Hellzero Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 First of all, I'm a huge Beatles fan as without them, the music wouldn't be the same today as they really influenced everyone, even those pretending the opposite. There are a few bass players milestones in bass playing and contribution to the fame of this instrument. The first of all being Monk Montgomery, the first electric bass player who, pushed by the visionary Lionel Hampton, used it and adopted it. For the first time, the bass wasn't just a rhythmic instrument whose notes weren't heard, but a rhythmic instrument whose notes can contribute to the melody. The second milestone is, of course, James Jamerson with his complex melodic lines that he was able to play completely drunk. The third is the always forgotten Carol Kaye known for her ability to record bass or guitar quicker and better than any other musician, maybe not as inventive as others, but always perfect and playing what she was asked. The fourth is Paul McCartney as he had integrated the previous musicians knowledge (often without even knowing it as he likes to say) in his approach of bass and made the bass heard on any record. He is also very melodic in his playing, which pushed the bass to the front and at the same level as guitars. The fifth is Jaco Pastorius even if Percy Jones was playing fretless as a lead instrument before him, Jaco was always under the spotlight liking to show off. And don't forget that if Paul is under appreciated, it's only because he's a heavy smoker cheapskate vegetarian... 🤣 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 My bass players who changed the world, rather than just great players, list is a short one, Paul McCartney, James Jamerson and Larry Graham. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stingray5 Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 12 minutes ago, chris_b said: My bass players who changed the world, rather than just great players, list is a short one, Paul McCartney, James Jamerson and Larry Graham. +1 (x2) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacDaddy Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 I'd say Jet Harris. IMO unsurpassed in terms of influence in the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 13 minutes ago, MacDaddy said: I'd say Jet Harris. IMO unsurpassed in terms of influence in the UK. Bof. I can't say I've ever noticed the fellow (yes, I was there at the time...). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, MacDaddy said: I'd say Jet Harris. IMO unsurpassed in terms of influence in the UK. He probably is but didn't change the way bass players played or viewed their position in the band or song. Edited March 25, 2021 by chris_b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 Hmm.. We are 3 pages into a conversation about McCartney, and haven't heard anything from @Bluewine, hope all is ok? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilp Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 I like Paul McCartney's bass playing, but do I love it? No. His song writing is mediocre at best, especially without the rest of the Beatles, and his bass playing is rhythmically quite interesting, but I can't get wildly excited about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLowDown Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 (edited) 34 minutes ago, neilp said: His song writing is mediocre at best +1. So is his bass playing. It's frequently the case that when a band has achieved the fame and fortune that the Beatles did, primarily driven by the musical expertise of screaming 12 year old girls, people in subsequent generations have been all too eager to see talent and brilliance and genius where there certainly wasn't any, as is always the case with any band so revered. In truth, there has never been any correlation between talent and the popularity achieved by any artist. People are forever reading deep meanings into their lyrics where there wasn't any too, but this is to be expected. The Beatles, including McCartney, were 4 mop-top numpties would have been entirely lost without George Martin. Edited March 25, 2021 by TheLowDown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacDaddy Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 19 minutes ago, TheLowDown said: +1. So is his bass playing. It's frequently the case that when a band has achieved the fame and fortune that the Beatles did, primarily driven by the musical expertise of screaming 12 year old girls, people in subsequent generations have been all too eager to see talent and brilliance and genius where there certainly wasn't any, as is always the case with any band so revered. In truth, there has never been any correlation between talent and the popularity achieved by any artist. People are forever reading deep meanings into their lyrics where there wasn't any too, but this is to be expected. The Beatles, including McCartney, were 4 mop-top numpties would have been entirely lost without George Martin. Beethoven was quite popular in his day... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 1 hour ago, TheLowDown said: +1. So is his bass playing. It's frequently the case that when a band has achieved the fame and fortune that the Beatles did, primarily driven by the musical expertise of screaming 12 year old girls, people in subsequent generations have been all too eager to see talent and brilliance and genius where there certainly wasn't any, as is always the case with any band so revered. In truth, there has never been any correlation between talent and the popularity achieved by any artist. People are forever reading deep meanings into their lyrics where there wasn't any too, but this is to be expected. The Beatles, including McCartney, were 4 mop-top numpties would have been entirely lost without George Martin. Don't feed the troll. 4 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nail Soup Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 I guess McCartney maybe sometimes just doesn't get recognised as a bass player, never mind a good one. He is most recognised as a songwriter, and can play most pop/rock instruments very well. He's not a good enough singer to be known as a singer. He's not (well wasn't) a bad enough singer to be known as a bass player! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilp Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 21 minutes ago, Nail Soup said: I guess McCartney maybe sometimes just doesn't get recognised as a bass player, never mind a good one. He is most recognised as a songwriter, and can play most pop/rock instruments very well. He's not a good enough singer to be known as a singer. He's not (well wasn't) a bad enough singer to be known as a bass player! In my opinion, he's an OK bass player, pianist and guitarist, whose songwriting is at best trite and at worst complete drivel, and who has survived for his entire career on a reputation that he never really deserved. Perhaps this should be part of the Emperor's New Clothes thread? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munurmunuh Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 (edited) 28 minutes ago, neilp said: whose songwriting is at best trite I'm not going to dispute that he wrote plenty of trite stuff, but "at best"....? For No One, Paperback Writer, Got To Get You Into My Life, Drive My Car, I'm Looking Through You, Things We Said Today, Blackbird..... (At the other end of his spectrum, I sometimes wonder if making John Lennon play over a 100 takes of Ob La Di Ob La Da was some kind of surrealist / provocateur performance art, the song itself merely the means to the end?) Edited March 25, 2021 by Ricky Rioli Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munurmunuh Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 51 minutes ago, Nail Soup said: not a good enough singer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 15 minutes ago, Ricky Rioli said: I'm not going to dispute that he wrote plenty of trite stuff, but "at best"....? For No One, Paperback Writer, Got To Get You Into My Life, Drive My Car, I'm Looking Through You, Things We Said Today, Blackbird..... a lot my favourite Beatle songs are written by Lennon, Macca did do some good ones but was responsible for most of the average stuff, by Beatle standards anyway, have to agree with one of @neilp's comments, some of his lyrics were/are drivel, he's a lazy lyricist who tends to writes rubbish just to get a rhyme and too often strays into twee territory 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nail Soup Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 5 minutes ago, PaulWarning said: some of his lyrics were/are drivel, he's a lazy lyricist who tends to writes rubbish just to get a rhyme and too often strays into twee territory Yes, that was his achiles heel. Twee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfoxnik Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 Can't agree at all with @Nail Soup @PaulWarning @neilp or @TheLowDown, but hey - that's the joy of good, honest debate here on Basschat... 😁 Only my opinion of course, but Eleanor Rigby (amongst many of McCartney's other songs) is a work of absolute genius. No doubting the stunning foresight and incredible contribution of George Martin of course, and the very different, complimentary genius of John Lennon, but McCartney's place as one of the very, very best songwriters of the 20th century, is absolutely assured. In addition, his bass playing contribution is right up there too and as if that isn't enough, in 2010, he was ranked No. 11 on the Rolling Stone Magazine '100 Greatest Singers of All Time'. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StickyDBRmf Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 The four of them were lucky to have each other, it was a moment in history, that's all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 26 minutes ago, StickyDBRmf said: The four of them were lucky to have each other, it was a moment in history, that's all. absolutely, the whole being greater than the sum of the parts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nail Soup Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 30 minutes ago, StickyDBRmf said: The four of them were lucky to have each other, it was a moment in history, that's all. Five if you count George Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Riva Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 Love this... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacDaddy Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 35 minutes ago, StickyDBRmf said: The four of them were lucky to have each other, it was a moment in history, that's all. A 'moment' that is still being discussed nearly 60 years later? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfoxnik Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 14 minutes ago, Old Man Riva said: Love this... Yep, me too 👍 Used to cover this in a band I was in a few years ago.. We did a mash-up of the original version and Carleen Anderson's cover of it , and it was great fun to play! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Riva Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 8 minutes ago, silverfoxnik said: Yep, me too 👍 Used to cover this in a band I was in a few years ago.. We did a mash-up of the original version and Carleen Anderson's cover of it , and it was great fun to play! The song means a great deal as it was mine and Mrs Riva’s wedding song, all those years ago - we didn’t dance, as such, more stood at the bar giggling and tried to sing along! The Rod/Faces version is wonderful also (there’s a live BBC version where Ronnie Laine sings the verse and Rod then comes in and takes the roof off with the chorus - you almost feel sorry for Ronnie!). I think Macca’s rock ‘n’ roll voice is often overlooked - his vocals on the Sgt Pepper’s track itself are right up there for me, in terms of great/iconic rock ‘n’ roll performances... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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