B String Query

[BigRedX]

12 hours ago, ead said:

I think there is an amount of physics at play here too as has said above.  For any scale length you can pick a gauge of string that works and it's not a linear relationship which I guess is why to me 45/65/85/105 strings give very uneven tension across the bass.

I've bought 5-string sets from Newtone as you can pick pretty much exactly what you want in terms of construction and gauge.  The last 5-string set I acquired had the following gauges (35" scale):  42/56/76/102/138T.  This gave me excellent uniform tension, absence of mud and the tapered B made it a doddle to fit even for a relatively heavy gauge.

Are you talking about actual tension or "stiffness" which is a combination of tension plus compliance of the string? All standard sets of string are very uneven in tension which can be seen in the figures for this manufacturers who publish them. Generally the D string will be the highest tension, and then the as you go both higher an lower the strings reduce in tension. However due to compliance, and a little bit of being used it, they do tend to "feel" relatively even to most people, especially if you play a bass with a standard Fender style headstock and bridge, as the way the strings are attached changes the compliance and goes some way to evening out the "stiffness". Of course if you play a bass with an angled headstock or anything else that gives an equal break angle for all the strings over the nut, or something with through-body stringing that increases the break angle over the bridge, this balance of actual tension and compliance will be completely wrong. Looking at the gauges that you chosen, that has probably taken a lot of trial and error to arrive at those, and of course they will only work on one particular bass.

11 hours ago, 3below said:

Just fitted D'Addario EXL170BT  balanced tension 45 - 107 set plus a D'Addario 145 B string (which gives the same tension as the others) to my 34" G&L L1505.  This has considerably improved the B string feel / response. Using flats on just about every other bass I find the 145 B  quite responsive and easy to play. The string tension calculators show why many B strings are 'floppy', they have significantly lower tension due to insufficient mass per unit length for the given scale length.  Although the calculated tensions will not be exact you can't beat the underlying Physics (spoken as a now retired Physicist ).

Balanced tension does not equal same tension, and IME is a bit of a red herring as it still relies on compliance to even out the differences in stiffness between the strings. Unfortunately for string manufacturers compliance is not only dependant on the string construction but also on the design of the bass and how the strings are fitted to it - break angles over the bridge and nut and how long the non-speaking portions of the string are, and string manufacturers have zero control over this. The only way that balanced tension can be made to work for all bassists and basses is if the manufacturers sell different balanced tension sets depending on the headstock layout and whether or not the bass is strung through body, and all of a sudden it becomes too complicated for the average bassist. Again it looks though you have found a combination that works for you, how much trial and error did you have to go through to arrive at those values? Also as above those values won't necessarily work on a different design bass.

[3below]

1 hour ago, BigRedX said:

Are you talking about actual tension or "stiffness" which is a combination of tension plus compliance of the string? All standard sets of string are very uneven in tension which can be seen in the figures for this manufacturers who publish them. Generally the D string will be the highest tension, and then the as you go both higher an lower the strings reduce in tension. However due to compliance, and a little bit of being used it, they do tend to "feel" relatively even to most people, especially if you play a bass with a standard Fender style headstock and bridge, as the way the strings are attached changes the compliance and goes some way to evening out the "stiffness". Of course if you play a bass with an angled headstock or anything else that gives an equal break angle for all the strings over the nut, or something with through-body stringing that increases the break angle over the bridge, this balance of actual tension and compliance will be completely wrong. Looking at the gauges that you chosen, that has probably taken a lot of trial and error to arrive at those, and of course they will only work on one particular bass.

Balanced tension does not equal same tension, and IME is a bit of a red herring as it still relies on compliance to even out the differences in stiffness between the strings. Unfortunately for string manufacturers compliance is not only dependant on the string construction but also on the design of the bass and how the strings are fitted to it - break angles over the bridge and nut and how long the non-speaking portions of the string are, and string manufacturers have zero control over this. The only way that balanced tension can be made to work for all bassists and basses is if the manufacturers sell different balanced tension sets depending on the headstock layout and whether or not the bass is strung through body, and all of a sudden it becomes too complicated for the average bassist. Again it looks though you have found a combination that works for you, how much trial and error did you have to go through to arrive at those values? Also as above those values won't necessarily work on a different design bass.

I started from the premise that there is not much I can do to change the non speaking portions or the bridge break angles of the bass in question.  With that given, to reduce the compliance of the B string the solution is to increase the tension in the string, hence greater mass/unit length - a bigger diameter string.  On the basis that I find 105 - 110 E strings suit my playing I used various string tension calculators to find a B string diameter that might have a similar tension (and thus from f = 4dT/L  f - deflection force, d = deflection, T = string tension, L = string length a similar compliance ).  This was/is all first approximations (different string construction and as you state many other factors come in to play) and a starting point.  I am not advocating balanced tension sets over others, I would just say use any regular 4 string set that you are happy with and try a bigger B string

 

[ead]

4 hours ago, BigRedX said:

Are you talking about actual tension or "stiffness" which is a combination of tension plus compliance of the string? All standard sets of string are very uneven in tension which can be seen in the figures for this manufacturers who publish them. Generally the D string will be the highest tension, and then the as you go both higher an lower the strings reduce in tension. However due to compliance, and a little bit of being used it, they do tend to "feel" relatively even to most people, especially if you play a bass with a standard Fender style headstock and bridge, as the way the strings are attached changes the compliance and goes some way to evening out the "stiffness". Of course if you play a bass with an angled headstock or anything else that gives an equal break angle for all the strings over the nut, or something with through-body stringing that increases the break angle over the bridge, this balance of actual tension and compliance will be completely wrong. Looking at the gauges that you chosen, that has probably taken a lot of trial and error to arrive at those, and of course they will only work on one particular bass.

Balanced tension does not equal same tension, and IME is a bit of a red herring as it still relies on compliance to even out the differences in stiffness between the strings. Unfortunately for string manufacturers compliance is not only dependant on the string construction but also on the design of the bass and how the strings are fitted to it - break angles over the bridge and nut and how long the non-speaking portions of the string are, and string manufacturers have zero control over this. The only way that balanced tension can be made to work for all bassists and basses is if the manufacturers sell different balanced tension sets depending on the headstock layout and whether or not the bass is strung through body, and all of a sudden it becomes too complicated for the average bassist. Again it looks though you have found a combination that works for you, how much trial and error did you have to go through to arrive at those values? Also as above those values won't necessarily work on a different design bass.

Agree tension and stiffness are two different properties and probably combine in the way we feel the strings under our digits.  I have found through experimentation that if I purchase/construct string sets with pretty similar string tensions, then when I'm playing I get to expend (as far as I can tell) a similar amount of effort plucking each string.  That works for me so I'm sticking with it  

[NickA]

Tried lots of low Bs in my hunt for a 5-string bass.  Mostly sounded muddy on low B ... even the stingrays weren't great ( and they sound fine when Tony Levin plays them!).  The only two that worked for me were a 35" Sandberg and a MK2 Wal.  Maybe if you play through a huge amp with a 15" speaker ( as Tony Levin does, I think) more basses will sound ok.

Could be a duff string of course.

[Drax]

On 28/03/2021 at 17:44, Silvia Bluejay said:

My favourite low B flatwound, in terms of clarity, is currently the Labella Low Tension. I can't advise on roundwounds, as I don't use them.

Absolute revelation - thank you @Silvia Bluejay

Been an expensive journey, but now have the LaBella low tension B, paired with the other 4 from existing 760FLs.. best flatwound B out there. 

[deepbass5]

The answers are all covered above.

Unfortunately when changing to 5 string it takes some experimenting to re find your sound. I played 4 strings for about sixteen - eighteen years and always used Rotosound solo strings, then shops were only stocking Elites so went with them but still stainless, when I changed to 5 string and wasn't so happy with them, I started using half wounds and pressure wounds including Status which were good and eventually discovered Nickle strings which i still prefer, and today use  D'Addario nickles on my Shuker, SIT Nickles on my MBass, and Newtone string on my E-C Ale Antia.  My next set will be a custom set of Newtone for my MBass because they feel and sound good. But who knows they may not on that bass ?

Note. I did once take a 5 string set with me back to Mr How at a bass show because the B string didn't ring at all, he gave me a replacement set which were fine, this was the second time I had a dud string in one of their sets, so it is often the string but you wont get any manufacturer to admit that, its all about what you did when putting them on, which of course it can be.   

[WAYNESWORLD]

Not wishing to teach anybody to suck eggs hear but tips I received many years ago.

Put a good bend in string by machine head before cutting length to stop winding slipping on core. 

Don’t twist the string when tightening 

As mentioned press string by bridge and nut to get defined contact.

String from nut to machine head needs a defined bend down.

A few days ago I bought an a really cheap Harley Benton MusicMan 5 string copy from Thoman to throw in the car and to play around with to practice my woeful lack of luthier skills.

After a full set up fret level nut filed , intonation and very little neck relief this bass could now live with a happily with a much more expensive guitar.But relevant to this thread the b sting is really clear and rings like a bell. The stings I think are Harley Bentons own. Thoman sell them for about £3.50 for 4 string  and £6.40 for 5 string.

These are defiantly not DR or Elixer but imho a lot better than some strings I’ve used demanding a lot higher prices. Certainly usable for rehearsals and general noodling but    also very acceptable for a gigs if you have very greasy hands and need to change strings a lot or budget is limited.