4-string with octave pedal instead of 5-string?

[Caz]

Hi everyone, I've been learning a lot of classic pop songs over lockdown and am hoping to join a cover band when gigs resume. But some of these tunes require a lower string - Uptown Funk, Get Lucky etc. And a few of them go down to low Eb like Beat It, and sound less fat to do up an octave. So I started thinking about maybe getting a 5-string Jazz bass. I know some of these tunes like Beat It can be done by de-tuning - and apparently there's a drop-D tool that exists so you can do that quickly on a gig. Although then the intervals on the fretboard will be confusing.

I play a 4-string P-bass which I really like, and with a 5-string would just have to mute the low string 99% of the time. So I was thinking about getting an octave pedal, and playing these tunes up an octave then dropping the sound with the octave pedal. I've tried a BOSS OC-3 which sounded nice. For people who play in cover bands - how do you approach this, and can you suggest any decent octave pedals to play these tunes on 4-string please?

Thanks,

Caroline

[Bunion]

I never really got on with 5 string bass either even though I gigged with one for a few years, it was just a thumb rest for 99% of the time. 
if your looking for a decent octave pedal the micro pog has great tracking and also octave up and down so you can get a sweet 8 string or 12 string sound. 
but I think your best bet might be  hipshot D Tuner. 
 

 

[Al Krow]

Hi Caroline. I've been a huge fan of octave pedals but I'd actually say don't go for your suggested approach! You may well find the octave pedal glitching and / or having "latency" issues (i.e. not perfectly in sync with the original note played) and the tone will also likely be changed by the octave pedal from the P bass tone you really like.

I wouldn't rule out a 5 string, as it:

• allows you to play a number of songs an octave down, as compared to a 4 string, particularly those in Eb, D and C (I've not come across too many in the key of B);
• it makes swapping to a different key a whole lot easier; 
• there are a bunch of fretboard positional benefits from a 5 string and you'll be surprised how often you make use of the notes on the low B string further up the fretboard as well, not just the low Eb and below.

Alternatively, maybe get yourself a decent pedal to detune your 4 string into a lower key e.g. Digitech Drop comes recommended.

Edited February 17, 2021 by Al Krow

[JohnDaBass]

Hi Caroline, I understand your vision but before taking that route why not consider investing in a set of BEAD strings. When I joined a band who needed a low B for a number of their cover versions I considered investing in the 5 string bass. Borrowed one from a mate for a while only to realise 5's just weren't for me.  Put a set of Labella BEAD on one of my Fender P basses with DiMarzio Split P Pups and everything fell into place. Having a BEAD P & and a EADG P at gigs made a great deal of sense and maintained my tone throughout the set. 

[SpondonBassed]

40 minutes ago, Caz said:

I play a 4-string P-bass which I really like, and with a 5-string would just have to mute the low string 99% of the time.

Not so.  A five string will give you a greater choice of positions from which to play.  You needn't travel up and down the neck as much.

[alyctes]

Consider either tuning the bass down a tone or using a different bass with that tuning for those songs.

[pineweasel]

I've been playing covers for years using a Precision fitted with a drop tuner, and I've been really happy with it. The Hipshot drop tuner is a marvellous thing, and I've never found it too confusing to use, as I would employ it only for specific songs that I'd learnt in drop D. The only issue is forgetting to reset the E string for the next song!

For Uptown Funk I used an Aguilar Octamiser, which can produce a fat, organic sub-octave. I have other octave pedals but that was the best one for that job, and it was OK playing it like that.

However... with lockdown scuppering all foreseeable gigs, I took the opportunity to buy a decent 5-string and I have to say that I really like it for playing the typical covers repertoire. No need to mess about with tuning or pedals, and the ability to play some songs more efficiently thanks to the extra fingering choices is useful. I've learnt quite a few new songs on the 5 now and plan to use it when I start gigging again. It helps that my 5 is a high quality instrument which is a pleasure to play. 

The caveat to this is that I have yet to do any serious rehearsal or any gigs with the 5. It might all go wrong, and I'll go back to the trusty Precision. Hopefully I'll find out later in the year.

 

[hiram.k.hackenbacker]

Right tools for the job I'm afraid. If you're going to be playing those types of tunes and you want to do it authentically, you'd be best getting a fiver.

That said, I find some tunes easier to play in drop D on a four, like Beat It for example.

Judging by that video, you'll pick both up in no time.

[bassfan]

Plenty of good and sensible advice as always here....I don’t play a fiver and manage ok with my trusty 4 strings, mainly because I’m to lazy to learn a five. 😂 there’s only really been one song I needed to drop for that we couldn’t make work in the band so I bought a digitech drop pedal for 24karat Magic. Works a treat and cheaper than a 5 String.  

Edited February 16, 2021 by bassfan

[Doddy]

I use octave pedals all the time, but I wouldn't recommend one for what you want. Octave pedals generally work best if you want it to double a higher octave part (think Guy Pratt on Earth Song, or Pino on I'm Gonna Tear Your Playhouse Down), or to get a synth style sub sound, like John Davis or Tim Lefebvre. They won't just make your bass sound a nice clean octave lower without changing your tone.

If you are going to be playing a lot of songs that need those lower notes, then you're going to be better off looking at a 5 string. If you only need the odd low Eb or D, then a Hipshot Xtender Key will do everything you want.

You should still get an octave pedal though. They're awesome.

[jrixn1]

I've alternated over the years (in the same function band) with 4- and 5-string basses, and either is fine.  I recently sold my 5-strings and now only own 4-string P basses (without octave pedals or detuning).  Low notes are fun to play, but a P bass is also fun to play. 

[jrixn1]

2 hours ago, Caz said:

And a few of them go down to low Eb like Beat It, and sound less fat to do up an octave.

You don't have to play the whole thing up an octave.  It could work out just playing just the first note up.

[SpondonBassed]

10 minutes ago, jrixn1 said:

You don't have to play the whole thing up an octave.  It could work out just playing just the first note up.

Pink Floyd's The Wall Pt II just doesn't sound right like that though.  You need the drop D at least.

[BillyBass]

14 minutes ago, SpondonBassed said:

Pink Floyd's The Wall Pt II just doesn't sound right like that though.  You need the drop D at least.

My band does this (and a few other songs that go lower than E) and I'm either going to buy the hipshot Xtender or go the 5 string route.  I don't want to manually detune or bring two basses.

[MartinB]

Bear in mind that although a song may not go below E in its original key, your singer may sound better singing it in a different key. When I was doing covers, I think there was only one song we played that would have originally required a 5 string - but I still ended up using the Eb and D a lot on songs that we'd transposed down a bit. Though I will say that the low B, C and Db very rarely got any use!

[chris_b]

5 hours ago, Caz said:

I play a 4-string P-bass which I really like, and with a 5-string would just have to mute the low string 99% of the time.

Unfortunately that is a very common approach. If you did that you wouldn't be getting the best out of your 5 string bass.

[Cato]

10 hours ago, Caz said:

Hi everyone, I've been learning a lot of classic pop songs over lockdown and am hoping to join a cover band when gigs resume. But some of these tunes require a lower string - Uptown Funk, Get Lucky etc. And a few of them go down to low Eb like Beat It, and sound less fat to do up an octave. So I started thinking about maybe getting a 5-string Jazz bass. I know some of these tunes like Beat It can be done by de-tuning - and apparently there's a drop-D tool that exists so you can do that quickly on a gig. Although then the intervals on the fretboard will be confusing.

I play a 4-string P-bass which I really like, and with a 5-string would just have to mute the low string 99% of the time. So I was thinking about getting an octave pedal, and playing these tunes up an octave then dropping the sound with the octave pedal. I've tried a BOSS OC-3 which sounded nice. For people who play in cover bands - how do you approach this, and can you suggest any decent octave pedals to play these tunes on 4-string please?

Thanks,

Caroline

As mentioned by Alcytes above the easy solution is just to downtune the whole bass a single tone so it's in DGCF.

The octave down pedal thing will work too but the technology doesn't always work perfectly, there can be a bit of latency between playing the note and the octave being generated, generally not much but it can be enough to throw off your timing.

They can also even be a bit pitchy and because a lot of octavers are monophonic there can also be an issue if you let two or more notes sound at the same time,  either deliberately or accidentally, say through sympathetic resonance.

If you do decide to go the pedal route it might  be worth posting in the Effects section of this Forum. Plenty of pedal heads there will be able to advise on the best pedal for the job you want to do.

Edited February 17, 2021 by Cato

[lownote]

I've been a 5 or 6 string sort of chap almost since I got sucked into this bass thing.  I do find the B useful for all the reasons given.  My one caveat, confirmed by my old bass teacher who knew his stuff, is that with a multistring you have to place the note, even if that comes fairly naturally after a while. Somehow with a 4 you can just go for it, making playing more organic, easier and fun.  

[NancyJohnson]

Not a fan of octave pedals, I owned an EBS unit a while back and while it was OK with higher notes, but once you dug into the E string it was quite underwhelming; problematic tracking and you'd get this odd double note thing.  If you can live with this then fine, otherwise you'll be spending more time concentrating on when it needs to be on and off.

So you have other options.

D-tuner.  I've got these fitted to my Spector and Aria Primary.  They work fine, but the E-String does go a bit sloppy.  Use sparingly.

Buy a five string.  I'd say it's always useful to have one; while I'm predominantly a four-string guy, nearly all my recording work is on a five-string.  Better than a D-Tuner.

Going BEAD. Decent option if you're not busy slapping/pulling the G-string, otherwise you're going to have to be very busy up the dusty end.  Remember you'll possibly need to adjust the nut slots to accommodate the wider strings and you may need to tweak the truss rod to keep the neck straight.

Buy a Kubicki Ex-Factor bass (which resolves all the issues beautifully;

All these cost ££.  Weigh up how much you need those extra notes and decide what suits. It's all a personal choice; you could even try a heavier string gauge and tune down to DGCF and capo across the second fret to play off a standard EADG tuning.

Too many options.

Edited February 17, 2021 by NancyJohnson

[scalpy]

It’s the same situation in my function band. It’s a compromise- I have a five string but most gigs it’s a P bass with an octave pedal, MXR octave. I’d rather have the bass I prefer playing for 90% of the tunes, keep the momentum between songs without having to ponce around changing basses and it’s a cliche - the audience will not give a flying monkeys.

[acidbass]

I use the pitch shift feature on my HX Stomp to shift all the notes down 5 semitones, have a patch specifically for this which I flick to when I need that low B.  The tracking is excellent.

[Doddy]

1 hour ago, NancyJohnson said:

Not a fan of octave pedals, I owned an EBS unit a while back and while it was OK with higher notes, but once you dug into the E string it was quite underwhelming; problematic tracking and you'd get this odd double note thing.  If you can live with this then fine, otherwise you'll be spending more time concentrating on when it needs to be on and off.

You can't just stick an octave pedal on and expect it to just play everything an octave lower. They don't work like that, especially on bass. 

Most analogue octavers, like the OC2 or EBS, will start to glitch around a low A. Apparently the MXR will get a bit lower, as will digital pedals like the Sub n Up and the POG (although I prefer the sound of analogue octavers). When playing up the neck I've never had any issues with tracking.

It's like any pedal, they work best if you learn their idiosyncrasies and how they react to your playing and other effects.

[MacDaddy]

Hi Caz, a bit of a decenting voice from me!

My Shuker's have the extra 2 frets like the Kubicki's, but even so I've found that for noodling around at bedroom levels my Digitech bass synth wah, does a good enough job at my attempts at Uptown Funk.

Before buying a 5 string, I would suggest getting a decent bass synth pedal - most have an octave function - rather than a dedicated octave pedal, and try it. If it doesn't do what you want you shouldn't lose money if you move it on.

Remember, it's what works for you.

 

 

 

[NancyJohnson]

1 hour ago, Doddy said:

You can't just stick an octave pedal on and expect it to just play everything an octave lower. They don't work like that, especially on bass. 

Most analogue octavers, like the OC2 or EBS, will start to glitch around a low A. Apparently the MXR will get a bit lower, as will digital pedals like the Sub n Up and the POG (although I prefer the sound of analogue octavers). When playing up the neck I've never had any issues with tracking.

It's like any pedal, they work best if you learn their idiosyncrasies and how they react to your playing and other effects.

This is my point.  Because of the units shortcomings, an octave pedal will force you into playing stuff in (an unnatural?) higher register and/or having you switch it off when you hit a lower register.

[fretmeister]

If I'm using a 4 string then I use a Digitech Drop to turn my usual EADG tuning into BEAD when I need it.

But most of the time I'll play a 5 string if I need that range.

 

Another option is to tune the bass to BEAD all the time and relearn the 4 string stuff for higher up the neck. But that only works if you don't need the upper frets on the G string. No "Sir Duke" then!