Orange amps, one trick pony?

[Cuzzie]

13 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

I do, pretty much every day mate! 😉

But I'm not lugging a 25lb head on the road to gigs with my dodgy back. I'll leave you 6' strapping youngsters to do that. I suspect I'm going to end up with a BIAmp for the road - been highly recommended by a dodgy mate of mine, who has a M6 at home 😁

That amp is a behemoth-it’s almost entirely lighter than your cab.......😉

[LukeFRC]

55 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

As I said, I would be positively stunned if a multifx patch can emulate the complex harmonics provided by something like a tube preamp paired with a class AB poweramp you get in the Mesa M9 (and M6).

So it's an amp model block, not a patch.... and er - I don't know how to put this but "emulating complex harmonics provided by something like a tube preamp paired with a class AB power amp"  - that is precisely what the Line6 stuff is designed to do. 

[Al Krow]

12 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

So it's an amp model block, not a patch.... and er - I don't know how to put this but "emulating complex harmonics provided by something like a tube preamp paired with a class AB power amp"  - that is precisely what the Line6 stuff is designed to do. 

Well only one to find out if they have succeeded isn't there, and that would be to A/B their "free" patch against a Mesa amp. 

Not something I'm in a position to do and haven't been for about 18 months since moving on my Stomp. 

And you'll still need a decent power amp in your signal chain. So not sure how "bottled" the fx sim + power amp route would be, even if it comes close to emulating the real thing.

You could go FRFR, of course, but that's a whole 'nother story and not something I'm looking to do having considered the weight options in some detail a while back. 

Edited March 11, 2021 by Al Krow

[bassfan]

1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

I do, pretty much every day mate! 😉

But I'm not lugging a 25lb head on the road to gigs with my dodgy back. I'll leave you 6' strapping youngsters to do that. I suspect I'm going to end up with a BIAmp for the road - been highly recommended by a dodgy mate of mine, who has a M6 at home 😁

Don’t know what you are talking about. 😂

[thodrik]

I moved on my M6 because it was so loud and clean and I wanted something I could dial in a bit of preamp dirt at useable volumes like I could with the Walkabout.

I ended up with the Mesa Big Block with is probably the dirtiest, most valvey hybrid head I have tried. The EQ on the Big Block is fairly agricultural compared to the Walkabout or the M6, as the Big Block only really does 'one sound' which is generally a  mid heavy, gritty, grindy rock tone. Luckily that is the exact sound I am looking for. You can kind clean up the sound by backing off the gain but it just does not achieve that wide open clean sound of the M6. However, I already had an EBS Fafner which could do the same kinda tone as the M6 but had a more forgiving volume taper!

Though back to the actual thread I would have bought the Orange AD200 several times over it had actually had a DI! I really like the Orange guitar amps as well and have been after one of the discontinued Thunderverb heads for a while. 

[Bankai]

12 hours ago, thodrik said:

!

Though back to the actual thread I would have bought the Orange AD200 several times over it had actually had a DI! I really like the Orange guitar amps as well and have been after one of the discontinued Thunderverb heads for a while. 

It has a slave output. Connect that to a DI, and voila. Same, if not better end result than if it had a built in one.

That’s what I do with mine. 

Edited March 12, 2021 by Bankai

[dannybuoy]

6 hours ago, Bankai said:

It has a slave output. Connect that to a DI, and voila. Same, if not better end result than if it had a built in one.

That’s what I do with mine. 

You can also connect something like a Radial JDI or Darkglass Elements in parallel with the speaker cab to capture the additional character that the power tubes provide with the addition of a speaker sim.

[thodrik]

While those tactics are highly effective it still requires more items of gear that you would not need if the amp had a DI built in to it in the first place. 

I mean it is not an absolute deal breaker and it is an awesome amp irrespective, but I generally like an amp to have a DI with a pre/post EQ option.

Edited March 12, 2021 by thodrik

[Beer of the Bass]

39 minutes ago, thodrik said:

While those tactics are highly effective it still requires more items of gear that you would not need if the amp had a DI built in to it in the first place. 

I mean it is not an absolute deal breaker and it is an awesome amp irrespective, but I generally like an amp to have a DI with a pre/post EQ option.

I'm surprised that there are still modern production valve amps that don't offer good DI options. The ones on my Ampeg PF50T are really useful, and the "soundguy acceptance factor" is way more favourable than with a DI box connected to the back of the rig somewhere.

[thodrik]

14 minutes ago, Beer of the Bass said:

I'm surprised that there are still modern production valve amps that don't offer good DI options. The ones on my Ampeg PF50T are really useful, and the "soundguy acceptance factor" is way more favourable than with a DI box connected to the back of the rig somewhere.

Exactly. 'Soundguy acceptance factor' is a big deal.

I mean, if the soundperson has the view of 'I just want to use a DI box into the front input of the amp' it is difficult enough to negotiate the use of my own DI from my head, let alone trying to get them to (a) mic up my cab or (b) run a slave output to the back of my amp which runs into my own personal external DI box. Items (a) and (b) are needed to make the most of the immense tone of a valve amp with no DI attached, however in the soundperson's defence, sometimes they just do not have time to do (a) or (b) given time pressures between changeovers etc. 

Not all big valve amps have a DI. I'm pretty sure Matamps don't have a DI either but I might be wrong. 
 

[Bankai]

As a sound engineer I’d be far more accepting of an external DI box connected to a slave (or in the speaker chain), than I would a built in DI.

Edited March 12, 2021 by Bankai

[Cuzzie]

Let’s be honest - a decent DI box is nota massive bit of kit to carry, even a REDDI is pretty manageable

[Bankai]

My recommendation would be an Orchid Micro if you want to keep things small. Or an Orchid standard if you can afford the space.

Last time I recorded (albeit a different amp) I used a micro connected to the slave output, in preference to the built in one. Micro is (barely) pictured on top of the amp.

Edited March 12, 2021 by Bankai

[Cuzzie]

Big fan of my Radial JDI - would love to try a Khan,but i have no need for it

[Bankai]

11 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

Big fan of my Radial JDI - would love to try a Khan,but i have no need for it

If I had a Radial JDX Reactor I’d probably stick that on everything. 

[Bankai]

Of course, if anyone feels so inclined as a result of this discussion..

 

[Tee]

I still have my MKI TB. I originally swapped the valves for old 12AT7s and it became a clean machine. An inline attenuator sorted the DI level (not that sound guys every used the onboard DI anyway). In that respect, would I notice a difference with the MKII if i stayed on clean?

[Cat Burrito]

15 minutes ago, Tee said:

I still have my MKI TB. I originally swapped the valves for old 12AT7s and it became a clean machine. An inline attenuator sorted the DI level (not that sound guys every used the onboard DI anyway). In that respect, would I notice a difference with the MKII if i stayed on clean?

In a nutshell, not a significant one. I did the same with my Mk1. I sold it on after years of use, missed it and wound up buying the Mk2 when that came out.

I haven't been able to compare the side by side but it's been tamed. The only difference is that you wouldn't have that attenuator sticking out the side, an issue that never bothered me.

[uk_lefty]

This thread is an interesting read. The rehearsal space I use sometimes has an Orange head and cab in the room and I hated them. I like to just plug n play and I couldn't fathom the controls at all, I don't mind a bit of grit in the sound but this was just buzz saw awful, I didn't realise they could do a decent clean sound. I really like the look of the Orange gear, might have to look closer now if a little time invested in learning how to tweak it means I can have super clean and vintage tube in one package....