The heretic thread approved by Roger Sadowsky or For those who pretend tone doesn't come from wood...

[Muzz]

14 minutes ago, JoeEvans said:

...why on earth would you bother arguing about it?

Are you new here? 😀

[Downunderwonder]

5 hours ago, Tobe said:

So your admitting construction is a factor.  Pickup placement, scale length, loom, strings yadda yadda..  Doesn't suggest whether it's acoustic or solid! all these are nothing to do with it. 

The comparison is between various solid bodies with the same pickups and hardware.

 

And air with solid exo skeleton, no connection to the pickup. I couldn't pick any out for being significantly different in those videos. 

 

The materials are as disparate as concrete, lumber and air.

 

Has anyone shown a discernable difference between two hardwoods with the same hardware? Put up or....

[Dad3353]

Many pick-ups are mounted on springs, or a foam block, to provide for vertical adjustment (string height from pole pieces...). Does this practice have any effect on the transmission of these tone-wood tones to the pick-up..? 

[StickyDBRmf]

My Stick is made of laminated bamboo. 

 

Edited July 18, 2024 by StickyDBRmf

[Dad3353]

3 minutes ago, StickyDBRmf said:

My Stick is made of laminated bamboo. 

 

Oh no..! Now we have a debate on tone-grass starting..! 

 

...

 

 

[Woodinblack]

14 minutes ago, StickyDBRmf said:

My Stick is made of laminated bamboo. 

 

My NS-Stick was bamboo - I loved the feel of that, surprising it isn't more used. My stick is made of.. I assume aluminium?

[tegs07]

17 minutes ago, StickyDBRmf said:

My Stick is made of laminated bamboo. 

 

if it’s used to make an instrument it’s a tonewood and yes some luthiers use bamboo.

[Muzz]

48 minutes ago, StickyDBRmf said:

My Stick is made of laminated bamboo. 

 

And the geese fly South early this year. Do you have the dossier? 😁

[rmorris]

7 hours ago, Tobe said:

 

As for wax potting, that only eliminates any noise from potential loose windings/parts internal to the pickup, it has little to no effect on contact vibration. 

 

Not really making sense there. Any signal generated from contact vibration is due to changes in the relative position of magnets / cores / windings. If potting were 100% effective there would be no change in that geometry and thus no induced signal.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Doctor J said:

What are the basses? Are you referring to solid body basses with metal strings and a magnetic pickup?

Two P basses 👍

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Downunderwonder said:

The comparison is between various solid bodies with the same pickups and hardware.

 

And air with solid exo skeleton, no connection to the pickup. I couldn't pick any out for being significantly different in those videos. 

 

The materials are as disparate as concrete, lumber and air.

 

Has anyone shown a discernable difference between two hardwoods with the same hardware? Put up or....

Are you suggesting that a vibrating string length sounds acoustically  the same no matter whether it's connected to a wall or a door or whatever?   

 

My mention of acoustic instruments is only to make the point that a pickup can detect what its picking up other than just a vibrating string length!!

[Guest]

1 hour ago, rmorris said:

 

Not really making sense there. Any signal generated from contact vibration is due to changes in the relative position of magnets / cores / windings. If potting were 100% effective there would be no change in that geometry and thus no induced signal.

You need to read my full post in context that you quoted from, because you've not understood anything I've said. 

[tauzero]

6 hours ago, Tobe said:

Not sure you've read my post, it's a  post to demonstrate that there is contact vibration to a mounted pickup even with strings removed!

Your experiment will only tell me the difference the different strings have in relationship with the instrument, which is not what I'm saying in the post you've addressed.

 

I'm not sure that you've understood my post. I am saying that there will be a small amount of vibration transmission but that that will be negligible compared to the magnetic pickup output from metal strings. While a bass is being played, there is also a great big bag of dirty water acting as an aerial behind it, and that has a more significant effect than vibration.

[Downunderwonder]

1 hour ago, Tobe said:

Are you suggesting that a vibrating string length sounds acoustically  the same no matter whether it's connected to a wall or a door or whatever?   

 

My mention of acoustic instruments is only to make the point that a pickup can detect what its picking up other than just a vibrating string length!!

Again. A solid body instrument is not an acoustic instrument. Don't muddy the waters with your acoustic instruments.

 

Simply put up a comparison of exotic solid body instruments with al the same setup of hardware.

 

Or keep banging your acoustic drum.

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, Downunderwonder said:

Again. A solid body instrument is not an acoustic instrument. Don't muddy the waters with your acoustic instruments.

 

Simply put up a comparison of exotic solid body instruments with al the same setup of hardware.

 

Or keep banging your acoustic drum.

You fail to understand me, and  you haven't answered my question! 

 

So lets try this one.. Do all 34" vibrating E strings (for clarity lets keep it the same string brand) on every instrument sound exactly the same  unplugged to you? .. same timbre and everything? 

 

and for the record I've never mentioned exotic instruments, doe's anyone actually listen to anything that's been said around here or do people just presume stuff? 

Edited July 19, 2024 by Tobe

[Dad3353]

11 minutes ago, Tobe said:

...Do all 34" vibrating E strings (for clarity lets keep it the same string brand) on every instrument sound exactly the same  unplugged to you? .. same timbre and everything? ...

 

Yes, once the guitars, keys, bass Fx pedals and drums kick in. 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

 

Yes, once the guitars, keys, bass Fx pedals and drums kick in. 

You can hear a vibrating E string unplugged when everything else kicks in?  kudos 😎👍

[Downunderwonder]

7 minutes ago, Tobe said:

You can hear a vibrating E string unplugged when everything else kicks in?  kudos 😎👍

The pickup 'hears' it vibrating. What the pickup picks up from a solid body in the way of vibrations fed back to the strings isn't enough to be discernable in any test I have seen. Feel free to post one up. Or just keep.banging your acoustic drum.

[tegs07]

4 hours ago, Dad3353 said:

 

Yes, once the guitars, keys, bass Fx pedals and drums kick in. 

This is basically the end of discussion for any tonewood talk IMO. I have had a triggers broom bass for years that has had a cheap and nasty maple neck, which when I got some more cash was replaced with a nicer (Mighty Might I think) Rosewood neck and now has a Graphite neck. Each neck change to my ears made the bass sound a little different when played unplugged. As soon as it was plugged in and the amp cranked up then I really don’t think anyone would notice the difference. Add a guitar and forget it.

[rmorris]

6 hours ago, Tobe said:

You need to read my full post in context that you quoted from, because you've not understood anything I've said. 

 

No. I read your post. I quoted selectively to focus on the basic error in your thinking. Yes - you may get a signal from knocking an unstrung bass. That is due to some microphonic response. Most likely ime from the magnetic pickup. If potting maintained the relative geometries perfectly then there would be no such signal produced. That's how this magnetic induction stuff works. But, of course, nothing is 100% perfect. There are other possible sources of microphonics here - capacitor vibration and even wire movement. But this is all tiny signal stuff.

[Rich]

OK folks, the nasty jibes and passive-aggressive (or just aggressive) snideness stop right now or the thread gets locked. There is no place here for that sort of childish nonsense. If you're going to debate, do it like grown-ups.

[martthebass]

So...to get this thread back on topic.....is Alder good for metal?

[rmorris]

16 minutes ago, martthebass said:

So...to get this thread back on topic.....is Alder good for metal?Su

Surely you need one of those aluminium neck Kramers 🤔

[rmorris]

Amongst talk of different wood species - the issue of construction seems ignored here. eg one piece vs laminated Vs flat sawn Vs quarter sawn neck construction.

Bolt on / set neck / thru neck...

[Doctor J]

All techniques are still readily available. You can't smother it in a cloud of mojo and charge a premium.