Earliest Ever Footage of Slap Bass

[Munurmunuh]

This needs posting again

The story he tells would have been 1961

Edited April 1, 2021 by Ricky Rioli

[ped]

Tbh Larry is entertaining and a great performer/story teller but like Bernard Purdie I suspect most of the stories are complete bullshit (but still fun)

[Munurmunuh]

3 minutes ago, ped said:

complete cow poop

is more than what this thread deserves.

Hey, how come the forum software substitutes a euphemism for bs when I quote yr post but not on yr post?! 

Edited April 1, 2021 by Ricky Rioli

[BoomTing]

Monk Montgomery 1953  ---- NEXT

 

 

[bartelby]

23 minutes ago, Ricky Rioli said:

is more than what this thread deserves.

Hey, how come the forum software substitutes a euphemism for bs when I quote yr post but not on yr post?! 

Bloody Admin privileges!!

 

Also, why are people still taking the bait on this thread?

[MartinB]

So the OP doesn't believe Larry Graham invented slap bass, and wants to find the true originator. I can only assume this is because they've invented a time machine, and are planning to go back and prevent slap from ever existing. I fully support them in their mission to create a future devoid of Level 42 👍

[Bean9seventy]

13 hours ago, SpondonBassed said:

Forgive me for pointing this out but you are not on a web log here.  This is a forum.  Also, you are not the first poster to open up this subject.  There will be discussion whether you like it or not.

The bottom line is that slap is a technique used by musicians, NOT a style of music in itself.  Having said that, it seems that there are quite a few that think that way.

I admire your tenacity on the subject.  I have a feeling that you have an axe to grind however.  I don't know where that comes from and really, I don't need to.  I wish you all the best on your quest, whatever it is.

interesting point ,, you make a movie ,, say it yours ,, then lose the rights ,,

could that in some way lean towards the point where larry did all the ground work of slap ??,, & waited 30 years before he could sit down & explain what he was doing ?

why folks thought i was against larry graham ,, when larry is the closest thing to hendrix ,, hendrix is the missing link ,, cheers

 

[Bean9seventy]

12 hours ago, MartinB said:

So the OP doesn't believe Larry Graham invented slap bass, and wants to find the true originator. I can only assume this is because they've invented a time machine, and are planning to go back and prevent slap from ever existing. I fully support them in their mission to create a future devoid of Level 42 👍

No we say the opposite ,,, Breaking News ,, anything jaggar could do Jimi could do better ,, & larry is the closet thing to jimi ,, hendrix is the missing link ,,

1968 was a big year ,, so these methods larry was using % ,, slap was the sound of the future ,, came true 12 years later with level 42 ,,

jimi was the main gig at woodstock ,, they all new larry graham, all knew larry was slapping ,,

it took 10 years before slap became a household theme ,,yes larry invented it ,, but took until about 1980 before folks be like ? we need to know this ,, sit larry down & show us

so ? it was the 1978 Disco era of Music & bass  that turned people "around the world" to slap 

some many great bass players later over those years after larry was at the top in 1970

here is a great example ,, Robert Popswell check it out

 

[Bean9seventy]

13 hours ago, BoomTing said:

Monk Montgomery 1953  ---- NEXT

 

 

LOL we often refer to that as "wes" montgomerys brother ,, you get points for this even tho its a photo ,, reason why is because wes montgomeys brother ,, was into sharp & flat notes ,, could only got the method from miles ,, thanks

[Bean9seventy]

13 hours ago, ped said:

Tbh Larry is entertaining and a great performer/story teller but like Bernard Purdie I suspect most of the stories are complete cow poop (but still fun)

well no? imagine the 1st guy who invented say a skate board ?.. or facebook ,, or Slap & it took say 10 years before folks say ,, after slap goes world wide from some typical euro type disco pop song in 1978 ,, folks say, who really invented it ? lets find him (larry graham ) & do a video ,,

that is what happened ,, by 1980ish teachers were teaching slap ,,with back up videos of LG many others

now, larry gets total respect & credit ,, the story of larry in 1970 ,, to world wide disco in 1978 .. those twilight years of larry to ron cater ,, to paul jackson ,, jazz ,

bootsy funk ,, & louis johnson who were the "new guys" in the frame , funk

Soul music,,??  motown had this pre disco tune ,, new york disco

 

[Bean9seventy]

14 hours ago, Ricky Rioli said:

This needs posting again

The story he tells would have been 1961

the electric lady ,, nice post

[Bean9seventy]

14 hours ago, ped said:

I’m local 

you know what mate >> ??  lol its a good point ,, when slap exploded round the world , 1978 - 1980 it was for some, like spam in monty python ,, others it turned into an ultimate critical speed battle on bass ,, 

more modest ,, its like be bop v pop music ,, slap did have a golden era , otherwise it would have disappeared faster than unlicensed 1632 hot dogs ,, lets dig one out , 

new york ,, big city ,, disco ,, soul ,, for 3 short years took over the world ,, 1977 - 1980

 

[drTStingray]

The first time I heard or saw slap bass being played knowingly was Car Wash by Rose Royce (bass player Lequeint "Duke" Jobe). In fact the whole first album of Rose Royce is littered with it. The fact the song features slapped bass only breakdowns at the end of each chorus - and appeared on a popular feature film of the era, and a UK top 10 single leads me to suspect this was the biggest and earliest exposure of slap bass to the general public. 

Though Larry did it with Sly, and I saw Woodstock multiple times when the film first released, on those singles of the late 60s the slap bass is not really that audible - slap and pop is on Thankyouforletting etc etc and audible - but I hadn't heard that until about 20 yrs ago when it was referred to in a Bass Player article and I looked it up. The concept of properly audible bass, especially live, didn't emerge as a more general thing except in occassional situations (Andy Fraser for instance) until the early 70s (Acoustic and other solid state amps helped a lot). 

Rose Royce had been around for a good couple of years under separate guises prior to Car Wash and the slap bass had no doubt been a feature of Duke's playing previously given the amount and standard of it on that first RR album. In fact Put Your Money Where Your Mouth Is features a slap/pop breakdown (again after every chorus) which is a direct lift of a Larry Graham fill (of which there are a cornucopia) from Graham Central Station's song Release Yourself. (I later found out LG was using double thumbing on that track - hence I could never get the sound right ) - it must be one of the most OTT bass parts I've ever heard - along with Hair from the same era - as with Funkadelic a herbal based studio fug can be imagined!!!! 

Except for Larry, I reckon it must have appeared on soul/funk tracks since at least 1975 as I was actually using it by then (although I was playing Jazz Rock and prog). Of course, Stanley Clarke used it quite a lot both with Return to Forever and with his own band - and the influence that turned him on to electric bass, Colin Hodgkinson also used it. 

For people like me who had heard it but not seen it, we didn't know they used their thumb and I for one developed a technique rather like Stan Seargent using a combination of tapped and heavily pulled strings to achieve the sound.

So @Bean9seventy I think it was probably popular from earlier in the 70s than you're thinking - maybe 74-75 (I think I copied some of Stanley Clarke (with Return to Forever) and Colin Hodgkinson (with Back Door) phrases). I also copied every LG fill off Release Yourself and used them all in my own playing. 

The world would be a far worse and bass playing would be a much less enjoyable and exciting place without it 😏 

Edited April 2, 2021 by drTStingray

[Doddy]

10 hours ago, Bean9seventy said:

LOL we often refer to that as "wes" montgomerys brother ,, you get points for this even tho its a photo ,, reason why is because wes montgomeys brother ,, was into sharp & flat notes ,, could only got the method from miles ,, thanks

I'm sorry, but I really don't understand this comment.

What do you mean he "was into sharp & flat notes"? Did everyone else just play diatonic to the key of C?                   "Could only got the method from Miles"? Meaning what? 

Out of intetest Monk (who had a good career away from his brother) didn't slap the bass. He plucked with his thumb, which was Fenders original idea of how to play the bass, hence the finger bar under the strings.

[prowla]

This is the first slap bass that got my attention.

4:20

[Paul S]

42 minutes ago, Doddy said:

I'm sorry, but I really don't understand this comment. The entire thread.

 

That's my view.   

[Doddy]

10 hours ago, Bean9seventy said:

after slap goes world wide from some typical euro type disco pop song in 1978 ,, folks say, who really invented it ? lets find him (larry graham ) & do a video ,,

 

Slap had clearly gone worldwide well before the late 70s disco era, because the players who played the style on those tracks were already on to it. Although, admittedly, that era may have helped to bring it to the listening public. The music world was on to it and there were players who had already started to take it further.

That video probably wasn't about "let's find who invented slap". At that time, there were no instructional videos on any style of bass playing, so they got a bunch of big name players (Graham, Neil Stubenhaus, Verdine White, Chuck Rainey, Nathan East, and Abe Laboriel) to talk about their styles, and released 3 videos. Sure, Larry Graham's section features the slap technique, but so does Chuck Rainey's.

[drTStingray]

It certainly appeared with the Crusaders (Pops Popwell) before that late 70s era - they were very much jazz funk.

Thinking back, and the mention of famous players and instructional videos, I saw the Brothers Johnson when they were part of Billy Preston's backing band in the early 70s - quite by accident - they supported the R Stones on a UK tour - I'm pretty sure LJ was using the style even then - Billy Preston and his band were superb in fact blew the decidedly average main act completely off - the only saving grace was the Stones' tight rythmn section and the presence of the wonderful Mick Taylor on guitar. The rest was pure s**te!!! 

Edited April 2, 2021 by drTStingray

[Doddy]

12 minutes ago, drTStingray said:

Thinking back, and the mention of famous players and instructional videos, I saw the Brothers Johnson when they were part of Billy Preston's backing band in the early 70s - quite by accident - they supported the R Stones on a UK tour - I'm pretty sure LJ was using the style even then - 

Louis Johnson always said that he developed his slap technique without knowing about Larry Graham. I believe that because even though they both slap, their techniques are very different.

[Bean9seventy]

20 hours ago, prowla said:

This is the first slap bass that got my attention.

4:20

nice hippy gig ,, there is a band from japan i found on youtube getting some slap down on the old grey whistle test from 1976 ,,, will try to surf & find that , cheers

[Bean9seventy]

19 hours ago, Doddy said:

Louis Johnson always said that he developed his slap technique without knowing about Larry Graham. I believe that because even though they both slap, their techniques are very different.

agreed tho , i refuse to be judge over other users communications ,, in my books LG is very similar to hendrix ,, LJ was a new guy ,,also knowing something of " the foxy electric lady "  both had a mid west to west coast feel ,, yet as mentioned slightly different methods ,,

the breaking news on this is,, i had no idea until youtube how hard LJ attacked the bass ,, wow,  Thunderthumbs as a nick names is an understatement ,,

breakin new pt2 ,, ??  LJ says he never knew slap from LG ,, ?? wow , great topic ,, certainly something to check out , thanks

[Bean9seventy]

19 hours ago, drTStingray said:

It certainly appeared with the Crusaders (Pops Popwell) before that late 70s era - they were very much jazz funk.

Thinking back, and the mention of famous players and instructional videos, I saw the Brothers Johnson when they were part of Billy Preston's backing band in the early 70s - quite by accident - they supported the R Stones on a UK tour - I'm pretty sure LJ was using the style even then - Billy Preston and his band were superb in fact blew the decidedly average main act completely off - the only saving grace was the Stones' tight rythmn section and the presence of the wonderful Mick Taylor on guitar. The rest was pure s**te!!! 

important point to the very ,, pops popwell really is the sound,, the band ,, the thing ,, that kicks starts Brit funk ,,, especially slap, as opposed to a say a UK soul band , the street value where Disco evolved so fast developing funk jazz ,, quickly renamed jazz funk is key ,,

the early hippy mentioned bands & uploaded had no traction ,,NB  this part of history often turns into arguments with bass players / folk who do not remember the 1970s ,

those same hippy bands rode the back of disco & came out on the other side in the 1980s & 90s as the red hot fusion bands everyone knows & fears today ,,

Thus the equation of slap ,,, you learn or see slap for the very 1st time ,, your amazed

And Then they tell you about larry graham ,,, never the other way round ,,, big points thank you

[Bean9seventy]

20 hours ago, Doddy said:

Slap had clearly gone worldwide well before the late 70s disco era, because the players who played the style on those tracks were already on to it. Although, admittedly, that era may have helped to bring it to the listening public. The music world was on to it and there were players who had already started to take it further.

That video probably wasn't about "let's find who invented slap". At that time, there were no instructional videos on any style of bass playing, so they got a bunch of big name players (Graham, Neil Stubenhaus, Verdine White, Chuck Rainey, Nathan East, and Abe Laboriel) to talk about their styles, and released 3 videos. Sure, Larry Graham's section features the slap technique, but so does Chuck Rainey's.

just because you find an LP on discogs don't mean millions of people when they were released was listening to them in say 1974 ,, yes there were hippys ,, yes there are what we now see as classic funk LPs from 1973 ,,,

in 1977 it went mega Viral ,,, you get it ,,, for about 3 years it was thee No1 thing ,, it is why we are all here ,, & then you learn about larry graham ,, never the other way round , thanks ,

[Bean9seventy]

20 hours ago, Paul S said:

That's my view.   

great to find someone who can not understand their own view ;D

[Bean9seventy]

On 02/04/2021 at 08:44, drTStingray said:

The first time I heard or saw slap bass being played knowingly was Car Wash by Rose Royce (bass player Lequeint "Duke" Jobe). In fact the whole first album of Rose Royce is littered with it. The fact the song features slapped bass only breakdowns at the end of each chorus - and appeared on a popular feature film of the era, and a UK top 10 single leads me to suspect this was the biggest and earliest exposure of slap bass to the general public. 

Though Larry did it with Sly, and I saw Woodstock multiple times when the film first released, on those singles of the late 60s the slap bass is not really that audible - slap and pop is on Thankyouforletting etc etc and audible - but I hadn't heard that until about 20 yrs ago when it was referred to in a Bass Player article and I looked it up. The concept of properly audible bass, especially live, didn't emerge as a more general thing except in occassional situations (Andy Fraser for instance) until the early 70s (Acoustic and other solid state amps helped a lot). 

Rose Royce had been around for a good couple of years under separate guises prior to Car Wash and the slap bass had no doubt been a feature of Duke's playing previously given the amount and standard of it on that first RR album. In fact Put Your Money Where Your Mouth Is features a slap/pop breakdown (again after every chorus) which is a direct lift of a Larry Graham fill (of which there are a cornucopia) from Graham Central Station's song Release Yourself. (I later found out LG was using double thumbing on that track - hence I could never get the sound right ) - it must be one of the most OTT bass parts I've ever heard - along with Hair from the same era - as with Funkadelic a herbal based studio fug can be imagined!!!! 

Except for Larry, I reckon it must have appeared on soul/funk tracks since at least 1975 as I was actually using it by then (although I was playing Jazz Rock and prog). Of course, Stanley Clarke used it quite a lot both with Return to Forever and with his own band - and the influence that turned him on to electric bass, Colin Hodgkinson also used it. 

For people like me who had heard it but not seen it, we didn't know they used their thumb and I for one developed a technique rather like Stan Seargent using a combination of tapped and heavily pulled strings to achieve the sound.

So @Bean9seventy I think it was probably popular from earlier in the 70s than you're thinking - maybe 74-75 (I think I copied some of Stanley Clarke (with Return to Forever) and Colin Hodgkinson (with Back Door) phrases). I also copied every LG fill off Release Yourself and used them all in my own playing. 

The world would be a far worse and bass playing would be a much less enjoyable and exciting place without it 😏 

The 1st time is saw slap ??

,, i was already "popping" strings on stuff like T-Connection "do what you wanna do" in 1977 ,, this i was taught by a guy i knew in an" un named reggae band " ,, so ? i met another brit funk band nearby who did "the entire" slap thing soon after ,, & i was sold ,

if i start naming names guys,, you would fall over ,, this is something i never do,, 

but i get nervous when i hear wired gent stories ,, i hear you man ,,  the hippy thing do not ring no bells,, dude  ,,, funk is a street sound ,,