adriansmith247 Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 (edited) Hi I have had this lovely bass for a while but one thing has always bugged me about it. The E string sounds weaker and less punchy than the others. I have experimented with pu height and even had a replacement fitted years ago. Original in loft somewhere does this pickup look right or do I need a wider pickup? You could see the poles in the old pu and the E was not running over it. String spacing is 19mm although I have tried moving them all over towards the G. This helped a bit but not enough any ideas? Or pickup suggestions? Edited January 24, 2021 by adriansmith247 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itu Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 You can try to tune the E a whole step lower to make it "softer". Then finger the string from let's say 15th fret and play it while bending the string towards the A-string. Is the level changing substantially? If you can hear a real change, then probably your pickup isn't wide enough. One way is to measure the pickup magnet(s). A film gives a good approximation of the field size of the magnet(s). EMG has had a similar magnetic viewing film: https://www.amazon.com/CMS-MAGNETICS-Magnetism-Applicable-Including/dp/B000UV6ZPS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adriansmith247 Posted January 25, 2021 Author Share Posted January 25, 2021 Thanks itu. Sounds like a plan. I will give it a go. That method of detecting magnetic fields is pretty cool. I had not seen that before Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeftyJ Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 Since you have a Schaller roller bridge on it, you can also adjust the string spacing there by moving the E-string roller further to the right. The effect may be more noticable this close to the pickup than it is when you move the string sideways higher up the neck. Most of these closed-cover humbuckers from Shadow have blade style magnets instead of individual pole pieces, which should reach pretty close to the edges of the casing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adriansmith247 Posted January 25, 2021 Author Share Posted January 25, 2021 Thanks Lefty. I am back onto experimenting with string spacing and pu height. Good to know what is under the Shadow casing. I had assumed they were separate pole pieces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adriansmith247 Posted January 26, 2021 Author Share Posted January 26, 2021 Thanks for the responses. I am going to try fitting the original Shaller pickup at the weekend and have a really good go at experimenting with pu height. The spacing on those poles is around 20mm so that pu should be OK. It has just been in storage for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassBod Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 From memory, those big Schallers are really very good - the adjustable spacing on the bridge should give you enough shuffle space to get it sorted. If its still a problem, then think about the Bartolini MM replacements, as they come up used sometimes. Might need a bit of routing, but nothing too horrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoonBassAlpha Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 Is that an active bass, and can it be switched to passive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorris Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 On 24/01/2021 at 21:58, itu said: You can try to tune the E a whole step lower to make it "softer". Then finger the string from let's say 15th fret and play it while bending the string towards the A-string. Is the level changing substantially? If you can hear a real change, then probably your pickup isn't wide enough. One way is to measure the pickup magnet(s). A film gives a good approximation of the field size of the magnet(s). EMG has had a similar magnetic viewing film: https://www.amazon.com/CMS-MAGNETICS-Magnetism-Applicable-Including/dp/B000UV6ZPS Does anyone have a UK source for this or an equivalent. Looks interesting - I just don't want to pay basically the same for shipping as the thing itself 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorris Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 For the OP - Apologies if this appears basic - but have you tried with different string brands etc, in case it's a string issue. What are those strings on there in the pics. Having said that I think I have something similar, maybe not as marked, on a Hohner B2A. Pickup and string options are somewhat limited on that given pickup dimensions and double ball end strings for headless. Secondly - on the bass itself - I see it's the Wilkes fretless but with metal plates for percussive slapping etc. Not for me tbh - but takes me back to Stoke-on-Trent when I was a student there and the local Wilkes was making a name for his instruments in the Bass world. IIRC he pulled back from going full on 'commercial' but kept on producing what he wanted to do in a small scale way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adriansmith247 Posted January 31, 2021 Author Share Posted January 31, 2021 rmorris. Thanks for the feedback. I have tried a few string types over the years. These are Pyramid flats. They are old, so a new set may improve things. The volume difference is only minor and I am getting good results by moving the string over the pole piece more. The metal bits are pretty cool looking I think. I have never, and would never slap this bass, but I assume that is their purpose. There is also a piezo pu underneath the heal of the neck to help with the percussive sound. A lovely bass all round. I don't think it is meant to be thwacked, so playing it softly seems to work really well. Lots of mwahhh! I have just refitted the original Schaller pickup and the overall output level is huge in comparison to the Shadow. This is one powerful pickup Bassbod, thanks for the pu tip. I may try one of those MM pickups at some point if one comes up. The roller bridge adjustment is useful, although I am now getting less than 19mm spacing. It works out but I may try a wider pickup in future, if I don't have to hack around too much to fit it. Moving the string over does make a difference, as does plucking downwards with my thumb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adriansmith247 Posted January 31, 2021 Author Share Posted January 31, 2021 Moon bass alpha - it is a passive bass with a coil tap switch and an additional piezoelectric pickup. Nice range of tones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adriansmith247 Posted February 1, 2021 Author Share Posted February 1, 2021 @rmorris - what strings? a basic question that I thought would not be an issue. I just did a quick search on another popular bass forum and have found that the Pyramid Gold flats are known to have a dead sounding E string. This may explain a few things, and certainly won't be helping. I'll pop on an old set of TI Flats to see what happens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorris Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 Yes - it always seemed an odd - though interesting idea - percussive plates on a fretless. Maybe a case for 'Pressure Wound', 'Half Ground' or 'Ground Wound' strings. Are they still a 'thing' ? They seemed quite a thing last century but maybe not so much now or maybe I was just playing more back then ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adriansmith247 Posted February 3, 2021 Author Share Posted February 3, 2021 I have been in touch with Doug Wilkes. He confirmed that the bass is all original and suggested a few thing to help with the setup. Here it is with original Schaller pickup and TI flats fitted. Sounds and plays beautifully now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorris Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 Good to hear. Can you tell us what Doug Wilkes advised re Setup ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adriansmith247 Posted February 7, 2021 Author Share Posted February 7, 2021 Just that he had never noticed any reduction in volume on the E. Get the string adjusted over the pickup and adjust the pu height until everything sounds good. To be honest, I have only been using the bass for unamplified noodling for years, only taking to gigs when I could squeeze it in somewhere. I mostly play double bass. The strings I had on there sounded great apart from the low E, which I didn't really realise for some reason. Also, I was trying to set this bass up with 19mm spacing, which was too wide Now I am debating getting the body refinished by Doug, which would improve the looks a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorris Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 22 hours ago, adriansmith247 said: Just that he had never noticed any reduction in volume on the E. Get the string adjusted over the pickup and adjust the pu height until everything sounds good. To be honest, I have only been using the bass for unamplified noodling for years, only taking to gigs when I could squeeze it in somewhere. I mostly play double bass. The strings I had on there sounded great apart from the low E, which I didn't really realise for some reason. Also, I was trying to set this bass up with 19mm spacing, which was too wide Now I am debating getting the body refinished by Doug, which would improve the looks a lot. Thanks. So what is the 'correct' string spacing on that bass / pickup ? re: refinish - is it the 'original' finish atm - subject to wear'n'tear ? What is it in terms of surface finish - oil / varnish etc. - can't really tell from a photo. Are you looking to' refurbish ' the current finish or something different ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adriansmith247 Posted February 8, 2021 Author Share Posted February 8, 2021 The current spacing is 17mm and is at the limit of the roller adjustment on the bridge. It is very easy to play When I got the bass over 25 years ago the previous owner had stripped the body and painted it purple. With purple paint and varnish! I stripped it and finished with a dark oak furniture varnish. On reflection that wasn’t the best idea but it was cheap and it looks ok. I wanted it to look like a Wal bass. I think a pro finish would make all the difference to this bass as I think it is a real classic and probably sought after. Sunburst could be the way to go but I am not sure. Still debating it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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