Orange amps, one trick pony?

[karlfer]

1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

But tbf you could easily to do the same with a drive pedal of your choice and potentially even quicker i.e. no adjustments on the amp and just engage the pedal.

With an amp with built in drive / grit there's always the risk that it doesn't deliver exactly what you're always after in terms of grit (certainly can be true for the DG M900 series) but seems to me that OBT does as well as most, and you still always have the pedal option to bring to the party.

I don't use any pedals, the amp & basses do all I need.

I've done (like many weekend warriors) over 1000 gigs in 40+ years, nowadays I just want simple.

As long as it sounds like a bass most punters don't notice me 😁

[Al Krow]

1 hour ago, krispn said:

If it’s a fender style design it likely similar to BMT 2-10-2 with some boost on the BT and cut only on the mids. Also a fender style is in and around 40-400-4k but with a  broader band boost then in other amps. If it’s a bax type there sslightly more interactivity but as ever using eyes over ears isn’t the best way to set eq.
I’d have thought the DG AO would have been an already light weight head with a more flexible EQ and switchable drive. The newer OBT1000 are a tad more versatile than the 500w but it’s still a ‘one sound’ head and any tonal changes would require tweaking between songs. A decent pedal would give an options drive but if your covers band is anything like mine one sound with a touch of drive when needed should cover most gigs? 

The DG AO is an excellent amp, but paired with a BB2 lacks the warmth that my Mesa M6 delivers.

Guess I'm on a quest for "bottled Mesa M6" in a lightweight amp, very probably hybrid. I've been told by folk in the know that the Berg BIAmp could be the ticket and I'm looking forward to A/Bing one post lockdown.

[krispn]

The orange isn’t a bad amp -a venue we play well before Covid-19 (actually two venues) use the OTB as the house bass rig with an orange cab (one venue is head/cab the other I think is the combo and it’s not terrible but you’d be getting a more defined sound with your DG and more flexibility on managing the lows with a very clear knowledge of your eq points etc. I tended to bring my own gear but did a few shows with the house rig as we were using the in house pa for the room and the amps were really only for stage monitoring.

I wonder if the cab just isn’t a good match and an alternative cab would be an option?   Or does running a drive in front warm things up? Not sure which drive pedals you’re using buy you were singing the praises of the VT Bass. Wouldn’t that add the warmth you fee is lacking? 
 

If the Mesa is coming in at what 12kg that’s surely not too much of a schlep considering how good they sound? My TB600 is about the same weight and it’s a pretty easy two handed lift in a soft case or gator moulded plastic case and that’s including up and down stairs on some gigs.

 
Clearly though you have your mind set on the Orange (this week) so good luck and I hope it’s gonna tick whatever boxes the others don’t quite reach. 

[Cuzzie]

3 hours ago, Al Krow said:

The DG AO is an excellent amp, but paired with a BB2 lacks the warmth that my Mesa M6 delivers.

Guess I'm on a quest for "bottled Mesa M6" in a lightweight amp, very probably hybrid. I've been told by folk in the know that the Berg BIAmp could be the ticket and I'm looking forward to A/Bing one post lockdown.

Those Berg BI Amps are really good - it’s got a very nice UI where all your tweaks, setting your own centre points of frequencies, levels of compression, dialling in the drive you want can be done in the LCD screen, flicking through the menu and saved, also you can store Cab profiles on a memory stick and upload them to match what (if) Berg cab you are using. Firmware updates done via memory stick so you don’t need to be connected to a PC, download it on to a stick, transfer across.

It also has filters - you can literally do everything on the unit.

Edited March 10, 2021 by Cuzzie

[krispn]

They are pretty nifty🙂

[EBS_freak]

2 hours ago, Cuzzie said:

Those Berg BI Amps are really good - it’s got a very nice UI where all your tweaks, setting your own centre points of frequencies, levels of compression, dialling in the drive you want can be done in the LCD screen, flicking through the menu and saved, also you can store Cab profiles on a memory stick and upload them to match what (if) Berg cab you are using. Firmware updates done via memory stick so you don’t need to be connected to a PC, download it on to a stick, transfer across.

It also has filters - you can literally do everything on the unit.

It all sounds really good - but most people can't cope with EQ to begin with! There is a certain danger that having presets to match cabs starts to make people listen with their eyes instead of their ears. I guess it's all never cool... but I'm not sure if they are trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist? 

[krispn]

I was impressed with doods review of the berg stuff. Sounded good! I’ve always fancied their NV215 and I’d love to hear it via that BiAmp

[dannybuoy]

11 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Very useful and at [0.55] he notes that "Ade Emsley, head designer, put the preamp of the AD200 into the Mk2".

Have they changed the EQ settings so we now have both boost and cut? Our own Dan Veall at [7.45] is suggesting that flat is at noon with the Mk2, which is quite different to comments about the Mk1.

Orange Terror Bass | Review - YouTube

I doubt it, the AD200 has a passive EQ also that isn't flat at noon. Maybe Dan was just going off of the graphics by the knobs and the manual and assuming they were regular boost/cut (like most people would).

[LukeFRC]

5 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

There is a certain danger that having presets to match cabs starts to make people listen with their eyes instead of their ears.

I think the presets are more like a PA cab's DSP settings - to make the amplifier and cab work together for a designed sound. (which tends to be dead flat as possible in a PA cab) 

[LukeFRC]

9 hours ago, Al Krow said:

The DG AO is an excellent amp, but paired with a BB2 lacks the warmth that my Mesa M6 delivers.

Guess I'm on a quest for "bottled Mesa M6" in a lightweight amp, very probably hybrid. I've been told by folk in the know that the Berg BIAmp could be the ticket and I'm looking forward to A/Bing one post lockdown.

"bottled Mesa M6" - didn't you have that with the model on the HX stomp you have/had?  

[Al Krow]

6 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

"bottled Mesa M6" - didn't you have that with the model on the HX stomp you have/had?  

Not even close! 

[LukeFRC]

2 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Not even close! 

why? is the M9 that different from the M6 tonally? 

[Al Krow]

1 minute ago, LukeFRC said:

why? is the M9 that different from the M6 tonally? 

Nope it won't be. But I'm not really sure what the connection with the HX Stomp is?

[LukeFRC]

26 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Nope it won't be. But I'm not really sure what the connection with the HX Stomp is?

You want a bottled Mesa M6 - There's a M9 amp model on the stomp....

[Al Krow]

8 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

You want a bottled Mesa M6 - There's a M9 amp model on the stomp....

Ah ok gotcha. Two things (i) I don't currently have a Helix (ii) I would be (very pleasantly!) stunned if a Helix patch could closely emulate what a Mesa M9 (which you're right should be pretty identical tonally to an M6) does. I suppose the way to test it would be to bypass the preamp on an amp and feed the Helix straight into the power amp section of a clean amp such as a DG M900.

Having said that - I would be less surprised if you had said a Kemper or the new DG Quad Cortex came close just based on their reputations.

Calling @bassfan - dunno if you've come across the M9 patch on your HX Effects, buddy? But if you get a chance to A/B it with your Mesa M6, it would be interesting to see if it comes close.

[Cuzzie]

7 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Ah ok gotcha. Two things (i) I don't currently have a Helix (ii) I would be (very pleasantly!) stunned if a Helix patch could closely emulate what a Mesa M9 (which you're right should be pretty identical tonally to an M6) does. I suppose the way to test it would be to bypass the preamp on an amp and feed the Helix straight into the power amp section of a clean amp such as a DG M900.

Having said that - I would be less surprised if you had said a Kemper or the new DG Quad Cortex came close just based on their reputations.

Calling @bassfan - dunno if you've come across the M9 patch on your HX Effects, buddy? But if you get a chance to A/B it with your Mesa M6, it would be interesting to see if it comes close.

Why would the Helix family which is very bass friendly with its sounds not get it right, but Kemper or QC get it right?

Would Fractal, Hotone  get it right?

Trying to work out how you would get this conclusion, doesn’t sound like this was explored on your helixes?

[LukeFRC]

1 hour ago, Cuzzie said:

Why would the Helix family which is very bass friendly with its sounds not get it right, but Kemper or QC get it right?

Would Fractal, Hotone  get it right?

Trying to work out how you would get this conclusion, doesn’t sound like this was explored on your helixes?

[Al Krow]

10 hours ago, dannybuoy said:

I doubt it, the AD200 has a passive EQ also that isn't flat at noon. Maybe Dan was just going off of the graphics by the knobs and the manual and assuming they were regular boost/cut (like most people would).

It would be a shame if this was being stated incorrectly on formal well respected YT reviews such as Dan's, as I get the impression from comments on this thread, and elsewhere, that not working out that the v1 OTB was boost only on the treble and bass EQs, and thinking that neutral was 12 noon, was a key reason for a number of OTB owners giving up on their amps. 

(Tbf - it's not unique: we've had similar unhelpful comments about the Spector TonePump from Spector, themselves, about the EQ being purely boost, when they are not!) 

[krispn]

That’s the thing though so many tone stacks are based of two main designs the baxandall a la B15 or the Fender and while it’s not ‘common knowledge’ as such there’s been heaps written about the Fender stack and it derivatives being ‘flat’ at 0-10-0 or 2-10-2 if folks are buying an amp with BMT it’s worth trying the above as a starting ground. 
I know it’s been covered on basschat numerous times. Plus Mesa bass amps often favoured a passive mid control but it’s not immediately obvious I think the Walkabout labelled it as passive mid - they tend to sound more musical I..e it’s less likely to screw up your sound with a passive cut only. 

Edited March 11, 2021 by krispn

[krispn]

23 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

It would be a shame if this was being stated incorrectly on formal well respected YT reviews such as Dan's, as I get the impression from comments on this thread, and elsewhere, that not working out that the v1 OTB was boost only on the treble and bass EQs, and thinking that neutral was 12 noon, was a key reason for a number of OTB owners giving up on their amps. 

(Tbf - it's not unique: we've had similar unhelpful comments about the Spector TonePump from Spector, themselves, about the EQ being purely boost, when they are not!) 

There is a bit of that eq’ing with the eyes not ears too but that’s not always as easy for folks to do. Manufacturers should be quite explicit in how to get the best form their gear and it’s naff when the manual say things like ‘Bass Control: controls the amount of bass in the signal.’ Doh! 😀

Edited March 11, 2021 by krispn

[bassfan]

10 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Calling @bassfan - dunno if you've come across the M9 patch on your HX Effects, buddy? But if you get a chance to A/B it with your Mesa M6, it would be interesting to see if it comes close.

I haven’t. But I don’t have a stomp. The Hxfx doesn’t have the amp modellers. 😩

[Cuzzie]

5 minutes ago, bassfan said:

I haven’t. But I don’t have a stomp. The Hxfx doesn’t have the amp modellers. 😩

Well, we know the HxFx can’t do it......

[bassfan]

@Al Krow I haven’t read all the thread... why don’t you just use your M6? 

[Al Krow]

16 minutes ago, bassfan said:

I haven’t. But I don’t have a stomp. The Hxfx doesn’t have the amp modellers. 😩

Cheers buddy and doh(!) quite correct about HXFX not having the amp modellers - I'd forgotten that, lol! (which will reconfirm my superior memory skills for @dave_bass5 on all matters Helix!)

@LukeFRC - maybe on one of the Helix threads to avoid another non OT tangent 😁, it would be really good to understand what the individual components of the M9 patch are? As I said, I would be positively stunned if a multifx patch can emulate the complex harmonics provided by something like a tube preamp paired with a class AB poweramp you get in the Mesa M9 (and M6).

Edited March 11, 2021 by Al Krow

[Al Krow]

Just now, bassfan said:

@Al Krow I haven’t read all the thread... why don’t you just use your M6? 

I do, pretty much every day mate! 😉

But I'm not lugging a 25lb head on the road to gigs with my dodgy back. I'll leave you 6' strapping youngsters to do that. I suspect I'm going to end up with a BIAmp for the road - been highly recommended by a dodgy mate of mine, who has a M6 at home 😁