Emperor’s New Clothes?

[Open E]

I’ve owned an early 80s Fender Jazz Bass, an 80s Status and an 80s Jaydee and they all sounded good when new. What I’d like to know is, is it really worth spending the huge amount of money these bases command nowadays? I’m kind of seduced into the idea of buying a genuinely road worn 60 or 70 Fender Jazz but I’m not convinced it would sound much better than my current Squier Classic Vibe 70s Jazz. 
Please enlighten me.

[chris_b]

In the 60's and 70's Fender QC was patchy. Sadly, with Fender, age and "vintage" is not a guarantee of quality. Play them before you buy.

If I was after a Fender Jazz bass, the only model I'd be looking is at the Fender American Standard from 2012 - 2016. They were gems.

[Lfalex v1.1]

To answer a question with a question;

What do you currently own besides the Squier CV jazz?

There's not much point in duplicating instruments you might already own.

Status and Jaydee basses will be big money, both new or second-hand. There are other, equally worthy manufactures that could also be considered, depending upon your taste etc.

[Lozz196]

33 minutes ago, chris_b said:

In the 60's and 70's Fender QC was patchy. Sadly, with Fender, age and "vintage" is not a guarantee of quality. Play them before you buy.

If I was after a Fender Jazz bass, the only model I'd be looking is at the Fender American Standard from 2012 - 2016. They were gems.

I’d also put the US Professionals forward, they’re the only Jazz basses I’ve really clicked with (tho did change pickups to the Custom Shop 62s as found in the 2012-16 range).

[hooky_lowdown]

It's been discussed here alot, have a look around. The reason people like the old basses is because they're worn in, i.e the neck has soft edges and feels real nice in the hand. Also they like the relic aesthetic.

Are old basses worth it, yes and no. If you like the genuine, authenticity then yes. However, the MIM Fender roadworn, has a worn in feel, worn in look, although all artificially done, and a fraction of the cost of the originals.

Both will sound the same or at least very similar, both will feel the same, although the original will feel slightly nicer. So it depends on what you hold greatest - authenticity or cost.

The Squier CV range are very good, but not the same as original fenders, for feel, sound, playability, the fender is superior. The old fenders are made of high quality parts, which have lasted 45-60 years and still going strong. The CV range I doubt will get close to that.

The CV range are really nice for what they are, but the difference between an original fender and a CV is almost night and day.

As mentioned, the QC is hit and miss, I'm always sceptical about 60s/70s fenders in almost mint condition. People would strip the paintwork, modify them if they were "players" back in the 70s and 80s, but those left under the bed for 50 years - I'm always unsure about!

Edited March 20, 2021 by hooky_lowdown

[Open E]

24 minutes ago, Lfalex v1.1 said:

To answer a question with a question;

What do you currently own besides the Squier CV jazz?

There's not much point in duplicating instruments you might already own.

Status and Jaydee basses will be big money, both new or second-hand. There are other, equally worthy manufactures that could also be considered, depending upon your taste etc.

I also own a Warwick Corvette Rockbass Short Scale 2017ish and like the middle growl but prefer the feel of the long scale Squier,

[Open E]

18 minutes ago, hooky_lowdown said:

It's been discussed here alot, have a look around. The reason people like the old basses is because they're worn in, i.e the neck has soft edges and feels real nice in the hand. Also they like the relic aesthetic.

Are old basses worth it, yes and no. If you like the genuine, authenticity then yes. However, the MIM Fender roadworn, has a worn in feel, worn in look, although all artificially done, and a fraction of the cost of the originals.

Both will sound the same or at least very similar, both will feel the same, although the original will feel slightly nicer. So it depends on what you hold greatest - authenticity or cost.

The Squier CV range are very good, but not the same as original fenders, for feel, sound, playability, the fender is superior. The old fenders are made of high quality parts, which have lasted 45-60 years and still going strong. The CV range I doubt will get close to that.

The CV range are really nice for what they are, but the difference between an original fender and a CV is almost night and day.

As mentioned, the QC is hit and miss, I'm always sceptical about 60s/70s fenders in almost mint condition. People would strip the paintwork, modify them if they were "players" back in the 70s and 80s, but those left under the bed for 50 years - I'm always unsure about!

Great advice thanks

[Lw.]

Oldest discussion on the internet, bit harsh to compare premium gear from the 80s to modern budget gear though. 

As ever, it's marginal gains. At the lower end maybe a £600 bass is twice as good as a £300 bass, maybe. But is a £1200 bass twice as good as a £600 bass? Maybe but probably not. 

Ive just bought a Mexican fender, it's nowhere near as nice (using any measurement) as my custom shop fender, but then you wouldn't expect it to be. 

You buy the nicest playing bass you can afford then don't worry about the rest, 1-to-1 improvement by the pound just doesn't happen in any industry. 

[Lozz196]

Very good points there. For some reason I just can’t not play US Fenders, yet my Squier VM77 Jazz is easily good enough to gig with. Are my US Fenders better, well yes, but I wouldn’t say they’re 4 times better. 

[Geek99]

2 hours ago, Open E said:

I’ve owned an early 80s Fender Jazz Bass, an 80s Status and an 80s Jaydee and they all sounded good when new. What I’d like to know is, is it really worth spending the huge amount of money these bases command nowadays? I’m kind of seduced into the idea of buying a genuinely road worn 60 or 70 Fender Jazz but I’m not convinced it would sound much better than my current Squier Classic Vibe 70s Jazz. 

It probably won’t, by any measure that is real-world meaningful

Edited March 20, 2021 by Geek99

[uncle psychosis]

If you want something really cool with a sense of history attached, buy a vintage bass. 

If you just want a really good instrument, buy a good modern bass. 

There's no magic in vintage instruments. But they are definitely cool. 

[hooky_lowdown]

3 minutes ago, uncle psychosis said:

If you want something really cool with a sense of history attached, buy a vintage bass. 

If you just want a really good instrument, buy a good modern bass. 

There's no magic in vintage instruments. But they are definitely cool. 

The magic in vintage instruments is the worn in feel, it can be mimiced but never as good as the genuine article. Plus years and years of wear, smoke and beer. Old wood has its own tonal qualities which just can't be mimiced.

[ezbass]

Vintage instruments, provided they were built well in the first place, have a lovely feel to them and, if old enough, the magnets in the pickups may have degaussed somewhat, adding some tonal magic. These things are also able to be recreated with roadworn builds fitted with vintage voiced pickups. I’ve owned a ‘63 P Bass and 2 roadworn builds (a P and a Mustang) and the RWs hit the mark for me in terms of that feel and tone. However, real vintage instruments do have that caché, if you’re into the kind of thing and have deep pockets (Lady Ez encouraged me to buy the ‘63 as it was a good investment, long since realised).

[Lfalex v1.1]

As EZ says, Genuine Vintage instruments are a nice thing to have 

IF you have the time, buy a nice new instrument (take your pick!) and let it mature in your possession. Then it's your vintage bass.

[ezbass]

27 minutes ago, Lfalex v1.1 said:

As Ez says, Genuine Vintage instruments are a nice thing to have 

IF you have the time, buy a nice new instrument (take your pick!) and let it mature in your possession. Then it's your vintage bass.

The advantage with this suggestion is that you’re not limited only to companies that were producing in the ‘50s - ‘80s (I believe instruments from the ‘80s are becoming more in vogue; Elite P Bass anyone?), newer builders become a choice, which also widens the choice of designs too.

[Geek99]

1 hour ago, ezbass said:

Vintage instruments, provided they were built well in the first place, have a lovely feel to them and, if old enough, the magnets in the pickups may have degaussed somewhat, adding some tonal magic. These things are also able to be recreated with roadworn builds fitted with vintage voiced pickups. I’ve owned a ‘63 P Bass and 2 roadworn builds (a P and a Mustang) and the RWs hit the mark for me in terms of that feel and tone. However, real vintage instruments do have that caché, if you’re into the kind of thing and have deep pockets (Lady Ez encouraged me to buy the ‘63 as it was a good investment, long since realised).

Keeper ! That’s her, not the bass obviously 

[LukeFRC]

4 hours ago, Open E said:

I’ve owned an early 80s Fender Jazz Bass, an 80s Status and an 80s Jaydee and they all sounded good when new. What I’d like to know is, is it really worth spending the huge amount of money these bases command nowadays? I’m kind of seduced into the idea of buying a genuinely road worn 60 or 70 Fender Jazz but I’m not convinced it would sound much better than my current Squier Classic Vibe 70s Jazz. 
Please enlighten me.

So your dilemma is between a £4000+  original 1960's jazz or the £300 Squier you currently have? 

I would suggest there's a heck of a lot between those price points that you could have a lot of fun trying. 

[Burns-bass]

Objectively speaking, they’re both built the same way so you’d expect little difference. My 60s jazz (all original) plays wonderfully but pickup output is very low. Modern jazz (based on a 60s bass) has a much higher output.

60s bass looks better, modern bass sounds better. Difference in price: £7,000.

Personally, I don’t think it’s worth it (I bought my 60s bass 20 years ago). Years of experience with 70s basses leads me to conclude that these aren’t worth the premium at all.

[NancyJohnson]

14 hours ago, Open E said:

is it really worth spending the huge amount of money these bases command nowadays?

No.

Like the Banksy thread demonstrates; ownership is about vanity, price paid, basking in the glory, bragging rights. 

It does make me chuckle when people are looking for a year of birth bass; honestly, what is the actual point of that?

Vintage instruments aren't going to make you play better but they might make you feel better about yourself.  Will anyone really care you're playing a 60s or 70s bass?  Nope.  Will anyone be able to hear the difference?  Almost certainly, no.

[Geek99]

23 minutes ago, NancyJohnson said:

No.

Like the Banksy thread demonstrates; ownership is about vanity, price paid, basking in the glory, bragging rights. 

It does make me chuckle when people are looking for a year of birth bass; honestly, what is the actual point of that?

Vintage instruments aren't going to make you play better but they might make you feel better about yourself.  Will anyone really care you're playing a 60s or 70s bass?  Nope.  Will anyone be able to hear the difference?  Almost certainly, no.

What he said. What I said.
No one who isn’t a bass player will even notice the “real thing” either visually or aurally 

[uk_lefty]

11 hours ago, Lfalex v1.1 said:

As EZ says, Genuine Vintage instruments are a nice thing to have 

IF you have the time, buy a nice new instrument (take your pick!) and let it mature in your possession. Then it's your vintage bass.

This is my approach. I think vintage basses are a real minefield. Even having bought one to fix up its been a frustrating experience. Instead I "invested" in a bass that I will gig and in time may have maintained its value. Am thinking the same with some of the latest Fenders with their nice colours, perhaps they will be worth something later but I wouldn't be shy about gigging them now or letting my kids have a go on them. 

[gjones]

I came into some money, a while ago, and seriously thought about buying a vintage instrument, to play and also as an investment.

But then I played a few, that were owned by friends of mine, and just didn't like them.

They didn't play that well and they looked frankly.......a bit skanky. With a build up of decades of muck and various gunk on the necks and bridges, if I had bought them, I would have needed to give them a good rub down with a wire brush and dettol, when I got them home.

I also didn't like the thought of buying a vintage bass, sight unseen, from someone in another part of the country. If I didn't like it I'd be stuck with it.

So in the end I bought a 10 year old Fender Roadworn Jazz, locally. Which has that played in feel without the  general mankyness of the 'real deal'.

I spent the money I had left on a new Fender Elite Precision, which is a great bass, incredibly versatile and in 50 years time will, itself, probably be a sought after, vintage bass.

 

Edit: after reading this back it sounds a bit like a letter from the VIZ letters page

Edited March 25, 2021 by gjones

[NancyJohnson]

17 minutes ago, gjones said:

I came into some money...

When my mum passed away I bought a Spector Euro LT with a little of the money left to me in the estate.  She was always supportive in my musical ventures, so it seemed fitting. 

Again, while it's all subjective, it plays nicely, does what I want sonically.  This is giving me more pleasure than an old 60s Fender ever would.

[chris_b]

I own a 1968 Fender Precision and while it wasn't quite a "dog", it was nothing special. I gigged and recorded with it for 25 years and it worked, a) because there was no internet temptation to make me want to sell it, and b) because to the rest of the world (including a couple of good producers) a bass is a bass.

I wouldn't buy another 60's Fender but since owning a 2006 Mike Lull P bass I would certainly buy another. The Lull is several orders of magnitude better than my old Fender. If you're looking to spend "Vintage" levels of cash on a bass, only do so after checking out a Mike Lull bass first.

We buy basses for ourselves, a Squire will work just as well for the band and an audience. 

[Burns-bass]

19 hours ago, Open E said:

I’ve owned an early 80s Fender Jazz Bass, an 80s Status and an 80s Jaydee and they all sounded good when new. What I’d like to know is, is it really worth spending the huge amount of money these bases command nowadays? I’m kind of seduced into the idea of buying a genuinely road worn 60 or 70 Fender Jazz but I’m not convinced it would sound much better than my current Squier Classic Vibe 70s Jazz. 
Please enlighten me.

This from the marketplace would blow a genuine 70s Fender out of the water.