The heretic thread approved by Roger Sadowsky or For those who pretend tone doesn't come from wood...

[Killed_by_Death]

1 hour ago, TrevorR said:

As to how two waves of the same or different frequencies interacting can increase or decrease the amplitude of either frequency (or indeed, interact to create other frequencies)... I’ll just leave this infographic here. 
 

 

Constructive Interference on the string/wire is based on the harmonics, which is going to be affected by the scale (or where it's being fretted) & the location of the pickup.

Resonance in a solid-body stringed-instrument actually removes vibration energy from the string, so unless there's an anti-Resonant frequency, I don't think there will be any Constructive Interference from the wood.

 

13 hours ago, Geek99 said:

@Killed_by_Death I don’t fit into your “most” criteria back there

So you're implying you have experience & haven't just read about it, but I would think your experience just confirms what Physics tells us, which is that the stiffness of the wood does affect the timbre.

Why don't you enlighten is with observations from your experience.

 

[Hellzero]

On 15/04/2021 at 19:28, Killed_by_Death said:

The tones in the timbre aren't coming from the wood, they're coming from the coils in the pickups.

 

40 minutes ago, Killed_by_Death said:

... the stiffness of the wood does affect the timbre.

Reversed engineering ?

[Killed_by_Death]

 

I'm not backpedaling, if that's what you're implying.

I will go back & add a disclaimer to my first comment.

The signal coming out of the pickups IS affected by the wood, but the 'tone' isn't 'coming from the wood'.

My assertion is that the wood is not Adding, but in fact Subtracting. 

If you mounted the strings to a Titanium structure, there'd be virtually no loss of frequencies. However, some might call that Sterile sounding.

If you mounted the strings to Styrofoam, there'd be loads of losses.

Woods are just the varieties in between, & some woods lessen mids (for instance).

 

Edited April 16, 2021 by Killed_by_Death

[Killed_by_Death]

4 hours ago, tauzero said:

Yes, the energy is conserved. However, it's changed to a different form as the energy from string vibration is absorbed by making the wood flex, which in turn heats the wood up, thus converting vibratory energy to heat.

I would agree with that, as it's fact, but someone else was using Conservation of Energy as if the tones subtracted were added elsewhere to come to zero sum.

At least, that his how I understood their point.

 

[TrevorR]

2 hours ago, Killed_by_Death said:

Resonance in a solid-body stringed-instrument actually removes vibration energy from the string, so unless there's an anti-Resonant frequency, I don't think there will be any Constructive Interference from the wood.

And when that body vibration (with certain frequencies attenuated) is transferred back into the opposite ends of the string? What will be the effect of that on the harmonic content of the vibrations in the string - where you agree you are likely to see both  co strict I’ve and destructive interference? It is, after all, the string that is being sensed by the pickups.

[hiram.k.hackenbacker]

"The pleasure is to play, makes no difference what the tonal variation of the wood is!"
Ian Fraser Kilmister (24 Dec 1945 – 28 Dec 2015)

[Killed_by_Death]

 

The instrument will vibrate the most at its Resonant frequency, which will take away the most vibration energy from the strings, the exact opposite of that (no loss) would be zero vibration from the instrument.

Seeking a peak that is the opposite of Resonance seems to me like it would be w/o fruition.

 

[Downunderwonder]

It's purely semantics. Affects the tone. Effects the tone. Same same different. We call the 2nd knob on a P bass the Tone knob so all is lost.

[hiram.k.hackenbacker]

8 minutes ago, Downunderwonder said:

We call the 2nd knob on a P bass the Tone knob so all is lost.

Your band has two bassists? Anthony Knob is bit of strange name as well.

[stewblack]

what the hell are you lot on about? 

[Hellzero]

Don't you think that it's about time to admit that an electric instrument is before all an acoustic instrument, otherwise it wouldn't be able to produce an acoustic sound, so in fact moving air through vibration of the wood, certainly not as loud as an instrument with a thin top and back acting like membranes to amplify this movement by moving more air ?

Once this is admitted, the same laws of physics are applicable, so tone coming from the wood as, in these acoustic instruments, there is no pickup (a typical Anglicism for microphone, that said).

Try reading Félix Savart mémoire about the trapezoidal violin as it's full of informations and ways to understand the principles of tone without any computer assistance.

Especially for @Killed_by_Death there's a science that uses both additive and subtractive synthesis to achieve similar results : photography.

So even if wood only uses subtractive synthesis, a skilled luthier with trained ears, knowledge and experience will know exactly what to do to achieve a specified result by tuning the wood(s)... Then comes the electronics that will colour the sound to certain tastes or, better, that will be the most transparent possible to retain the original tone of the (acoustic) instrument.

[Killed_by_Death]

 

Solid-Body Electric instruments are quite different from Acoustic, as there's no soundhole.

Resonance acts in a directly opposing manner.

Physics is the reason:

 

[Hellzero]

Reading glasses may certainly help...

[Killed_by_Death]

You're gonna pretend like I'm the one who is having trouble comprehending?

You've been off the mark since the outset, have a good weekend!

 

[Hellzero]

17 minutes ago, Killed_by_Death said:

 

Solid-Body Electric instruments are quite different from Acoustic, as there's no soundhole.

Resonance acts in a directly opposing manner.

Physics is the reason:

 

Never seen a piano ?

[Downunderwonder]

If one were to build an imaginary 'perfect' electric instrument, let's imagine it thusly:

Perfect suspension of the string end to end and tensioned all by supermagmets.

Perfect pickups that capture every waft of the unencumbered strings.

Then the wood and everything else would have no effect.

But we wouldn't like the tone.

Quid pro quo, the wood and everything else does things to the tone that we like.

Quid pro quo, they added to the tone, by taking stuff away.

Edited April 16, 2021 by Downunderwonder

[Killed_by_Death]

2 hours ago, Hellzero said:

Never seen a piano ?

You just keep digging, but w/o fruition.

You're clearly just grasping at straws now, or maybe you're already in bed.

Anyway, have that great weekend, & lighten up.

 

 

Edited April 16, 2021 by Killed_by_Death
removed hilarious but scathing joke

[Killed_by_Death]

On 15/04/2021 at 18:17, Hellzero said:

Almost all posters can't read : I wrote that the tone comes from the wood, not the species of wood, as the only fixed and identical parameters are everything but the wood. And I never spoke of tonewood.

2. Almost all posters have hearing damages

This is where you started going off the rails & we all should have just stopped responding.

You're insulting our ability to read & comprehend & then you did it to me directly later. 

Today I was opening doors for little old ladies, & helped the blind to see, but:

 

Edited April 16, 2021 by Killed_by_Death
spelling

[oldslapper]

[Marvin]

I thought the original video was very badly made and as a result did near nothing to convince either way. The basses all sounded very similar.

Any differences are so small that you have to you high quality headphones or monitors to notice them (if you can), which is telling in itself.

With such small possible differences I'm not sure what the obsession is, as when you play in a band context such subtle differences (if they exist) are all but lost. 

 

[Hellzero]

IBTL.

[oldslapper]

14 minutes ago, Hellzero said:

IBTL.

I think it’s all good.

Some can hear a difference, some can’t. 
For some it’s important, for others it’s not.

Not sure what arguments achieve on these topics. 
🙏

[Maude]

15 minutes ago, oldslapper said:

I think it’s all good.

Some can hear a difference, some can’t. 
For some it’s important, for others it’s not.

Not sure what arguments achieve on these topics. 
🙏

What sort of reasoned, common sense is this? It just won't do. 

😉 😄

[ezbass]

22 minutes ago, oldslapper said:

 

Not sure what arguments achieve on these topics.

Track one, side one of Yes’ Fragile.

Or, if you prefer...

Edited April 17, 2021 by ezbass

[Hellzero]

I can say I'm lucky they don't burn heretics these days...

But heretics are, well after their trial and burning, judge again and rehabilitated as they were right.

So burn me, but remember not to let me in.