Back up Amp - or nothing ?

[chris_b]

14 hours ago, paulbuzz said:

Same.

Over a similar period of time, my two biggest amp fiascos have both involved the amp vibrating off the top of the cab and hitting the deck:

1) Old Trace Elliot GP11 pre-amp. Very loud bass, very resonant stage.
    Amp hits deck. Carries on working like nothing has happened. I'm completely unaware until my bandmates start gesticulating frantically at me. Shrug and carry on playing.
    Lesson learned: Trace Elliot amps are tough as shi t.

2) My first Class D amp.
    Amp hits deck. Stops working, input socket caved in. Replug directly into PA, bass sounds terrible, finish gig anyway.
    Lesson learned: Class D amps are really light. Put some velcro on the bottom of them.
 

I take care that these things don't happen in the first place, and not be grateful that a piece of gear bounces!

[paulbuzz]

4 hours ago, chris_b said:

I take care that these things don't happen in the first place, and not be grateful that a piece of gear bounces!

Very sensible, I'm sure! 🙂

However, having selected reliable gear and (mostly) kept it in good order, such experiences are very rare; just a handful of gear-embarassments in 40 years of gigging.

TBH, the most gig-disruptive equipment problem I ever created was when I found I didn't have my bass strap, after having previously removed it from my bag for some reason. (Fortunately I did manage to get one from somewhere in the nick of time.) It can be the most mundane and unexpected of items that cause a crisis.

So, do you super-professional all-eventualities-covered types take a spare of every single item to every gig? Including PA speakers, mixing desk etc, if you're providing your own...?

[Jack]

1 hour ago, paulbuzz said:

Very sensible, I'm sure! 🙂

However, having selected reliable gear and (mostly) kept it in good order, such experiences are very rare; just a handful of gear-embarassments in 40 years of gigging.

TBH, the most gig-disruptive equipment problem I ever created was when I found I didn't have my bass strap, after having previously removed it from my bag for some reason. (Fortunately I did manage to get one from somewhere in the nick of time.) It can be the most mundane and unexpected of items that cause a crisis.

So, do you super-professional all-eventualities-covered types take a spare of every single item to every gig? Including PA speakers, mixing desk etc, if you're providing your own...?

A literal spare everything? No. But I posted a few pages back about covering that kind of thing. 

[casapete]

1 hour ago, paulbuzz said:

Very sensible, I'm sure! 🙂

However, having selected reliable gear and (mostly) kept it in good order, such experiences are very rare; just a handful of gear-embarassments in 40 years of gigging.

TBH, the most gig-disruptive equipment problem I ever created was when I found I didn't have my bass strap, after having previously removed it from my bag for some reason. (Fortunately I did manage to get one from somewhere in the nick of time.) It can be the most mundane and unexpected of items that cause a crisis.

So, do you super-professional all-eventualities-covered types take a spare of every single item to every gig? Including PA speakers, mixing desk etc, if you're providing your own...?

I have a spare of everything I use on stage, other than a speaker cab. So spare mic & lead, bass and leads, strings, strap, stand, tuner, DI box, amp, speaker cable/mains leads etc. Most of my gigs are in theatres so my spares case is usually in the wings just to my left. Must admit I do get confidence from knowing I’m okay for most eventualities.

[paulbuzz]

The weird thing here is that in almost every musical situation I've been in, I am the most cautious, backup-ready participant; yet in the context of this thread, I feel like I'm towards the casual, nah-it'll-all-be-fine end of the scale.

I imagine that this is because the people likely to participate in this kind of thread on an internet forum are probably a self-selected group of slightly-obsessive preppers... 😜

So - are your band-mates all as well prepared as you, or are they a bunch of recklessly optimistic ne'er-do-wells, hopelessly vulnerable to equipment failure at any second...?

[peteb]

12 minutes ago, casapete said:

I have a spare of everything I use on stage, other than a speaker cab. So spare mic & lead, bass and leads, strings, strap, stand, tuner, DI box, amp, speaker cable/mains leads etc. Most of my gigs are in theatres so my spares case is usually in the wings just to my left. Must admit I do get confidence from knowing I’m okay for most eventualities.

For most gigs that is pretty much what I do. There are a few gigs where it is impractical to take all the spares you would like and you end up just taking one bass, but there is no way I would play a big gig without a spare of virtually everything. 

1 hour ago, paulbuzz said:

So, do you super-professional all-eventualities-covered types take a spare of every single item to every gig? Including PA speakers, mixing desk etc, if you're providing your own...?

The last time I needed to use my spare bass was at at a big bike rally to 2,500 punters (somewhat bigger than the average crowd that I play to these days - it's always the big gigs where something goes wrong). Middle band out of three on the bill, no soundcheck as the headline band had turned up late then took forever doing their soundcheck, went on stage to find no sound from the bass (it turned out to be a wire that had come loose when changing a battery - £5 job to repair, but needed a soldering iron). I pulled the spare bass out of my gigbag and no one knew that there was an issue. 

So what would you have done if your bass had gone down in front of 2,500 punters?? 

[peteb]

6 minutes ago, paulbuzz said:

So - are your band-mates all as well prepared as you, or are they a bunch of recklessly optimistic ne'er-do-wells, hopelessly vulnerable to equipment failure at any second...?

Yes, they all bring spares

 

Edited February 27, 2021 by peteb

[mcnach]

On 26/02/2021 at 13:56, chris_b said:

I've had 2 amps fail on a gig and they were both valve amps. In 20 years I've never had an SS or D class amp fail. My Aguilar amps are "flightcased" in aluminium foam lined cases I got from Maplins. The combined weight of 2 amps and 2 cases is about 10lbs so taking both to every gig isn't a hassle at all. I don't get the "buying a backup amp, just in case" idea. I'll often sound check both and use the one that sounds best on the day. 

 

Simples:

If the 'backup' is so small that it guarantees you'll actually take it with you, rather than leaving it behind most times, hence becoming a non-backup-really. 

Just one possible scenario that has been mentioned quite a few times since those tiny weeny ones starting to be produced.

[casapete]

1 minute ago, paulbuzz said:

The weird thing here is that in almost every musical situation I've been in, I am the most cautious, backup-ready participant; yet in the context of this thread, I feel like I'm towards the casual, nah-it'll-all-be-fine end of the scale.

I imagine that this is because the people likely to participate in this kind of thread on an internet forum are probably a self-selected group of slightly-obsessive preppers... 😜

So - are your band-mates all as well prepared as you, or are they a bunch of recklessly optimistic ne'er-do-wells, hopelessly vulnerable to equipment failure at any second...?

My previous band were terrible. I was always the guy people came to for a spare when their only lead didn’t work. My current band are the opposite - everyone has back up kit, and we also have a trunk with generic spare leads for everyone. 

My partner in my duo makes me look unprepared! He has spares of everything, including stuff he doesn’t use but someone else may do. He also organises lots of band gigs using many musicians so guess it’s down to him to make it all run smoothly. He runs a Mercedes van so no problem with carrying stuff. ( He even has spare clothes in case of food disasters, a common incident on wedding / function gigs!)

[Ed_S]

57 minutes ago, paulbuzz said:

So, do you super-professional all-eventualities-covered types take a spare of every single item to every gig? Including PA speakers, mixing desk etc, if you're providing your own...?

When I used to own a PA system I'd have some spare cables but also another power amp in the outboard rack. Needed it once as well - the main amp for the wedges popped during soundcheck at a friend's wedding. Speakers and stands had to take their chances, but one of the other guys in the band would bring a spare desk if asked. As I no longer have a PA (I hated shifting it so I sold it to force the issue!) that's now somebody else's problem, but we mostly play venues with house PA anyway.

For bass, aside from the little amp that I mentioned further up, I try to have either spares or a workable plan to cover as much as I reasonably can. Things like an extra of each type of cable, a 1-spot and another wireless pack don't take up much room in my equipment bag along with the usual strings and batteries. It's just a biggish laptop bag with the amps in the padded section, so it's not an awkward carry. Then I have my spare bass in a gig-bag which is kitted out so that if it was all I had left for some mad reason, I could still go into the house PA - so that's bass, strap, cable, DI box, tuner, picks and even some disposable earplugs. It'd be an uncomfortable gig and we'd have to choose a setlist that didn't need the Drop pedal on my board, but for the sake of about £300 including the bag and all contents, I wouldn't be the reason we couldn't go on.

And that's kind of the thing for me - it's much more about how I feel than what anybody else thinks. Sure, it'd be nice if a promoter thought I was acting professionally and duly appreciated it, but I'm all about feeling prepared and not being the one who lets the band down if at all possible.

3 minutes ago, paulbuzz said:

I imagine that this is because the people likely to participate in this kind of thread on an internet forum are probably a self-selected group of slightly-obsessive preppers... 😜

So - are your band-mates all as well prepared as you, or are they a bunch of recklessly optimistic ne'er-do-wells, hopelessly vulnerable to equipment failure at any second...?

Yup, guilty as charged!

And the other guys vary. Lead is generally prepared, but has used my spare speaker lead much more often than I ever have. Rhythm is generally unprepared and has had various on-stage issues but hasn't yet stopped a show. Drums is very particular about the upkeep of his kit and has a big roll of tape!

[mcnach]

22 hours ago, paulbuzz said:

This.

"Uhh... have you got a spare 4-way?"
"No, sorry, I haven't. Where's yours? Did you forget it?"
"No, I just haven't got one. But you've got a spare socket on yours. Will it reach over here?"
"Yes, if I fish it out from where I've tucked it tidily behind/under all my other stuff, and instead drape it (and all my cables that are plugged into it) right across the middle of the room/stage."
"Well, we'd better do that then, because I need to plug my stuff in."
"..."

Although this is not quite as annoying as the time we arrived at a gig to find that the PA guy hadn't finished setting up yet, so we dumped our gear and went off to get a beer while he finished.
On returning, I started to set up my bass gear, only to discover that my 4-way wasn't in my leads bag.
I then noticed that this was because the PA guy had taken it from my bag and used it to plug one of his amp racks in...!
He was quite alarmed and seemingly surprised when I unplugged it... 🙄

 

I hope you unplugged it very very slowly while looking at him in the eye

 

[mcnach]

21 hours ago, Al Krow said:

I envy the fact that you've already done more gigs than I'm ever likely to do and I suspect had a huge amount fun along the way. 

Obviously you were risking irretrievable damage to your "brand" at every gig by having gear that you've been able to rely on and had clearly managed to look after. But sometimes it's good to live life on the edge, eh?! 😁

 

The first 27 times was moderately funny, now... ah what do I know?

 

[mcnach]

1 hour ago, paulbuzz said:

Very sensible, I'm sure! 🙂

However, having selected reliable gear and (mostly) kept it in good order, such experiences are very rare; just a handful of gear-embarassments in 40 years of gigging.

TBH, the most gig-disruptive equipment problem I ever created was when I found I didn't have my bass strap, after having previously removed it from my bag for some reason. (Fortunately I did manage to get one from somewhere in the nick of time.) It can be the most mundane and unexpected of items that cause a crisis.

So, do you super-professional all-eventualities-covered types take a spare of every single item to every gig? Including PA speakers, mixing desk etc, if you're providing your own...?

 

I don't know others, but I even bring two hands to every gig, and two ears although one may not be plugged in. I wouldn't like having to rely on whetever the sound engineer has in his bag of stuff...

[mcnach]

17 minutes ago, peteb said:

For most gigs that is pretty much what I do. There are a few gigs where it is impractical to take all the spares you would like and you end up just taking one bass, but there is no way I would play a big gig without a spare of virtually everything. 

The last time I needed to use my spare bass was at at a big bike rally to 2,500 punters (somewhat bigger than the average crowd that I play to these days - it's always the big gigs where something goes wrong). Middle band out of three on the bill, no soundcheck as the headline band had turned up late then took forever doing their soundcheck, went on stage to find no sound from the bass (it turned out to be a wire that had come loose when changing a battery - £5 job to repair, but needed a soldering iron). I pulled the spare bass out of my gigbag and no one knew that there was an issue. 

So what would you have done if your bass had gone down in front of 2,500 punters?? 

 

I always wondered what it would be like if I just took a microphone and hummed my basslines. I did it during rehearsal once for fun and it wasn't as bad as I expected! But nowhere near as good as I'd be comfortable doing in your situation  However others may be much more talented than me in the vocal department (easy feat).

[peteb]

I even bring at least two spare tee shirts to the gig! This has come in use when the drummer spilt something on himself and had to borrow one to do the gig in...! 

[Al Krow]

9 minutes ago, mcnach said:

The first 27 2 times was moderately barely funny, now... ah what do I know?

Nah you're quite correct. 

Fixed 😁

PS is it about time we had an update from you on the Broughton new super HPF thingy...

[Al Krow]

35 minutes ago, paulbuzz said:

The weird thing here is that in almost every musical situation I've been in, I am the most cautious, backup-ready participant; yet in the context of this thread, I feel like I'm towards the casual, nah-it'll-all-be-fine end of the scale.

I imagine that this is because the people likely to participate in this kind of thread on an internet forum are probably a self-selected group of slightly-obsessive preppers... 😜

So - are your band-mates all as well prepared as you, or are they a bunch of recklessly optimistic ne'er-do-wells, hopelessly vulnerable to equipment failure at any second...?

That's a very good point and question! 

I'm feeling exactly the same as your first sentence - so much so that I messaged a BC buddy of mine who is a pro bassist and was doing around 300 gigs a year pre Covid to ask him whether he took a spare bass to gigs, and he said "pretty much never" and was pretty relaxed on the basis that he looked after his gear carefully (which I do too). Made me feel a whole lot better with my measly 30 or so gigs a year...

Edited February 27, 2021 by Al Krow

[Beer of the Bass]

I did used to bring a spare amp head when we hosted a monthly gig with guest bands using my amp, and I was using a vintage valve amp at the time. The backup (my GK MB200) was needed once, though afterwards I worked out that the failure was the speaker cable on my valve amp. As the valve amp was on a jack-to-jack cable and the GK is on Speakons, swapping them sorted it and I wasn't going to faff about figuring out the root cause during the gig.

[paulbuzz]

26 minutes ago, peteb said:

The last time I needed to use my spare bass was at at a big bike rally to 2,500 punters (somewhat bigger than the average crowd that I play to these days - it's always the big gigs where something goes wrong). Middle band out of three on the bill, no soundcheck as the headline band had turned up late then took forever doing their soundcheck, went on stage to find no sound from the bass (it turned out to be a wire that had come loose when changing a battery - £5 job to repair, but needed a soldering iron). I pulled the spare bass out of my gigbag and no one knew that there was an issue. 

So what would you have done if your bass had gone down in front of 2,500 punters?? 

I dunno man, a p-bass seems like a pretty damn reliable object to me! No failures yet in 40 years!

With reference to your particular example: this one definitely wouldn't happen to me because, if we're talking about feeling confident regarding equipment, one of my personal foibles is an utter hatred of battery-powered gear on stage. Ugh, I don't know how people can stand the uncertainty. It's even worse when people say "oh, but the battery in my bass lasts for 18 months or more" - that just means it's bound to catch you on the hop when it does die. Just no...

I get that going wireless on stage would be really physically liberating, but the batteries...urgh! What if you accidentally leave it turned on between the soundcheck and the gig...? 🤮  (I do understand that this is a particularly personal neurosis! 😁  ) 

[casapete]

3 minutes ago, paulbuzz said:

With reference to your particular example: this one definitely wouldn't happen to me because, if we're talking about feeling confident regarding equipment, one of my personal foibles is an utter hatred of battery-powered gear on stage. Ugh, I don't know how people can stand the uncertainty. It's even worse when people say "oh, but the battery in my bass lasts for 18 months or more" - that just means it's bound to catch you on the hop when it does die. Just no...

I'm with you on the battery thing. Took me years to feel comfortable with my P-Lyte after it ran out of juice on a gig. I minimise this happening again by always changing the battery when I change the strings ( about every 20 gigs or so on average) and also only use Duracells. 

[peteb]

5 minutes ago, paulbuzz said:

I dunno man, a p-bass seems like a pretty damn reliable object to me! No failures yet in 40 years!

With reference to your particular example: this one definitely wouldn't happen to me because, if we're talking about feeling confident regarding equipment, one of my personal foibles is an utter hatred of battery-powered gear on stage. Ugh, I don't know how people can stand the uncertainty. It's even worse when people say "oh, but the battery in my bass lasts for 18 months or more" - that just means it's bound to catch you on the hop when it does die. Just no...

I get that going wireless on stage would be really physically liberating, but the batteries...urgh! What if you accidentally leave it turned on between the soundcheck and the gig...? 🤮  (I do understand that this is a particularly personal neurosis! 😁  ) 

You can't say it won't happen to you, because if you do enough gigs then eventually it will. Having said that, if I find myself obliged to take just one bass then I will bring a passive. 

[Al Krow]

Just now, casapete said:

I'm with you on the battery thing. Took me years to feel comfortable with my P-Lyte after it ran out of juice on a gig. I minimise this happening again by always changing the battery when I change the strings ( about every 20 gigs or so on average) and also only use Duracells. 

+1 ^^

My ideal back up is a passive pull switch on active basses, and failing that a spare 9V battery in the gig bag and quick check on battery voltage tester (cost just a few quid) before I set off. 

[casapete]

2 minutes ago, peteb said:

You can't say it won't happen to you, because if you do enough gigs then eventually it will. Having said that, if I find myself obliged to take just one bass then I will bring a passive. 

Me too Pete - active P-Lyte is my main bass (due to it being...err...light), but a passive P-bass is my spare. Just occasionally the P-Lyte doesn't like some of the wiring in older theatres, causing a buzz, so I have to use the passive one.

[casapete]

Just now, Al Krow said:

+1 ^^

My ideal back up is a passive pull switch on active basses, and failing that a spare 9V battery in the gig bag and quick check on battery voltage tester (cost just a few quid) before I set off. 

I've toyed with making my P-Lyte passive for ages, just never got round to it. 

[paulbuzz]

4 minutes ago, casapete said:

I'm with you on the battery thing. Took me years to feel comfortable with my P-Lyte after it ran out of juice on a gig. I minimise this happening again by always changing the battery when I change the strings ( about every 20 gigs or so on average) and also only use Duracells. 

Yep, I know lots of people find the benefits of an active bass to be worth the battery aggravation. Fair enough, but it's definitely not for me!
If I really wanted one, I could possibly live with some kind of cunning phantom-powering arrangement, but a battery bass... noooooooo.......!