Filter preamp advice

[Wolverinebass]

Hi Peeps! Hope someone is quite good with electronics and on board preamps can help me with this.

I'm at the moment in conflabs with a luthier about a new bass. I decided on a filter type setup. One for each pickup. However, I want the ability to treat both pickups differently. Kind of like Alembic Series 1 or the Ric-o-Sound features on the 4003.

So, the person who sells the filters has agreed to sell me the filters without the blend and master volume. No problem.

What I'd like is to have filter and volume for each pickup (pickup selector switch as well) with a stereo out as well as a mono out so I'm not tied to a Y cable a la Billy Sheehan.

Can anyone help me with this? The luthier wants to have dual output (one jack output for each pickup) and I'd like the ability to use the bass in mono as well if I have to. Whether that's having a stereo jack or one that can be switched between stereo and mono I am open to ideas.

I'd appreciate any advice and suggestions anyone may have.

[itu]

Some ideas seen:

Philip Kubicki - Ex-Factor: It has a rotary switch for OFF/STD-BY/ON/ON.

Potentiometer(s) with a switch for Active/Passive.

Some special jacks have switches in-built, but the choice for M/S (and battery) is not obvious or simple.

A tiny switch built to jack plate.

A hidden or low-profile switch to the back plate.

[Hellzero]

Christophe LEDUC is making what he's calling The Smart Output Jacks and is exactly what you need (works with active or passive circuitry) : http://www.leduc.fr/index.php/autres/electroniques/auto-stereo

[BassBunny]

18 hours ago, Wolverinebass said:

I'm at the moment in conflabs with a luthier about a new bass. I decided on a filter type setup

Just as a matter of interest, who is the luthier? 

[three]

Have a look at the Alembic Club site - Alembic Anniversary electronics do what you're looking for (found on the Alembic Brown Bass).  Alembic uses a single jack and a small switch for S/M operation - it's possible to use a mono or stereo jack cable.  I really like the sound of what you're aiming for - good luck with it, the electronics shouldn't be too difficult to assemble  

Edited February 15, 2021 by three

[itu]

If you want to make the system slightly more complicated to carry around, put the power and mixing outside the bass. Like Alembic has that power box. You can put 9 VDC riding to the same stereo audio cable and take it out with simple capacitors at both ends. This is common with video signals, too.

[Woodinblack]

Go the old ric way and have a mono and a ric-o-sound output!

[Woodinblack]

17 hours ago, Hellzero said:

Christophe LEDUC is making what he's calling The Smart Output Jacks and is exactly what you need (works with active or passive circuitry) : http://www.leduc.fr/index.php/autres/electroniques/auto-stereo

Seems a bit complicated for a couple of sockets?

At this risk of upsetting the gods..

 

[Hellzero]

But the Ric-O-Sound arrangement won't work with active circuitry @Woodinblack... 😉

[Hellzero]

I'm checking the 9 pins jack with its 2 switches that will work with the Ric-O-Sound.

[Wolverinebass]

1 hour ago, three said:

Have a look at the Alembic Club site - Alembic Anniversary electronics do what you're looking for (found on the Alembic Brown Bass).  Alembic uses a single jack and a small switch for S/M operation - it's possible to use a mono or stereo jack cable.  I really like the sound of what you're aiming for - good luck with it, the electronics shouldn't be too difficult to assemble  

Thanks. I actually own an Alembic Stanley Clarke Signature Standard as well as a Wal. I remember playing a brown bass many years ago and really liking it, but went for the Standard because it just felt right. Probably a mistake in hindsight. However, it's just a change in shape I'm after.

[Wolverinebass]

17 minutes ago, Hellzero said:

I'm checking the 9 pins jack with its 2 switches that will work with the Ric-O-Sound.

Does it? Will it need a switch to the 9 pin stereo? Yeah?

[Woodinblack]

43 minutes ago, Hellzero said:

But the Ric-O-Sound arrangement won't work with active circuitry @Woodinblack... 😉

Of course it would - you would just need to get a couple of switched stereo sockets to handle the power requirements.

Edited February 15, 2021 by Woodinblack

[Woodinblack]

51 minutes ago, Hellzero said:

I'm checking the 9 pins jack with its 2 switches that will work with the Ric-O-Sound.

These - https://guitarelectronics.com/9-pin-1-4-stereo-jack-for-guitar-bass-w-dpdt-switch/

that is the sort of thing you need (actually an overkill but available)

Then you tie the dpdt normally open connections in parallel to the battery negative (or actually positive if you wanted to, but lets stick to convention) and bob is your older relative. no need for anything more complicated than that

 

Edited February 15, 2021 by Woodinblack

[Hellzero]

1 hour ago, Hellzero said:

I'm checking the 9 pins jack with its 2 switches that will work with the Ric-O-Sound.

 

52 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

These - https://guitarelectronics.com/9-pin-1-4-stereo-jack-for-guitar-bass-w-dpdt-switch/

that is the sort of thing you need (actually an overkill but available)

Then you tie the dpdt normally open connections in parallel to the battery negative (or actually positive if you wanted to, but lets stick to convention) and bob is your older relative. no need for anything more complicated than that

 

Urm, urm, is it the Stop posting without reading thread ? 

And your description is missing the shunt connection of the mono output to work correctly...

Edited February 15, 2021 by Hellzero

[three]

2 hours ago, Wolverinebass said:

Thanks. I actually own an Alembic Stanley Clarke Signature Standard as well as a Wal. I remember playing a brown bass many years ago and really liking it, but went for the Standard because it just felt right. Probably a mistake in hindsight. However, it's just a change in shape I'm after.

The basses you have explain your desire for a new filter system - you have two of the most lovely filter-based pres I've encountered there!  I'm a big fan of SCs too (Wals not so much - love the thought and look of them but those that I've have never really worked for me).  I'm looking forward to seeing the new bass when it's done!  

[Woodinblack]

1 hour ago, Hellzero said:

 

Urm, urm, is it the Stop posting without reading thread ? 

I replied to your comment that it wouldn't work to inform you there would be no problem with it working, then I noticed your reply after I had commented and added the link to the 9way socket that you mentioned but didn't link, so I linked to it. NOt sure of the problem. I don't see anywhere else it was linked?

 

Quote

And your description is missing the shunt connection of the mono output to work correctly...

My comment? I didn't mention shunts. Or do you mean the ric circuit? I didn't check it all, I assumed as it was the ric diagram that is how it worked, if it doesn't, I appologise for them!

My whole point is it is a solved problem that isn't hard to do without some fancy circuits. Or the other, even easier way, you just put one socket and a mono/stereo switch, I think that is what I would have if I wanted dual output.

Edited February 15, 2021 by Woodinblack

[Wolverinebass]

1 hour ago, Woodinblack said:

I replied to your comment that it wouldn't work to inform you there would be no problem with it working, then I noticed your reply after I had commented and added the link to the 9way socket that you mentioned but didn't link, so I linked to it. NOt sure of the problem. I don't see anywhere else it was linked?

 

My comment? I didn't mention shunts. Or do you mean the ric circuit? I didn't check it all, I assumed as it was the ric diagram that is how it worked, if it doesn't, I appologise for them!

My whole point is it is a solved problem that isn't hard to do without some fancy circuits. Or the other, even easier way, you just put one socket and a mono/stereo switch, I think that is what I would have if I wanted dual output.

So, just to be clear on this. I could use a 9 pin stereo jack with a switch to go from mono to stereo? As you can all tell, I just play basses, not do any more than rudimentary wiring changes. Which means the volumes for each filter can be wired straight to the jack?

I presumed the diagram above wasn't an official one as there is no pickup selector switch on it?

[Woodinblack]

27 minutes ago, Wolverinebass said:

So, just to be clear on this. I could use a 9 pin stereo jack with a switch to go from mono to stereo?

Your options are:

1. you can have a have a two normal jacks to have rick-o-sound, but you need some way to turn power off.

2. You can use 2 of the 9 pin jacks to have rick-o-sound - one mono, one stereo socket.

3. you can use 1 of the 9 pin jacks with a small switch to switch between mono and stereo.

 

I would say, 1 is not a great option because you will forget. 2 is a good option in that you know whether you have mono or stereo depending on what you plugged into, but obviously takes two sockets and you have to remember which is which. 3 gives you one socket, and a switch, although you will have to remember which way is stereo and which is mono, and in stereo mode if you plug a mono plug in you will be missing a pickup.

Probably 3 is easier, but remembering the switch way up is a bit of a pain (I have this on my chapman stick and I can never remember which way is which).

27 minutes ago, Wolverinebass said:

As you can all tell, I just play basses, not do any more than rudimentary wiring changes. Which means the volumes for each filter can be wired straight to the jack?

Depends on how you will wire the filter. If the volume is after the preamp (which would make sense), then yes. And if you have the switch, then it would just join the outputs together and stop it being shorted out by the socket.

27 minutes ago, Wolverinebass said:

I presumed the diagram above wasn't an official one as there is no pickup selector switch on it?

Yes, it is the official diagram, but just for the output socket, the pickup selector is before the volumes and tones, and that circuit is from the volume output onwards.

 

[Hellzero]

Here is the whole layout :

Edited February 15, 2021 by Hellzero
Layout is better than schematic

[Hellzero]

I made you this clear schematic to get a Ric-O-Sound for your active bass with two 9-pin jacks. You can modify it to have two mono outputs instead, I mean one output for each pickup.

[Hellzero]

And here is Billy Sheehan's wiring. In case you'd want to use it with your active circuitry, simply replace the mono output jacks by stereo output jacks and wire the battery negative to both rings. That's all.

[Wolverinebass]

@Hellzero this is superb. Thank you so much my dear boy.

[jazzyvee]

On 15/02/2021 at 10:48, Wolverinebass said:

Thanks. I actually own an Alembic Stanley Clarke Signature Standard as well as a Wal. I remember playing a brown bass many years ago and really liking it, but went for the Standard because it just felt right. Probably a mistake in hindsight. However, it's just a change in shape I'm after.

I have recently about 3 weeks ago got an upgrade for my stanley clarke signature bass so that I could have separate pickup outs and separate volumes for each pickup and filter. It came with the pickup selector switch and mono stereo output switch and jack. It works great. Have you thought of converting yours?

[Wolverinebass]

37 minutes ago, jazzyvee said:

I have recently about 3 weeks ago got an upgrade for my stanley clarke signature bass so that I could have separate pickup outs and separate volumes for each pickup and filter. It came with the pickup selector switch and mono stereo output switch and jack. It works great. Have you thought of converting yours?

I did think about it and decided against it. Where did you get your mod from just out of curiosity?