3 Way Switch - Single, Series, Parallel - Wiring Help Please

[bagsieblue]

Looking for some help on replacing a 3 Way Switch as - Single, Series, Parallel.

I'm replacing a dodgy switch on a Warwick Doublebuck.

Drawing is here:

I've had to replace the 2 x PCB mounted switches (shown below as the switch module) with 2 x  individual switches, but have wired following the drawing below.

All works OK and is sounding great  - apart from I only appear to have 2 settings per switch/pickup rather than 3.

Position 1 single coil is fine.

Position 2 is a humbucker mode variation

Position 3 is humbucker mode variation

I hear no difference between position 2 and 3.  This is the same on both pickups so I'm assuming I've got something wrong somewhere.   Looking for input on what I need to do to get to the differing series and parallel settings.

Looking at the drawing - do I need a jumper wire between the top right and middle left positions?.

I assumed the switch covered that? or do I need to wire in a wire?

I've tried placing a wire between those two positions but that doesnt seem to change the sound either?

Edited March 29, 2021 by bagsieblue

[bagsieblue]

Diagram here   - admittedly this is the Rockbass.

It's curious on this that the picked wires are coloured differently?

Even on the full wiring diagram different colour wires from the neck and bridge pickup go to different positions on the switch!!

[Mottlefeeder]

2 hours ago, bagsieblue said:

Looking for some help on replacing a 3 Way Switch as - Single, Series, Parallel.

I'm replacing a dodgy switch on a Warwick Doublebuck.

Drawing is here:

I've had to replace the 2 x PCB mounted switches (shown below as the switch module) with 2 x  individual switches, but have wired following the drawing below.

All works OK and is sounding great  - apart from I only appear to have 2 settings per switch/pickup rather than 3.

Position 1 single coil is fine.

Position 2 is a humbucker mode variation

Position 3 is humbucker mode variation

I hear no difference between position 2 and 3.  This is the same on both pickups so I'm assuming I've got something wrong somewhere.   Looking for input on what I need to do to get to the differing series and parallel settings.

Looking at the drawing - do I need a jumper wire between the top right and middle left positions?.

I assumed the switch covered that? or do I need to wire in a wire?

I've tried placing a wire between those two positions but that doesnt seem to change the sound either?

1 hour ago, bagsieblue said:

Diagram here   - admittedly this is the Rockbass.

It's curious on this that the picked wires are coloured differently?

Even on the full wiring diagram different colour wires from the neck and bridge pickup go to different positions on the switch!!

I think that would make sense if the single coils need to be phase reversed to give you a scooped mids sound.

David

[Mottlefeeder]

1 hour ago, bagsieblue said:

Diagram here   - admittedly this is the Rockbass.

It's curious on this that the picked wires are coloured differently?

Even on the full wiring diagram different colour wires from the neck and bridge pickup go to different positions on the switch!!

The switches are not symetrical in their operation -

Toggle position vs contact position:
P1 • 2-3, 5-6: ON
P2 • 2-1, 5-6: ON
P3 • 2-1, 5-4: ON 

If you have the switch wired upside down, then it will not switch the way the original did.

That might be worth checking.

David

[bagsieblue]

50 minutes ago, Mottlefeeder said:

The switches are not symetrical in their operation -

Toggle position vs contact position:
P1 • 2-3, 5-6: ON
P2 • 2-1, 5-6: ON
P3 • 2-1, 5-4: ON 

If you have the switch wired upside down, then it will not switch the way the original did.

That might be worth checking.

David

Thanks for that - I'm sure the switches arent wired upside down.

To be sure - I have the notch in the thread on the bottom or the underside, facing downwards  - is that right?

Edited March 29, 2021 by bagsieblue

[bagsieblue]

Here is the neck pickup switch.

The unthreaded notch I have on the underside.

Wired up down the right hand side of the switch as:

Green

Black

Red

[bagsieblue]

.....and this is a photo of the board with the switches that I removed.

Same orientation it looks to me - I'm puzzled....

[Hellzero]

What type of 3 positions switch did you use ?

On-Off-On or On-On-On ?

 

[bagsieblue]

7 minutes ago, Hellzero said:

What type of 3 positions switch did you use ?

On-Off-On or On-On-On ?

 

On On On

[Mottlefeeder]

38 minutes ago, bagsieblue said:

.....and this is a photo of the board with the switches that I removed.

Same orientation it looks to me - I'm puzzled....

I can't tell from the photo whether it is notch up or notch down, but I also can't confirm that any two switch manufacturers do it the same way, so the only way to check it would be with a multimeter, or a battery, bulb and length of wire. 

You need to check whether 'switch in central position' connects the centre and upper contacts or centre and lower contacts in the original switches and then check that you have done the same.

David

 

[Hellzero]

Ok, it's the correct switch.

Don't worry about the notch on the switch as you can turn it to the desired position afterwards.

There are 6 pins on your switch when you look at it from the rear.

Let's number them beginning on the top left and going to the bottom right, so you have 1 on the top left, 2 on the top right, 3 on the middle left, 4 on the middle right, 5 on the bottom left and 6 on the bottom right. 

1. Make a strap between 2 and 3 on both switches.

2. Starting with the neck pickup.

3. White on 2.

4. Red on 4.

5. Black on 6 = Output.

6. Green on Ground.

7. Ground on 5 too.

8. Now the bridge pickup.

9. Green on 2.

10. Black on 4.

11. Red on 6 = Output.

12. White on Ground.

13. Ground on 5 too.

This now should work.

[Hellzero]

The wiring is different on the neck and bridge pickup to allow the 2 single coil positions to act act as a humbucker when blended, so no noise (less in fact) and use of the outer coil of each pickup.

[bagsieblue]

18 minutes ago, Hellzero said:

Ok, it's the correct switch.

Don't worry about the notch on the switch as you can turn it to the desired position afterwards.

There are 6 pins on your switch when you look at it from the rear.

Let's number them beginning on the top left and going to the bottom right, so you have 1 on the top left, 2 on the top right, 3 on the middle left, 4 on the middle right, 5 on the bottom left and 6 on the bottom right. 

1. Make a strap between 2 and 3 on both switches.

2. Starting with the neck pickup.

3. White on 2.

4. Red on 4.

5. Black on 6 = Output.

6. Green on Ground.

7. Ground on 5 too.

8. Now the bridge pickup.

9. Green on 2.

10. Black on 4.

11. Red on 6 = Output.

12. White on Ground.

13. Ground on 5 too.

This now should work.

Thanks  - that's the set up that I have, apart from a jumper wire between 2 and 3.  I've held a wire in place and changed the switch and there is no difference with the jumper wire in place.

Maybe the switch is upside down......

[Hellzero]

If your switch is a DPDT On-On-On, there is no up or down position as it's internally wired the same way, so except for the notch, there's no upside down position.

Did you ground the pin 5 and the green (or white) wire ?

[bagsieblue]

13 minutes ago, Hellzero said:

If your switch is a DPDT On-On-On, there is no up or down position as it's internally wired the same way, so except for the notch, there's no upside down position.

Did you ground the pin 5 and the green (or white) wire ?

Thanks for the input - yes, did do.

All looks fine, sounds fine too - I'm just not hearing any difference between switch positions 2 and 3 (centre and facing down)

[Mottlefeeder]

21 minutes ago, Hellzero said:

If your switch is a DPDT On-On-On, there is no up or down position as it's internally wired the same way, so except for the notch, there's no upside down position...

I disagree. The supplier's connection table in my second post above shows that when the switch is in the central position, both poles connect to the same end, but with the switch not central, the two poles switch to opposite ends. If you turn the switch through 180 degrees your centre position will connect to a different set of contacts, so orientation is important.

David

[Hellzero]

Remember that you have to solder that jumper between pin 2 and 3 otherwise it can explain your problem as there will be not grounding of one of the two coils creating the "single coil" mode.

[Hellzero]

2 minutes ago, Mottlefeeder said:

I disagree. The supplier's connection table in my second post above shows that when the switch is in the central position, both poles connect to the same end, but with the switch not central, the two poles switch to opposite ends. If you turn the switch through 180 degrees your centre position will connect to a different set of contacts, so orientation is important.

David

Tell me where is the difference upside down, please ?

[Hellzero]

This is upside down and I still don't see any difference...

[Hellzero]

That said, if you're wealthy you can buy the original assembly part by Warwick and don't forget to check the shipping fee which is as delirious...

https://shop.warwick.de/en/parts-for-instruments/electronics-parts/switches/20274/mec-mini-toggle-switches-assembly-for-coil-splitting-on-humbucking-pickups

[Mottlefeeder]

34 minutes ago, Hellzero said:

Tell me where is the difference upside down, please ?

You are right - there isn't a difference. The diagram I have shows the contact numbering going down on one pole and up on the other, like an integrated circuit. That numbering does give you a difference,  but it looks like it is wrong. One lives and learns.

David

[Hellzero]

@bagsieblue Does it work now ? That said the difference between the single coil and parallel mode can sometimes be very hard to hear, but come close to a screen or a transformer and you'll instantly know which one is engaged. 😉

[bagsieblue]

12 minutes ago, Hellzero said:

@bagsieblue Does it work now ? That said the difference between the single coil and parallel mode can sometimes be very hard to hear, but come close to a screen or a transformer and you'll instantly know which one is engaged. 😉

Thanks for checking back - I'll try again when I have more time.

I havent put a link in between, I will do this but I've held a wire in place and flicked the switch and nothing appears to change with that.

I'll try going close to a screen too and see if that helps identify.

Here is the bass.....

Edited March 30, 2021 by bagsieblue

[Hellzero]

You have to solder that jumper, otherwise it won't work the way it is supposed to do.

This link is made directly on the circuit board you removed. 😉

[Andyjr1515]

On 30/03/2021 at 11:25, bagsieblue said:

I will do this but I've held a wire in place and flicked the switch and nothing appears to change with that

 

On 30/03/2021 at 11:53, Hellzero said:

You have to solder that jumper, otherwise it won't work the way it is supposed to do.

@Hellzero is absolutely right about this, @bagsieblue.  Holding a wire against a contact just doesn't cut the mustard with bass and guitar electrics.  I know, because I've tried that myself in the past 

It is also correct that the contacts 2-3 bridge is essential and that on the original circuit board this will be happening within the board.

It should be a 2 min job to solder the contact bridge, @bagsieblue .  If not already done, it's worth doing it because I'm pretty sure that, all else being correct to @Hellzero 's description, it should work.

The series /parallel switch, by the way, often doesn't produce a huge amount of a tonal difference, but you should hear a volume difference through an amp or see it through a DAW wave-form.

In terms of split coil, tapping the poles lightly with a steel screwdriver or similar when the bass is plugged in should tell you which rows of poles are connected and which are shorted out. 

Edited April 6, 2021 by Andyjr1515