Bass Solos

[Eight]

There's only so much stuff I can cover in lessons (I ask a LOT of questions) so this is something we've not really looked at yet but it keeps getting mentioned.

I need to work on bass solos (hell I need to work on improvising bass riffs as well ) but whilst I know the main scales etc. I'm just not feeling the solo vibe yet. Can you recommend any tracks or artists that might be good inspiration?

Er... no jazz please (no offense intended).

Cheers guys.

[timloudon]

I've found that, although I don't really like listening to jazz, there's a lot to be learned from the genre.

I think what will help would be to learn about things like phrasing, and how to deal with harmony. Learning the melodies of anything is always a good idea.

[XB26354]

I'd respectfully ask why you feel the need to work on bass soloing if you're not playing jazz? Although it is talked about a lot it is very rarely heard/asked for outside of modern jazz circles. If you a break that you need to fill, then as mentioned above learning melodies (and very importantly, how the melody relates to the underlying harmony), perhaps adding a stronger rhythmic element if you need to groove along to the drums.
Cheers
Mat

[timloudon]

Maybe try not to think of it in terms of an either or situation. You could think as improving your melodic playing, which is useful in any style of music - you can use this new skill to outdo stupid guitards who think they can play amazing solos, or to play counter melodies and such.

[Eight]

[quote name='XB26354' post='443628' date='Mar 24 2009, 12:15 PM']I'd respectfully ask why you feel the need to work on bass soloing if you're not playing jazz? Although it is talked about a lot it is very rarely heard/asked for outside of modern jazz circles.[/quote]
Well...

For a sense of completeness maybe. Because I'm not currently learning bass just from a functional point of view. Because its challenging. Or just because there's nothing more or less wrong with a bass solo than there is a lead guitar solo. And I don't believe you need to play jazz to pull it off.

I don't gig, I'm not even in a band. So I have no whinging guitard telling me what I can and can't play. I just have limited ability.

[Guest subaudio]

I like this guy (Andy Irvine)

[url="http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=61175344"]undefined[/url]

I have just started doing solo's and for me I aproach them as a melody, I also like to try to think of horn parts for inspiration too, just take your time and practice is the best advise I have really

Edited March 24, 2009 by subaudio

[crez5150]

Think your best bet is to pick songs you know and then transfer the melody to your bass.... I really can't see the point in Solo bass.....

[XB26354]

[quote name='Eight' post='443644' date='Mar 24 2009, 12:23 PM']Well...

For a sense of completeness maybe. Because I'm not currently learning bass just from a functional point of view. Because its challenging. Or just because there's nothing more or less wrong with a bass solo than there is a lead guitar solo. And I don't believe you need to play jazz to pull it off.

I don't gig, I'm not even in a band. So I have no whinging guitard telling me what I can and can't play. I just have limited ability.[/quote]
I wouldn't try to limit yourself be believing you need to play or not play any style. It just so happens that jazz is the main style of music that specifically demands all instruments improvise at some point. The bass is and always was an accompaniment instrument in every style of music (including those where there is no tuned bass instrument, like South American and Indian music). As you say there is nothing wrong with bass solos or developing your facility to play them on bass. "Soloing" in many bass situations means taking the bass line and elaborating upon it, with reference to the melody (if there is one). As treble clef instruments tend to do the bulk of soloing they are a good place to start.

[Eight]

Cheers for all the advice so far guys.

[quote name='XB26354' post='443678' date='Mar 24 2009, 12:38 PM']I wouldn't try to limit yourself be believing you need to play or not play any style. It just so happens that jazz is the main style of music that specifically demands all instruments improvise at some point.[/quote]
Its not that I'm restricting myself to styles as such. I just don't like jazz (I know we've discussed using such sweeping statements before though) so don't really want to sit through hours of the stuff unless it really is going to be the best way to develop.

Improvisation is something I'm doing because I greatly respect musicians (even jazz ones ) who have this skill and its an ability I want for myself.

I think I'll have to schedule practice time on doing as you (and the other fine folk here) suggest, looking at treble clef instruments, building out the rhythms and trying to incorporate the melody.

Cheers mate.

[thisnameistaken]

I used to be in a band which insisted on everybody taking a solo somewhere in the set, and I'd get called in a different tune every night, and I just didn't know enough to solo "properly".

So what I'd do is just try to communicate what I was feeling as much through noise/rhythm as through notes. Just try to get the audience to understand my vibe rather than try to give them anything especially pretty or clever to listen to (our pianist was the solo king and there was no point trying to compete with him!).

So I'd avoid gimmicks, avoid slap, avoid "licks", just get a bit animal with the instrument and hope it made sense in their heads. It usually did, and it got me out of having to "show off".

I was fortunate in having a drummer who was very talented and who I was very close to. He really made it work, I think.

[lowdown]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='443796' date='Mar 24 2009, 02:19 PM']So I'd avoid gimmicks, avoid slap, avoid "licks", just get a bit animal with the instrument and hope it made sense in their heads. [b]It usually did,[/b] . [/quote]

And where was this?
Rampton?

Garry

[Bilbo]

Don't learn improvisation/soloing from bass players. Try other instruments; sax, trumpet, trombone (good for similar range) piano (guitar is another one to avoid becuase it is sometimes too pattern oritenated andsimilar to bass.

As for jazz, don't try to learn it. Its for real men who can grow facial hair.

[Eight]

Cheers for the thoughts Bilbo. Must admit I'd never really thought about using the instruments you mentioned as a source of inspiration. I even neglected to think about piano despite spending a good amount of time playing it.

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='443897' date='Mar 24 2009, 03:43 PM']As for jazz, don't try to learn it. Its for real men who can grow facial hair.[/quote]
My facial hair is legendary. But to play jazz you also need enough hair in your ears to muffle the sound.

[YouMa]

Derek smalls. A bass odyssey no contest.

Edited March 24, 2009 by YouMa

[RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE]

I suppose if you're not in a band, you have time to learn solos, flashy stuff etc.
That said,it's still a challenge.
I think you like metal as do I . Apart from the usual names,
You could try some Jason Newstead,Michael Anthony Geezer Butler etc. Randy Coven.
Don't try Nikki Sixx techniques tho' or you could o d a lot
:

Edited March 24, 2009 by RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE

[Simon]

Check out Ed Poole: [url="http://www.myspace.com/edpoole"]http://www.myspace.com/edpoole[/url]

Some of its Jazz, but check out the playing and solo on his track Spin! Pure groove!

Edited March 24, 2009 by Simon

[Eight]

[quote name='RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE' post='444022' date='Mar 24 2009, 05:47 PM']I suppose if you're not in a band, you have time to learn solos, flashy stuff etc.[/quote]
Yeah exactly. Doesn't really matter if I don't use it much.

[quote]I think you like metal as do I . Apart from the usual names,
You could try some Jason Newstead,Michael Anthony Geezer Butler etc. Randy Coven.
Don't try Nikki Sixx techniques tho' or you could o d a lot [/quote]
Yup - well remembered - I'm a metal fan. Michael Anthony the estate agent? Damn you Google!!!!

Will take a listen to your suggestions - must admit, I don't think I've listened to the bands those guys played in since before I started bass. (Not that long ago). When I was a bit younger, we used to have a rule that if you didn't listen to at least one Black Sabbath track a month then you got a punch in the face. I'm glad that rule is no longer in effect, I'd look like tBBC by the end of it.

Cheers.

Edited March 24, 2009 by Eight

[Eight]

[quote name='Simon' post='444076' date='Mar 24 2009, 06:36 PM']Some of its Jazz, but check out the playing and solo on his track Spin! Pure groove![/quote]
I feel nauseous.

I don't think I'm pregnant so it must be the bloody jazz (jazzish?) on that MySpace page!?!?!?! Lol. I hate coming across so negative about something - I really do have quite an open mind, honest.

[The Funk]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='443897' date='Mar 24 2009, 03:43 PM']Don't learn improvisation/soloing from bass players. Try other instruments; sax, trumpet, trombone (good for similar range) piano (guitar is another one to avoid becuase it is sometimes too pattern oritenated andsimilar to bass.[/quote]

Thank you! Someone had to say it.

Personally, though, I would cop as many blues-rock guitar licks as possible as well. Patterns are fine for getting cool sounding stuff under your belt fast. Yes, they're ultimately limiting and can be extremely repetitive but then [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhythm_changes"]Rhythm Changes[/url] can be a bit repetitive too!

[urb]

[quote name='The Funk' post='444168' date='Mar 24 2009, 07:41 PM']Thank you! Someone had to say it.

Personally, though, I would cop as many blues-rock guitar licks as possible as well. Patterns are fine for getting cool sounding stuff under your belt fast. Yes, they're ultimately limiting and can be extremely repetitive but then [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhythm_changes"]Rhythm Changes[/url] can be a bit repetitive too![/quote]

Yeah I was going to suggest try learning some blues lines - Billy Sheehan has a pretty cool Hammond Trio called Niacin that mix funk, blues and rock with a touch of jazz as well - he does some nice stuff and is actually in the pocket a lot of the time - have a look here:



And you'll probably hate this - but this is Vic Wooten in a fairly tasteful mood live with the Dave Matthews band - check out the spaces between the phrases and the repetition how he builds the dynamics with some actually very simple phrases - mostly derived from an E minor scale... with you extra 'jazz' notes for interest;



Hope they give you some food for thought

M

[Eight]

Cheers Urb,

I'll give those a listen this evening - unfortunately, my inconsiderate employers don't realise that learning bass is the most important thing I could be doing with my time. To help ensure my music knowledge doesn't progress during work hours, they block videos.

[steve]

how about some bach?

[Eight]

[quote name='steve' post='445385' date='Mar 25 2009, 08:31 PM']how about some bach?[/quote]
I gave up classical piano years ago.

Actually... joking aside and remembering I'm new to bass, I've seen Bach mentioned a few times for bassists. Why is this?

[steve]

[quote name='Eight' post='445390' date='Mar 25 2009, 08:35 PM']I gave up classical piano years ago.

Actually... joking aside and remembering I'm new to bass, I've seen Bach mentioned a few times for bassists. Why is this?[/quote]

there are quite a few solo pieces that are suited to the range of a bass, there's a site mentioned in this forum quite recently where you can download the notation in dots form, so you get to practice your reading while you learn some interesting tunes. Melbay also does a couple of books with bach transcriptions with added tab

[Eight]

Ah ok. Cheers mate, I'll have a look for those and give them a shot.