fo as 114Hz which is well above bottom E at 41Hz so this is going to be well down on bass output  but as Bill says it's not all that bad. 

You aren't going to get something that matches your double bass in terms of volume out of a 15W amp in a small box like this. You could get a little more output and slightly better bass response out of the Beyma I linked you to. The beyma would be suitable for a ported cab which would also help a little. None of this is going to be dramatic though. I think at this point you need to decide if you are driven enough by curiosity and the need for a project to want to see how good this little amp can be and then decide if £33 is worth it to satisfy the question. This is a bit like adding a second carburetor to a Morris Minor, it will go faster but it'll still be a Morris Minor

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

If you just look at the specs it seems worse than it is. I modeled it and it's not bad. In a sealed box it's considerably better than the Beyma, which has too low a Q to work well sealed.

[stevie]

Just dipping into this, but if the OP is trying to get the most out of a 6-inch driver and a low powered amp, sealed isn't the way to go.

[Bass Wielder]

Based on the above comment, the combo in question is sealed, I’m not an expert so forgive any naivety with the following...

If this is valid, is there a way then to a add a simple port that could aid a suggested  driver to achieve somewhere near its intended purpose?

If not valid, then I guess I’ll have to take my chances with it sealed...

I’ll say this, the combo is staying, it’s what can be done to it, hoping for a positive result, is the project.....let’s see👍🏽

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Ported with a suitable driver might work better with at least 60 watts. With 15 watts it won't. You're in the realm of asking if it's worthwhile to put a set of Dunlop racing tires on an Nissan Qashqai. You may, but it won't go any faster.

[Downunderwonder]

Or trying to make a silk purse out of a mouse ear.

[agedhorse]

7 hours ago, Phil Starr said:

It's an OK speaker but designed for car use, the specs are  bit dubious as they quote sensitivity as both 98dB which is high and 91.5 in the T/S parameters which is what you'd expect from this sort of unit. It probably has higher output at higher frequencies which is where they get the 98db figure from.  They quote Fo as 114Hz which is well above bottom E at 41Hz so this is going to be well down on bass output  but as Bill says it's not all that bad. 

 

 

Agreed, the 98dB sensitivity spec is suspect as both the No and TS sensitivity specs are much lower and agree with each other (at least for some form of broadband data set)

[funkydoug]

Always enjoy learning from threads such as this where this group of experts share views and approaches to a real world problem. It's a great read.

 

However ... Is this the moment BFM finally went full Yoda??

14 hours ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

The same physics of sound dictate that low notes at club levels from tiny speakers do not come.