Back up Amp - or nothing ?

[NancyJohnson]

4 hours ago, Cuzzie said:

What about the guys who have carried and used a back up?

It may be the minority, but I would prefer (as I think we all would) to have home insurance and it never be used rather than think it’s never going to be used, don’t have it and then something awful happens and you are stuck.

Bit of an odd come back. 

Look, I gigged for years with a variety of amps (generally heads, rarely combos) but only one at a time.  While I may have been fortunate, I never suffered amp loss either through breakdown or theft.  Considering reliability, I'm an advocate of you get what you pay for, buy carp, expect carp.  The OP didn't allude to what loss actually referred to.

Home insurance is never going to weigh in where breakdowns are concerned and the likelihood of Hastings et al paying out quickly (ie in a week) to cover loss by theft and replacement thereof is unlikely.  Thing is, a lot of small venues adopt gear sharing, so in that instance it's reasonable that another band will let you use their kit.  A lot of small venues also have backline available as well (although it might not be fit for purpose).  If you're in a wedding band (or something where you're the only band playing), you could feasibly go through FoH and hey let's face it, we live in networked times, there will always be someone who can loan you an amp until you're sorted. 

To be honest, it's nothing I'd be getting my panties in a twist about.  If the OP is concerned, a secondhand TC Electronic BH550 will suffice.  Tone print, loudish.  It's just whether the desire for a backup outweighs the desire to spend £400 on some small/portable.  Personally, after years of doing this, I wouldn't worry.  There's always a solution.

Edited February 20, 2021 by NancyJohnson
speling

[Al Krow]

So how complicated would it be to DI through the PA? Well, although I've not ever needed to do this on any gigs so far (touch wood), actually it can be a complete doddle and potentially avoid any disruption to the flow of the set - another factor to bear in mind.  

In my case there's a spare Gtr (high Z) input to our Allen & Heath mixer which means I can just take the lead out of my amp and plug straight into the mixer (without even needing a DI pedal - although please shout if you disagree with this bit). Job done.

How does it sound? Well I've just given that set up a spin and it's very passable, bearing in mind it's a 10" speaker (albeit a quality RCF 310A) and hasn't been tuned to bass frequencies in the way a bass cab will be. I suspect a lot of you will have decent 12" or 15" speakers for your PA which should sound even better.

Sufficient insurance for the hopefully blue moon event of a modern SS amp going down at a gig? Yes, for sure for me and similarly several gigging bassists on this thread.

I appreciate others want to take a more cautious approach and have a back-up amp instead. Completely respect that as being an entirely valid solution. Just not one I feel is necessary for my two covers bands.

Edited February 20, 2021 by Al Krow

[NancyJohnson]

1 minute ago, Al Krow said:

So how complicated would it be to DI through the PA? etc.

I did one gig where I went FoH.  Confusion, headliner arrived, asked, 'Where's your amp?' Bassist replied he used IEMs and straight into the PA, so the sound guy took a feed from a Sansamp.

We had no monitors, I couldn't hear anything, but the people out front heard everything and said it was fine.

I just feel we all seem to be so worried about stuff that we really shouldn't be worrying about.  How big the nut is.  What the neck radius is.  Neck-bloody-dive.  How we really need to take out those Seymour Duncan Quarter Pounders and install some EMG active pickups etc.  We're the only people in the band or room that's really concerned.  Nobody there is interested in what gauge strings you have or whether you have an Aguilar tone circuit installed.

Sigh.

[bassfan]

I’ve never taken a backup amp to a gig.  Touch wood I’ve never had an issue. I do carry an Eden di box in my spares bag just incase. Used it once to go foh in a small venue. Works fine. 

Edited February 20, 2021 by bassfan

[hiram.k.hackenbacker]

I've considered not taking any amps (and doing a Geddy) more times than I've considered taking a back-up amp (never).

I've only ever had an issue with one amp many years ago and it was a particularly tempremental bugger. On the two occasions it quit on me, we were in a theatre venue and was easily bypassed.

Edited February 20, 2021 by hiram.k.hackenbacker

[Paul S]

21 minutes ago, NancyJohnson said:

Considering reliability, I'm an advocate of you get what you pay for, buy carp, expect carp. 

Unfortunately shelling out for expensive stuff is no guarantee.  As I said a few posts earlier, the first time I used my Mesa Boogie Prodigy Four:88 it blew up and I paid about as much as a family holiday for it.  I had a back up (which cost to buy about as much as it cost me to get the Mesa Boogie repaired).

[walshy]

I used to always take a Quilter BB800 to all my gigs just in case. But having the Noble Pre on my board now as well as the VTDI I won't do that now. My amp gear is pretty much all new ( due to bloody Covid ) so should be tip top when gigs happen again. 

[Cuzzie]

28 minutes ago, NancyJohnson said:

Bit of an odd come back. 

Look, I gigged for years with a variety of amps (generally heads, rarely combos) but only one at a time.  While I may have been fortunate, I never suffered amp loss either through breakdown or theft.  Considering reliability, I'm an advocate of you get what you pay for, buy carp, expect carp.  The OP didn't allude to what loss actually referred to.

Home insurance is never going to weigh in where breakdowns are concerned and the likelihood of Hastings et al paying out quickly (ie in a week) to cover loss by theft and replacement thereof is unlikely.  Thing is, a lot of small venues adopt gear sharing, so in that instance it's reasonable that another band will let you use their kit.  A lot of small venues also have backline available as well (although it might not be fit for purpose).  If you're in a wedding band (or something where you're the only band playing), you could feasibly go through FoH and hey let's face it, we live in networked times, there will always be someone who can loan you an amp until you're sorted. 

To be honest, it's nothing I'd be getting my panties in a twist about.  If the OP is concerned, a secondhand TC Electronic BH550 will suffice.  Tone print, loudish.  It's just whether the desire for a backup outweighs the desire to spend £400 on some small/portable.  Personally, after years of doing this, I wouldn't worry.  There's always a solution.

Maybe its poorly worded, poorly chosen example - the photographer is probably a better one, but it was more born out of the fact some people take extra stuff as a back up or insurance policy, and of course you don’t want to use it, because if you have to it means something of yours has broken and can be expensive to fix as per @Paul S identified.

There is always a solution, if you have a variety of solutions.....

[Cuzzie]

45 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Haha it's not all about you, even if you are talking baloney some of the time!

I mean seriously, who calls a P pup anything other than a "P pup"?

Oh i dunno, a fool no doubt, don’t listen to a word they have to say

[Al Krow]

38 minutes ago, Paul S said:

Unfortunately shelling out for expensive stuff is no guarantee.  As I said a few posts earlier, the first time I used my Mesa Boogie Prodigy Four:88 it blew up and I paid about as much as a family holiday for it.  I had a back up (which cost to buy about as much as it cost me to get the Mesa Boogie repaired).

That was a seriously painful experience, Paul, and you have all our sympathy on that one mate! Out of interest have you had any breakdown issues with your other non-valve / SS amps?

[Paul S]

11 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

That was a seriously painful experience, Paul, and you have all our sympathy on that one mate! Out of interest have you had any breakdown issues with your other non-valve / SS amps?

That was the only time, Bas.  At one gig my old Trace Elliot appeared to cause some buzzing over in ears/monitors when muted for some reason but that only happened once so was perhaps a vagary of the venue.

[Lozz196]

Always worth having a backup. At Rebellion in 2019 I plugged into the provided - and obligatory - Ampeg SVT, got levels etc, all good.

Waited til we were ready to go, got the go signal, turned up the volume on my bass, hit a note just to make sure, nothing.

Luckily there was a spare SVT behind the stack. I could have DI’d via my Para Driver no problem, but just shows, a bit of gear can fail at any time.

[Al Krow]

1 hour ago, Cuzzie said:

There is always a solution, if you have a variety of solutions.....

24 minutes ago, Lozz196 said:

Always worth having a backup...I could have DI’d via my Para Driver no problem...

Not sure anyone should disagree with the above sentiments! (sorry if I've misread the script by concurring Cuzzie, on this occassion lol!)

I think we have, between us, come up with 3 commonly used solutions which should all work just fine:

- DI straight into the PA;

- DI into the PA vis a pre-amp pedal to get your desired tone shaping / grit (or indeed your complete sound if it's a decent multifx e.g. Helix);

- take a spare amp with you.

2 hours ago, NancyJohnson said:

To be honest, it's nothing I'd be getting my panties in a twist about...I just feel we all seem to be so worried about stuff that we really shouldn't be worrying about.

Given the relatively straightforward Plan Bs available, Paul for me you've hit the nail on the head.

[Cuzzie]

24 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

(sorry if I've misread the script by concurring Cuzzie, on this occassion lol!)

This is the road to rack and ruin but true enlightenment

Edited February 20, 2021 by Cuzzie
Road not oral!

[la bam]

Worth remembering - it's not all about the main amp failing.

You could trip on the way in. A band member could drop it carrying it in. A band member could trip over it. Someone could spill a drink over it. You could pull it off the cab, if a lightweight class d. A drunk punter could throw beer over it. It could get damaged by somebody putting other gear over it when setting up. The power could fail in the venue and trip it.

Theres loads of reasons you may end up needing a spare amp, not just the amp failing of it's own accord.

Each to their own of how you get round it.

[Paul S]

10 minutes ago, la bam said:

Theres loads of reasons you may end up needing a spare amp, not just the amp failing of it's own accord.

Each to their own of how you get round it.

Exactly so.  each to their own.

Which is why I find it hard to understand when some folk react so negatively at the idea of taking a spare just because they don't.  Like the very possibility of a spare makes their gonads wither, or something.   

[Cuzzie]

2 minutes ago, Paul S said:

Exactly so.  each to their own.

Which is why I find it hard to understand when some folk react so negatively at the idea of taking a spare just because they don't.  Like the very possibility of a spare makes their gonads wither, or something.   

Mine are already Bill Withered-but totally agree

[chris_b]

I took my Ampeg SVT3 PRO in for a service. The tech took one look and said, "I've never had one of these in." He pointed to about 20 SVT's on the floor at the other side of the workshop. "Those are what I usually work on!"

[skidder652003]

14 minutes ago, chris_b said:

I took my Ampeg SVT3 PRO in for a service. The tech took one look and said, "I've never had one of these in." He pointed to about 20 SVT's on the floor at the other side of the workshop. "Those are what I usually work on!"

mines gathering dust under the stairs and I'm cacking it thinking about turning it back on!  Probably stick to using my Markbass combo or even the Peavey TNT moulding away in the garage, that's the Toyota pickup of amps, it;s incapable of destruction!

[Lozz196]

48 minutes ago, chris_b said:

I took my Ampeg SVT3 PRO in for a service. The tech took one look and said, "I've never had one of these in." He pointed to about 20 SVT's on the floor at the other side of the workshop. "Those are what I usually work on!"

That’s quite telling in itself. 

[fretmeister]

If I’m getting paid then I take a spare head, And a spare bass, and I’ve always got a di  available.

Anything else isn’t professional.

 

[Al Krow]

3 hours ago, Paul S said:

Exactly so.  each to their own.

Which is why I find it hard to understand when some folk react so negatively at the idea of taking a spare just because they don't.  Like the very possibility of a spare makes their gonads wither, or something.   

Not at all Paul. Don't think anyone really thinks taking a spare amp is "wrong". It's a perfectly sensible approach!

I think they object to the silly insinuation that if folk dare to have a different back-up plan (such as DI'ing into the PA) then this could either fatally damage their "brands" or they are being unprofessional. 

I guess we should all take spare PAs, have a hire car lined up in case ours breaks down en route and a backing lead vocalist in case of a sore throat? For a paid pub gig? What nonsense. 

[Downunderwonder]

There is far more chance of a backup amp being stolen out of my car or filched at the venue than there is of my amp failing. I am sure I am not the only (occasionally) paid player that doesn't pay for professional gear insurance.

[Cuzzie]

42 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Not at all Paul. Don't think anyone really thinks taking a spare amp is "wrong". It's a perfectly sensible approach!

I think they object to the silly insinuation that if folk dare to have a different back-up plan (such as DI'ing into the PA) then this could either fatally damage their "brands" or they are being unprofessional. 

I guess we should all take spare PAs, have a hire car lined up in case ours breaks down en route and a backing lead vocalist in case of a sore throat? For a paid pub gig? What nonsense. 

Not for the first time a complete misunderstanding of the intention of mine (or others) posts, or danger of skim reading and coming to a different conclusion.

there is no harm in DI’ng into a PA - but if your PA carries vocals only and DI-ing is not an option, therefore a different solution is reasonable. If your only means of projecting the instrument is an amplifier and cab, having a spare amp is not unreasonable.

Having more than 1 driver, using public transport, hiring a vehicle, taking a taxi, getting a dep in for sickness and unavailability  - these are all things that can and do happen to ensure a gig goes ahead, correct me if i am wrong they are things you have done with your bands?

The only thing that muddies the water is assuming that because what you have does ‘X’  or where you play has Y, then everyone must have the same, its not the case in all situations.

Example from experience - Church hall gig, ensured there is a PA for the vocals at least to go through, man with the keys will meet at the designated time to unlock and release and show how to work it. As ever tight turnaround right before the event is to start which includes setting the place up for the event - Keys man is a no show due to illness, ring around trying to get keys and busy ourselves with the other stuff, eventually someone comes, PA is not working - Yes i did take a spare PA and yes the drummer had the acoustic and electric kit so we could pick the appropriate one to match the systems, and yes the designated singer was ill leading up to it so i had to make sure i had to learn all the songs to sing in case, and the band learnt extra more suited to my voice just in case - it was a charity dinner/event and we were the only music/entertainment - it had to happen.

Doing your utmost to ensure it goes ahead and to give the best show possible is not nonsense - unavoidable things can of course happen.

[Cuzzie]

33 minutes ago, Downunderwonder said:

There is far more chance of a backup amp being stolen out of my car or filched at the venue than there is of my amp failing. I am sure I am not the only (occasionally) paid player that doesn't pay for professional gear insurance.

Thats heart breaking an i hope it happens to no-one - I’ve designated driven - taken all the stuff back to a safe place and tried to come back out for last orders just to ensure this does not happen