Home made or just assembled?

[Guest WilliamV]

Is it just me or does anyone else see it as that as far as "building" a guitar; Be it a bass or otherwise; If it is all or mostly all bought or made by someone else for you and all that you do is to assemble it, it is not actually a home made guitar?

I just read a post in the build diaries where someone is claiming a bass to be a "build" when in actuality, all that has been done is all the parts and pieces were sourced elsewhere. i.e. Not a hand crafted body. Someone else made it. Etc...

I am aware that some of the ones that I have built have pre-made necks and body. But in either case, there has been some kind of alteration made to them to justify them as being classed as home made. Other ones that I have done, the bodies are designed and hand cut from a raw blank. By me and not a "store bought" or "someone else made it" kind of thing. I admit that I have never made a neck, but I have fully disassembled a couple and made my own fretboards for them.

Don't get me wrong. I can appreciate someone taking on a task to assemble a "kit" guitar. But making at least some part of it yourself, by your own hands; Be it the body, neck or doing the wiring yourself, is a totally different and more gratifying kind of thing. To me, just assembling one is not actually building it. It's like someone saying that they have lots of "custom" parts on their motorcycle, when all that they have actually done is to install "off the shelf" parts and not actually made the custom parts themselves.

Semi-rant over...

[Killed_by_Death]

 

Where do we draw the lines?

A luthier who winds his own pickups might consider everyone who doesn't is just buying parts.

I doubt any of us have the equipment to make it all from raw materials.

 

[itu]

I like all self made stuff here, be it a kit or a whole instrument. And I would say that there are at least few who can build everything from scratch.

On the effects side there are also few very capable wizards I love to follow.

Any project is a good project. Keep up the good work!

[Si600]

Being rabidly pedantic for a moment, does that mean I have to seed my own tree, cut it, treat it and shape it. Mine and refine my own metal and plastic, wind my own wire and forge my own frets?

Actually.... Hand forged frets may be an interesting experience 🤔

I do take your meaning, those who commission something and then keep us updated but are just the customer, not the luthier. But at the end of the day it's, to me anyway, all interesting and entertaining and I see no harm in discussing it, or even how hand built is a kit bass.

It's all part of the conversation in this forum and we're all civilised enough to take others view's on board without getting in a tizzy over it.

I need to carry on with my bitsa really. 😉

[Dom in Dorset]

As long as the finished product isn't sold as something it's not does it matter?
There are various levels of "build" going on here , all valid in their own way, some interest me some don't .
I started out assembling parts, there's a lot to learn doing that, I'd advise anyone thinking of trying a first build to go down that route. 
 

[stereoplayer]

I still waiting on the trees that I planted to grow...🤣

[TheGreek]

I agree with the OP - multitudes of "Custom basses" on sites like eBay which have no custom parts at all.

If I put a sticker on a bass have I customised it?

[Jimothey]

49 minutes ago, TheGreek said:

I agree with the OP - multitudes of "Custom basses" on sites like eBay which have no custom parts at all.

If I put a sticker on a bass have I customised it?

The definition of customised is to modify something to a particular individual or task so if you put a sticker on it or paint it a non standard colour, change the bridge/pickups/ hardware colour etc then by definition yes you have customised it! 👍🏻

The OP mentions "by your own hands" so if a CNC machine is used then does that make it not a "real" build? 

Edited February 21, 2021 by Jimothey

[Si600]

1 hour ago, Jimothey said:

The OP mentions "by your own hands" so if a CNC machine is used then does that make it not a "real" build? 

Or any power tool? If your hands haven't directly controlled the speed and direction of the blade on the wood... Or chewed it from solid with your own teeth.

It's certainly a topic into which far more can be read than should I fear 😉

[Jimothey]

Sorry I forgot to add on my earlier post the definition of "build" is to make something by putting bricks or other materials together so if you buy parts ie body, neck etc as long as you are putting them together then technically you are building a guitar etc there is no mention that you have make the materials I think maybe people mistake the word manufacture for building as they are completely 2 different things and as the threads come under the sub heading "build diaries" then if you put parts together or make your own parts then they are in the right place and good luck to anyone who wishes to build a bitsa or from scratch they hold exaclty the same amount of merit IMO! 🙂

And also if you have commissioned a build then its still a build so them threads should go in there aswell! 

Edited February 21, 2021 by Jimothey

[DarkHeart]

Not everyone has a fully stocked workshop unfortunately or even the space to put one,  I`m one of those that just assembles, having said that I`m a happy assembler. 😀

Edited February 21, 2021 by DarkHeart

[PlungerModerno]

10 hours ago, Si600 said:

Or any power tool? If your hands haven't directly controlled the speed and direction of the blade on the wood... Or chewed it from solid with your own teeth.

It's certainly a topic into which far more can be read than should I fear 😉

 

Hang on, we'll have our seasoned timber in a matter of years!

6 hours ago, DarkHeart said:

Not everyone has a fully stocked workshop unfortunately or even the space to put one,  I`m one of those that just assembles, having said that I`m a happy assembler. 😀

Indeed. Some have only a screwdriver and a borrowed soldering iron!

[Andyjr1515]

I don't have a problem with it.

Assembling a bass from parts, kit or separates, finishing it, setting it up and then playing, or seeing someone who's asked for it to be built playing it, is a VERY satisfying thing to do.

Designing a bass from broad requirements, choosing the timbers, solving the 'how-to' challenges, finishing it, setting it up and then playing is a VERY, VERY satisfying thing to do.

 

Building from components and kits is also a very instructive thing to do to understand how the instrument actually operates, those things that have to be right and those things that you can take liberties with, and I often advise folks who want to try a full build (that's how I personally refer to them: full build; part build; kit or bitsa build) for the first time, that they should build a kit or bitsa first to learn those essential differences.

This is our old gits band a few years ago before infirmity set in (I was the youngest...it wasn't a good look  )

All are Andyjr1515 guitars or basses.  In the way I would describe them:

1 Modded

1 Modded Kit Build

1 Bitsa Build

3 Full Builds

 

I played the modded kit build for years (in fact I retired an own-design full build to play it) - and was very pleased with it.

So I'm cool with it.

But don't get me onto how a guitar company that makes copies of classic models are allowed to call their company 'Vintage' 

 

 

Edited February 22, 2021 by Andyjr1515

[Maude]

When is a build not a build? 

If I were to build a house using concrete pumped in from a lorry for the footings, pre made blocks for the walls, windows, doors, roof trusses made in a factory, slates for the roof quarried and cut elsewhere, paint bought from a shop, etc, etc, would it be a self build or just an assembly of pre made parts? I'd say you've built your own house. 

The same is surely true of a bass. You can go into a shop a buy one off the wall (or other outlets), but if you sit down, create a plan, order all the individual parts to create a bass of you own spec and then put all those parts together, I'd say you've built yourself a bass. 

I had a project moved into the 'Build Diaries' section by a moderator as it was getting too in depth for the 'Bass Guitars' section. I'm only bringing an old bass back to life, and didn't consider it a build as such to start with. But as the thread got more in depth the 'Build Diaries' was the only suitable section for it, but apart from a few aspects I'm only really stripping and reassembling parts. 

Also people's different levels of ability will govern what would constitute a build to them. For someone who isn't a hands on type of person, buying a kit and building and finishing that kit so that they have a playable instrument is a huge undertaking, and to be applauded. To one of the scratch builders on here that same kit might seem like the most mundane of jobs. They are both building though. 

 

Edited February 22, 2021 by Maude

[stewblack]

1 hour ago, Andyjr1515 said:

don't have a problem with it

And given Andy's skills and experience, the matter rests there. 

[bloke_zero]

I'm guilty of putting bits together and calling it a 'build' - but to be fair there is no 'bodging a bitsa' section here - I did look!

I generally at least break out the soldering iron and some finishing, but it doesn't feel right putting it up alongside people whittling a bass out of an oak tree and hand winding their pickups which is an order of magnitude harder and more interesting.

[mhoss32]

its also a learning process, i've done a lot of "builds" but the first ones i did (and some of the later ones) were off the shelf parts with custom bodies and pre made necks

and then i started to buy a half finsihed neck with no fretboard, but bought the fretboards pre slotted

and as you work with more pre made stuff and modify it more and more, and you understand how it was made and how to do it yourself

i dont think anyone is confident enought to go balls to the wall scratch built everything for a first build, but id still call them builds!

 

[PlungerModerno]

I think assembling is a crucial stage of a build - all builds are assembled, but not all basses would be built by the person who assembles them (if you mean sawdust and solder and varnish/painting). 

The line I can't decide is between a mod and a build/assembly.

As I see it If you buy a bass and change the strings that's not a mod, but if you switch a pickup that is - not because a string change does any less than a pickup change to the instruments character (esp. going from a vintage pickup that has a slight hum to a hum-cancelling but excellent tonal match pup, vs say going from Labella brand cables like James Jamerson flats to MK fleather light Rotosounds spankerinos for example). It's because of the "getting stuck in" factor.

I salute all my brothers and sisters that get stuck in, whether it's just music that you're making or mountains of sawdust and shavings!

[uk_lefty]

I'm self assembling a bass from parts. I have not got the time, skill, patience or equipment to build from raw Woods. I am learning as I go and have received excellent advice from members of BC along the way, without them I'd have ballsed up a lot more than I already have. I'm assembling and finishing something that cannot be bought off the shelf. I'm not calling it a build or homemade. Not sure why this, or anyone else, is deserving of a rant? It's not like the g!mps on ebay who list any old guitar as "custom" and "rare" when it's a black encore they bought in Argos. They should be strung up with old bass strings and beaten with ukeleles.

Edited February 26, 2021 by uk_lefty

[HazBeen]

I do full builds, mods, tweaks and what have you.
 

Personally I really don’t care if it is assembled or made from scratch, as long as I enjoy doing it.

Whilst I am relatively capable, my full builds are not Ken Smiths or Wals, nor would I expect them to be and in turn I would not judge anyone for using parts instead of building things themselves.

It is so dependent on time, money, equipment, talent and skill. Not all bass players are equal, but they are all bass players. Same with bass builders.

So as long as people are transparent about what they have done I have zero issues at all. 

And mind you, many custom basses are made by CNC ... so you should not even attempt to draw a line.

Edited February 26, 2021 by HazBeen

[Guest WilliamV]

On 21/02/2021 at 12:59, TheGreek said:

If I put a sticker on a bass have I customised it?

😎

[LukeFRC]

different people have different skill level.
Some struggle to change strings, some are high end carpenters who are dabbling in something that's fairly rudimentary for them...

This bit of the internet is open to all skill levels, and the longer you spend the more you start trying to do yourself. 
If you want somewhere for people who start with rough lumber and go from there, well then there are bits of the internet where you can find like minded individuals to discuss that with.