The heretic thread approved by Roger Sadowsky or For those who pretend tone doesn't come from wood...

[Muzz]

6 minutes ago, tegs07 said:

yet Sadowsky is talking about the neck as the biggest impact on tone, specifically rosewood, maple and ebony. if he was talking about unicorn foreskin i would be right with you on rip off. as it is all 3 options are available on far cheaper instruments.

 

I thought we were done at marketing flimflam, really...I'm not saying it's a ripoff, I'm sure (and I've said this before, too) that his top-end instruments are very, very well made (and that in itself is a contributing factor to how well they sound/play), but unfounded marketing flimflam claims are just that. If he said 'there is a difference, I don't know why, and it's very small compared to how well we make the basses and the quality of the parts', that'd be a clearer. But if he's the only person in his market sector saying that, he'd lose sales...

[Guest]

Wood and construction has huge effect on sound.  Those who think it has little or no effect and it's only a vibrating string length, then please answer this.. if you have an acoustic and solid body guitar both with the same magnetic pickup mounted.. when plugged in why does one sound solid and the other acoustic when amplified?

[Muzz]

Construction is indeed a factor in sound. But the wood? Huge? Tell me how and why.

Edited July 18, 2024 by Muzz

[Guest]

Just now, Muzz said:

Construction is indeed a factor in sound. But the wood? Huge? Tell me how and why.

I just have.  read and answer my question?

[tegs07]

10 minutes ago, Muzz said:

I thought we were done at marketing flimflam, really...I'm not saying it's a ripoff, I'm sure (and I've said this before, too) that his top-end instruments are very, very well made (and that in itself is a contributing factor to how well they sound/play), but unfounded marketing flimflam claims are just that. If he said 'there is a difference, I don't know why, and it's very small compared to how well we make the basses and the quality of the parts', that'd be a clearer. But if he's the only person in his market sector saying that, he'd lose sales...

he says that there is a difference between rosewood, ebony and maple necks. not specifically when they are attached to expensive instruments made by him. just between the 3 different woods. they could be attached to a harley benton.

 

Edit: Personally I’ve never chosen an instrument for its “warmth” or “brightness” based upon the wood used for the neck. I’m far more interested in how comfortable it is to play.

Edited July 18, 2024 by tegs07

[Muzz]

3 minutes ago, Tobe said:

I just have.  read and answer my question?

I have - construction is a factor in sound, as is pickup placement, pickup, loom/EQ, strings, yadda yadda yadda. There are many, many factors which will change the response of the instrument, some cumulative, some greater, some smaller.

 

You've stated wood is a huge factor. Care to back that up with anything?

Edited July 18, 2024 by Muzz

[Woodinblack]

12 minutes ago, Dan Dare said:

Why not answer my questions, instead of deflecting?

 

Why don't you and Mr Balderdash get a room and sort it out together until you love each other again, rather than doing it here?

[Frank Blank]

Personally, although pleased as punch with the election result, I'd still take a short trip back in a time machine and this time round vote  @Muzz for PM.

 

[Muzz]

Wait till you read what my manifesto says about Class D and Heft...😀

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Muzz said:

I have - construction is a factor in sound, as is pickup placement, pickup, loom/EQ, strings, yadda yadda yadda

 

You've stated wood is a huge factor. Care to back that up with anything?

So your admitting construction is a factor.  Pickup placement, scale length, loom, strings yadda yadda..  Doesn't suggest whether it's acoustic or solid! all these are nothing to do with it. 

[Baloney Balderdash]

22 minutes ago, Dan Dare said:

 

Why not answer my questions, instead of deflecting?

 

Instead of telling me I "might learn a thing or two", why not show us you understand the subject? You are the one who brought it up, after all.

 

You can't have it both ways. You make unsupported assertions and then snivel about "provocation" when challenged.

You have neither proved worthy nor ready to get part in my vast knowledge.

 

But begging, instead of threatening, might be a good start on the way to have part in it and achieve absolute enlightenment!

 

 

On a more serious note I am not looking for a fight, so I politely decline your challenge.

 

Better?

 

 

Edited July 18, 2024 by Baloney Balderdash

[Muzz]

5 minutes ago, Tobe said:

So your admitting construction is a factor.  Pickup placement, scale length, loom, strings yadda yadda..  Doesn't suggest whether it's acoustic or solid! all these are nothing to do with it. 

Good grief, I'm not 'admitting'...there have been many discussions on this (wayyyyy too many, to be honest) and I've never said anything to the contrary. I already alluded (just above) to RS's very well-made (handmade) basses benefiting from this process, which is part of their construction.

 

Now then, what about this wood? You know, the title of the thread?

Edited July 18, 2024 by Muzz

[Dad3353]

This neck is made up of eleven pieces. I wonder what it sounds like..? 

 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Muzz said:

Good grief, I'm not 'admitting'...there have been many discussions on this (wayyyyy too many, to be honest) and I've never said anything to the contrary. I already alluded (just above) to RS's very well-made (handmade) basses benefiting from this process, which is part of their construction.

 

Now then, what about this wood? You know, the title of the thread?

 A magnetic pickup knows the difference between Acoustic and Solid, it also knows when it's a Martin or a Taylor, a Mahogany or Rosewood, it hears and amplify's the differences..  How? 

Edited July 18, 2024 by Tobe

[Frank Blank]

1 minute ago, Dad3353 said:

This neck is made up of eleven pieces. I wonder what it sounds like..? 

 

 

Eleventy better.

[Muzz]

It's technically plywood... 😐

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

This neck is made up of eleven pieces. I wonder what it sounds like..? 

 

It sounds exactly like those eleven pieces of wood stuck together. Simple. 

[BigRedX]

52 minutes ago, Muzz said:

Oh, and just to illustrate the flimflam, here's some descriptions from Alembic, pretty much the top of the shop of tonewood purveyors:

 

'shimmer'

'focused'

'mellow'

'beefy'

'plump'

'burly'

'both bright and dark'

'distinct'

 

The Milton Model of advertising, right there, and not a fact to be seen.

 

With the sheer number of individual pieces of wood that go to make up a typical Alembic bass, I suspect the type and amount of glue used will be just as important a factor.

[Muzz]

Beefy glue?

[rwillett]

Have we reached Godwins law yet?

[Dad3353]

2 minutes ago, Tobe said:

 A magnetic pickup knows the difference between Acoustic and Solid, it also knows when a Martin or a Taylor, a mahogany or Rosewood, it hears and amplify's the differences..  How? 

 

Not many are suggesting that there is no difference at all, just that, for solid-bodied instruments, the species of wood has such a tiny difference that it cannot be either heard, nor measured, in the 'real world'. Changing air pressure makes a difference, as does temperature. Does one have to get to quantic level to decide which sounds better..? 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Dad3353 said:

 

Not many are suggesting that there is no difference at all, just that, for solid-bodied instruments, the species of wood has such a tiny difference that it cannot be either heard, nor measured, in the 'real world'. Changing air pressure makes a difference, as does temperature. Does one have to get to quantic level to decide which sounds better..? 

I have two identical basses of the same year, they even weigh the same, one is physically louder than the other acoustically, plug it in and it's louder amplified too, even if i swap the pickups/electronics, the same one is still louder. 

[tegs07]

I was going to take a look at Alembic’s website to see what they are claiming, however it looks like it was designed by a 15 year as a school project in the early 90s.

[Muzz]

The poetic wood descriptions are rather O Level, too, although they describe the look and construction (eeeek, I mean how the wood is worked, like spalted maple) pretty well.

[Muzz]

5 minutes ago, Tobe said:

I have two identical basses of the same year, they even weigh the same, one is physically louder than the other acoustically, plug it in and it's louder amplified too, even if i swap the pickups/electronics, the same one is still louder. 

Non-empirical again, which is what I was describing earlier. Identical? Same wood from the same bit of the same tree? They are the same wood, right? Is the neck joint exactly the same in each?

Edited July 18, 2024 by Muzz