diskwave Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 (edited) Tis an interesting subject. Have to say my new CV 70's P bass dispels the myth about body woods needing to breath etc. Its got bags of sustain and sounds great and all happening under a thick coat of poly... I think good tone is more to do with the finished item being a solid unit rather than whether or not it started off as a single piece of wood. If a laminate/plywood is constructed from a hard wood with glue that cures hard then whats the difference between that and my CV P with a multi piece body....and finished in a rock hard thick coating. Surely its about the end result being a very solid inert finished body....certainly seems that way with my CV. Edited February 21, 2021 by greavesbass 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooky_lowdown Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 4 minutes ago, greavesbass said: Tis an interesting subject. Have to say my new CV 70's P bass dispels the myth about body woods needing to breath etc. Its got bags of sustain and sounds great and all happening under a thick coat of poly... The sustain is because of the thick poly. 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyJohnson Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 4 hours ago, Cuzzie said: Tonewood is a name given to describe a group of woods that are commonly used to make musical instruments. The group is vast - it’s almost as arbitrary as hating the term furniture wood if someone used it. Yes every piece of wood will have some tonal properties, but some will display better properties than others - and this will be for a myriad of reasons based on its internal make up, stiffness, water content, shrinkage profile, ease of working, availability, tradition etc. But as a general rule hardwoods for bodies softwoods for sound boards - those terms come by not because of how ‘hard’ they are but because of the grain. Thats about all it is, but there will be a difference species to species, block to block even on the same tree which may or may not be discernible. My point (many times over) is that in general we (viz. bassists) are neither carpenters nor arborists (although I do accept that there will be bassists who are carpenters and arborists) and in general the bulk of us here, who have this desire for 'tonewoods' maple, rosewood, mahogany probably wouldn't recognise maple, rosewood, mahongany from hickory, cherry or walnut. Over many moons, we are just fed this nonsense (there, I've said it again) that we need basses built from these 'tonewoods' because we are somehow of the belief that it's both better and it's going to transform our tone from rubber bands over a cardboard box to the rich tone of a grand piano. It's not. How many times have you watched a video of someone on Premier Guitar and see them turn to the camera and say, 'I'm not sure what this body is made from, it could be <insert wood type here>.' You can built from anything and if you did a blind test, I doubt you'd be able to say with any certaintly that what you were playing was built from a laminate of maple, walnut and alder or pencils and resin. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyJohnson Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 I suppose there's wood in there somewhere, probably cedar. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer of the Bass Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 I've heard plenty of plywood solid bodied instruments that sound good. It does have some practical downsides in the form it tends to be used in budget guitars - it can be prone to small cracks in the short-grained areas around bolt-on neck pockets, it often doesn't hold screws well, particularly close to edges, and the finish often sinks into the grain in unattractive ways over the years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuzzie Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 18 minutes ago, NancyJohnson said: I suppose there's wood in there somewhere, probably cedar. Cool - Cedar is a tonewood 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 11 minutes ago, Cuzzie said: Cool - Cedar is a tonewood But that's only 1/3 cedar maximum. The rest is resin and whatever the "lead" part of the pencil are made of. Are they "tone woods" too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 Plywood is fine for making a bass, as are many other materials. Cost, looks and tone are all valid reasons to use specific materials. My take on this. Unless you are in the business of listening for tone in materials you're not going to be very good at identifying the small differences. Unlike tea, coffee, perfume, whiskey blenders and some makers of musical instruments our senses will not be developed enough to be able to comment whether this material or that material makes a difference or not. We don't know what we don't know. We can say what our preferences are, but I just don't get why people think they know all the answers and reasons, when they clearly don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diskwave Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 41 minutes ago, NancyJohnson said: Over many moons, we are just fed this nonsense Absolutely, trouble is takes decades and a ton of money to see the light. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 Sometimes these discussions sound like people arguing about how many grains of sand there are on the beach exactly, while the rest happily play, sunbathe and swim on the sea. 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuzzie Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 1 hour ago, BigRedX said: But that's only 1/3 cedar maximum. The rest is resin and whatever the "lead" part of the pencil are made of. Are they "tone woods" too? No - it’s resin and lead-they are tone metals and tone sap/glue - they will have their own resonance properties - you wouldn’t catch me calling the plasma bass or acrylic bass a tone wood, that’s just silly. Feel free to look up the different tonewoods, densities, strengths, pores, water content etc that will give you information - from there you can decide how much difference there is. I know definitively my tone thing graphite bass sounds different to my tonewood one - and even if you jumped the electronics between the 2 it will be the same Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuzzie Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 9 minutes ago, mcnach said: Sometimes these discussions sound like people arguing about how many grains of sand there are on the beach exactly, while the rest happily play, sunbathe and swim on the sea. Yep Shells sand or stones so long as their is ice cream and chish and fips it’s fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezbass Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 So, to conclude, plywood is fine. In fact, make solid bodies, or even semi acoustics out of whatever you like, just make it well and use decent pickups/hardware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 1 hour ago, Cuzzie said: I know definitively my tone thing graphite bass sounds different to my tonewood one - and even if you jumped the electronics between the 2 it will be the same Are you 100% sure? Have you tried it? No of course you haven't. Hardly any of us have apart from a few people on YouTube and since their sample sizes are one of each and their scientific methodology is essentially non-existent, their results are irrelevant. Trying to pin-point a tonal quality onto one aspect of a bass is close to pointless. So is trying to make generalisations about the sound of a particular "tone wood" as every piece is different. The best thing to do is to take each instrument as a whole. Does it look, play and sound how you would like it? Yes? The buy it. No? Then look elsewhere. Job done. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuzzie Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 10 minutes ago, BigRedX said: Are you 100% sure? Have you tried it? No of course you haven't. Hardly any of us have apart from a few people on YouTube and since their sample sizes are one of each and their scientific methodology is essentially non-existent, their results are irrelevant. Trying to pin-point a tonal quality onto one aspect of a bass is close to pointless. So is trying to make generalisations about the sound of a particular "tone wood" as every piece is different. The best thing to do is to take each instrument as a whole. Does it look, play and sound how you would like it? Yes? The buy it. No? Then look elsewhere. Job done. There is no doubt you will pick a fault somewhere - when I move a pick up knobs and a jack between basses, there is a difference. If I change the neck on the bass between wood and graphite, there is a difference all else being the same. No doubt you’ll trot out I’d have screwed it differently or the strings are 3 hours older and been restrung so they sound different blah blah blah..... There will be a a difference between species, within each species there will be a difference depending on growing conditions etc. How they piece together you are correct is another variable. It’s a spectrum with overlap. It’s 2 separate questions being merged for the sake of point proving. Is there a difference - yes, even the most ardent would not disagree - this is an absolute Does it make a noticeable difference - possibly but not to everyone. Does it play and sound how you like - if it’s no, is that because it’s rubbish or because there is a certain combination of things/tonewoods that you consistently don’t like - if that’s the case then it does make a difference 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 2 hours ago, mcnach said: Sometimes these discussions sound like people arguing about how many grains of sand there are on the beach exactly, while the rest happily play, sunbathe and swim on the sea. Can I just make clear that I don't like beaches, or playing on them, or sunbathing, or swimming in the sea, or any other related activities. I'd rather argue about how many grains ... you get the picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuzzie Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 Just now, EssentialTension said: Can I just make clear that I don't like beaches, or playing on them, or sunbathing, or swimming in the sea, or any other related activities. I'd rather argue about how many grains ... you get the picture. Beach Volleyball? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 Just now, Cuzzie said: Beach Volleyball? I'll be in the bar. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 2 hours ago, Cuzzie said: Yep Shells sand or stones so long as their is ice cream and chish and fips it’s fun My very first time having fish and chips in the UK was in Norwich, at a place called Chish and Fips, true story! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 25 minutes ago, EssentialTension said: Can I just make clear that I don't like beaches, or playing on them, or sunbathing, or swimming in the sea, or any other related activities. I'd rather argue about how many grains ... you get the picture. there's beer too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuzzie Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 3 minutes ago, mcnach said: My very first time having fish and chips in the UK was in Norwich, at a place called Chish and Fips, true story! I lived in Norwich! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuzzie Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 1 minute ago, mcnach said: there's beer too Yes please! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Cuzzie said: I lived in Norwich! Small world! I was living there between 1990-1994, but the fish&chips experience was in 1989. edit: and I remember enjoying Boddington's cream ale next door... and telling someone after a few pints "this beer is amazing, my English has improved so much since I started drinking it!" but my friend replied "that's what YOU think". Ah well, I decided that it was only wise to repeat the experiment to see who was right. Many many more visits followed. Edited February 21, 2021 by mcnach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezbass Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 Does beer batter make fish sound different over just a water/milk mix? Do you have to use bass, or will cod do? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 21 minutes ago, mcnach said: there's beer too I'll be in the bar or somewhere else of cultural interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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