Downunderwonder Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 Seems to be a growing trend. My own intonation is not that great but damn it sounds horrible when it's so deliberately off it sounds like cats on a fence. What has set me off is the latest pop tune getting airplay with a ''tribal wood chimes?" synth part featured chorus. Bugger me days, no self respecting tribal musician sets up a full set of percussion with A400. I am not talking about vocalists bending notes to pitch or using autotune as an effect. Nobody under 25 seems able to hit a note at karaoke these days. What gives? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyJohnson Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 I had some isolated bass tracks by John Deacon, one of which was Liar. If you're familiar with the track, you'll know there's a solo bass thing going on in the last quarter; while the bass sits nicely in the mix, isolated it's quite shocking how (for a fretted instrument) far off the notes are. So it brings us to a similar route many of my posts seem to come around to recently, in that does <the subject matter> really matter. With the odd tweak, all my kit is set up to work per my requirements; action, intonation, relief etc. but this is probably me just needing to know that when I play a note it's going to be the note that I expect, not the sharp or flat of it. Given the isolated recording I mentioned earlier, I'd never noticed that the bass was so off and I'd listened to Liar dozens, perhaps hundreds of times over the years. Perhaps our brains are just wired not to notice nuances like this, or more to the point, 100% spot on intonation probably doesn't matter. Just moving along, my band (Lizard Sweets, look 'em up) will be moving into uncharted waters for the next batch of songs. Guitarist/producer is experimenting with quarter tone stuff (which sounds distinctly middle-eastern); god knows how that's going to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunderwonder Posted February 23, 2021 Author Share Posted February 23, 2021 57 minutes ago, NancyJohnson said: 100% spot on intonation probably doesn't matter. If it did I wouldn't have a job! What I am aghast at is deliberately detuning wood chimes as if it's something nice to hear when the natural sounding ones would actually have done quite nicely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezbass Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 1 hour ago, NancyJohnson said: Given the isolated recording I mentioned earlier, I'd never noticed that the bass was so off and I'd listened to Liar dozens, perhaps hundreds of times over the years. Perhaps our brains are just wired not to notice nuances like this, or more to the point, 100% spot on intonation probably doesn't matter. . Maybe it’s like looking at a delightful scene and taking a photo of it, only to find powelines all over the sky and telegraph poles growing out of people’s heads. The brain seems to just filter this stuff out. Having my basses correctly intonated gives me a sense of satisfaction and I think I unconsciously enjoy doing it, even though I might harumph and act like it’s a nuisance. However, given that I’m not a soloist and the dusty end is just that, do I really need to bother with being precise? I don’t know, but I’ll keep on doing it anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upside downer Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 2 hours ago, NancyJohnson said: Just moving along, my band (Lizard Sweets, look 'em up) will be moving into uncharted waters for the next batch of songs. Guitarist/producer is experimenting with quarter tone stuff (which sounds distinctly middle-eastern); god knows how that's going to work. Interesting. Here's another 'Lizard' band who went down that route on their splendidly named album Flying Microtonal Banana. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushbo Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 2 hours ago, NancyJohnson said: I had some isolated bass tracks by John Deacon, one of which was Liar. ...now THAT, I would love to hear. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyJohnson Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 17 minutes ago, upside downer said: Interesting. Here's another 'Lizard' band who went down that route on their splendidly named album Flying Microtonal Banana. We only switched to Lizard Sweets for this project as we caught some johnny-foreigner passing himself off as us online. There wasn't a Lizard Sweets anwhere (apart from the gummy variety). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyJohnson Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 1 minute ago, rushbo said: ...now THAT, I would love to hear. Hey Ian, I'll try and find them. Hope all is well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicbassman Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 Here's microtonality done properly - it's Planet Microjam at Berklee Guitarist is Dave Fiuczynski (used to be with Hiromi Uehara ) and I guess his playing style is pure Marmite. Have a listen........... bassist Arti Sadtler is doing a good job holding it all together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassist_lewis Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 From what I've read about intonation and pitch, it's about as subjective as our taste in music in general. Our common idea of intonation is based on equal temperament, whereby the piano is tuned so that it sounds in tune in any key. However, when it first started to appear in the late 19th century many people thought it sounded horrible and out of tune, which in a sense it is, but no one notices it now because it's what the vast majority of the Western world grows up listening to. Prior to that, pianos were tuned for a specific key, or group of keys, depending on the piece. What we now think of as enharmonic sharps and flats (i.e. G# and Ab) were also considered distinct pitches. The story of tuning systems is described in great detail in "How Equal Temperament Ruined Harmony" by Ross W. Duffin, if you want to know more. My point is, what sounds horribly out of tune to you may sound sonorous to someone else who is used to hearing it. That said, you'd think the bass player from one of the biggest bands ever would know how to tune his f$%&ing instrument! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 2 hours ago, musicbassman said: Guitarist is Dave Fiuczynski (used to be with Hiromi Uehara ) And M'eshell Ndegocello. What a CV! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 3 hours ago, musicbassman said: Here's microtonality done properly - *snip* Jesus. I hope I never hear it done not properly. 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyJohnson Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 4 hours ago, musicbassman said: Blimus. Unlistenable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinB Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 Even if it wasn't microtonal, I've a sneaking suspicion that'd still sound like tedious muso noodling 😏 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BreadBin Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 Just heard this on 6music - seemed pertinent https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=G11EycHaP8c&feature=share 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upside downer Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, BreadBin said: Just heard this on 6music - seemed pertinent https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=G11EycHaP8c&feature=share As Jim Bowen (almost) said, "You can't beat a bit of baglama!" 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuzzie Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 Tuning to bag pipes is very interesting, they are about a 1/4 step of standard tuning and change as they go from cool to warm - great fun to play with tho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunderwonder Posted February 24, 2021 Author Share Posted February 24, 2021 Your microtonal stuff is following its own rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StickyDBRmf Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 (edited) On 23/02/2021 at 15:10, musicbassman said: Here's microtonality done properly - it's Planet Microjam at Berklee Guitarist is Dave Fiuczynski (used to be with Hiromi Uehara ) and I guess his playing style is pure Marmite. Have a listen........... bassist Arti Sadtler is doing a good job holding it all together. I personaly dig Dave F. Local guy with "Screaming Headless Torsos". The reason I had frets removed from my Ironwood Chapman Stick. I'm sending him the bill when I have the frets put back in next month. Edited March 2, 2021 by Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMG456 Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 I really enjoyed all three of those - should I be worried? However... anybody care to explain to me what microtonalities are being used in either the Planet Microjam or the BabaZula clips? I didn't detect anything untowards with Dave Fiuczynski other than he likes to play with a sound that has a lot of deep pitch modulation going on. Or the fretless which he handles rather well considering the tight spacing up at the top end. No real messing with scale temperament there, just a nice kind of vibe reminiscent of Charlie Hunter, I thought. Babazula - nothing at all - straight down the middle. ?? King Gizzard & the Lizard Wizard on the other hand - some serious investment in microtonality there. Or is there something going on that's too subtle for me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodwind Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, EMG456 said: However... anybody care to explain to me what microtonalities are being used in either the Planet Microjam or the BabaZula clips? I didn't detect anything untowards... No real messing with scale temperament there... Or is there something going on that's too subtle for me? I agree completely. However I think it is subtle - the wind instrument in the Planet Jam thing seemed to have a different tuning system which the player was trying hard to bring into pitch with the fixed pitch instruments. I have a Cd of baroque, renaissance and classical organ music recorded on historical organs tuned to their correct historical temperaments (meantone, Werckmeister etc etc) Some of the sounds are SO alien or just completely "wrong" sounding, even though it's still 12 tone. This video is quite a fun exploration of breaking the scale into higher numbers of microtones: Edited March 1, 2021 by Woodwind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicbassman Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 7 hours ago, EMG456 said: I really enjoyed all three of those - should I be worried? However... anybody care to explain to me what microtonalities are being used in either the Planet Microjam or the BabaZula clips? With Planet Microjam, Freyja Garbett's upper keyboard is tuned about a sixth of a tone (I'm guessing) sharp compared to the lower one. That's all, but I agree with Woodwinds comments about intonation of the Suona. The keyboard's differences most clearly demonstrated at around 4.55 - 5.15. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Browning Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 On 23/02/2021 at 11:26, NancyJohnson said: Hey Ian, I'll try and find them. Hope all is well. https://queenpoland.wordpress.com/download/queen-multitracks/ Knock yourself out. The DI tracks are very interesting. Many of these are 1x DI, 1 x mic'd 4x12 and 1 x mic'd Acoustic 301 (1 x 18). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushbo Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 1 hour ago, Steve Browning said: https://queenpoland.wordpress.com/download/queen-multitracks/ Knock yourself out. The DI tracks are very interesting. Many of these are 1x DI, 1 x mic'd 4x12 and 1 x mic'd Acoustic 301 (1 x 18). Amazing stuff, thanks Steve! No "Liar" in this batch, but loads of Deaky related goodness to enjoy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upside downer Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 (edited) 20 hours ago, EMG456 said: However... anybody care to explain to me what microtonalities are being used in either the Planet Microjam or the BabaZula clips? Babazula - nothing at all - straight down the middle. ?? 'Abdulcanbaz' was probably not the best song to show off the microtones but I just really like that tune! The band play a combination of traditional Turkish folk music mixed with electronica and other influences from around the world. The saz has 17 notes to the octave (the microtones come after the sharps as we know them on a 12 note octave) and they now have an oud player from Greece with them too which gives them quite a unique frontline. Maybe the microtones are more 'subtle' as it's just another piece of their musical jigsaw? This next tune sounds a bit more unusual to western ears. Edited March 1, 2021 by upside downer clarity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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