Speakon Cables - what you using. ?

[nilebodgers]

3 minutes ago, AndyTravis said:

This is decent, had it about a year now.

This is pro Production company grade, in the real world it doesn’t get better.

[dmccombe7]

3 hours ago, beans-on-toast said:

Yes, always use Neutrik, not a knockoff. People are tempted to buy longer cables as the cost is not that much more. Stick with the length that you need. 

 

 

I went for 2 metres on this one as i found the 1 metre i already have is borderline with certain cab set ups.

Did think of 1.5m but like you said 2m wasn't much different.

Dave

[AndyTravis]

4 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

I went for 2 metres on this one as i found the 1 metre i already have is borderline with certain cab set ups.

Did think of 1.5m but like you said 2m wasn't much different.

Dave

I did 1m and it’s plenty for head/1 cab - feels 10 times more substantial than the stagg ones I had previously.

[dmccombe7]

Just checked the shorter cable i have and its actually 0.7m and not 1m. I bought it circa 2010 and have no idea why i asked for that specific length,

The 1m version would have been ok after all.

What i might do is half one of the cables, buy a couple of nuetriks and solder myself giving 2 x 1m ones plus a 2m as spares. 

Dave

Edited April 19, 2021 by dmccombe7

[Downunderwonder]

1 hour ago, dmccombe7 said:

solder

No solder! This is 2021 and things have much improved from 1981.

If you put solder on the wire ends it will 'flow' under pressure from the screws and give you a lousy connection.

No solder!!!!

[dmccombe7]

24 minutes ago, Downunderwonder said:

No solder! This is 2021 and things have much improved from 1981.

If you put solder on the wire ends it will 'flow' under pressure from the screws and give you a lousy connection.

No solder!!!!

The expert cable manufacturers recommend soldered connections rather than screwed ones for reliability and endurance.

Any cables i've bought have all been soldered.

Dave

[nilebodgers]

11 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

The expert cable manufacturers recommend soldered connections rather than screwed ones for reliability and endurance.

Any cables i've bought have all been soldered.

Dave

Not in power connectors (e.g. NL4). Crimp and compression joints are more reliable than soldered connections for these applications.

[dmccombe7]

19 minutes ago, nilebodgers said:

Not in power connectors (e.g. NL4). Crimp and compression joints are more reliable than soldered connections for these applications.

I'd disagree that any screwed terminals are better than permanent soldered connections. 

When you say crimp and compression do you mean fitting a crimp to cable end and then insert into screwed connection.

Nuetrik NL4 connection instructions dont show crimps being used but cable straight into a screwed connection. 

Anywhere you have a screwed cable connection can lead to screws loosening off under loads due to heat transfer.

Dave

[nilebodgers]

I meant either crimp or compression ( I.e. screw terminals with an intermediate load spreader for compression without damaging the strands).

The problem with soldered multi strand cable is that solder wicks back up the cable and can cause failure if there are mechanical stresses/flexing. This has long been known in electronic circles. (I also found it in a commentary on the IEE wiring regs: Soldered conductor ends on fine wire and very fine wire conductors are not permitted (Regulation 526.8.3) where relative movement can be expected between soldered and non-soldered parts of the conductor.)

 

[dmccombe7]

2 hours ago, nilebodgers said:

I meant either crimp or compression ( I.e. screw terminals with an intermediate load spreader for compression without damaging the strands).

The problem with soldered multi strand cable is that solder wicks back up the cable and can cause failure if there are mechanical stresses/flexing. This has long been known in electronic circles. (I also found it in a commentary on the IEE wiring regs: Soldered conductor ends on fine wire and very fine wire conductors are not permitted (Regulation 526.8.3) where relative movement can be expected between soldered and non-soldered parts of the conductor.)

 

Thanks for that. Have to say its news to me. The spreader plate makes sense when using screwed connections but i've not seen spreader plates in a speakon plug. 

Only thing i would highlight is that it's for cables where movement is expected. Most plugs have the cable sheath clamped in both soldered and non-soldered so its not relevant in the case of speaker cables.

I would also agree that when soldering fine cables to circuit boards the excessive heat could cause damage and more and more circuit boards now have plugs of some sort rather than wires soldered direct to board IME that is.

I know that excessive heat on instrument cables can damage the insulation or cause oxidising on certain cables but that's usually a finer cable than good quality speaker cable.

I'm now even more curious as to which is more reliable. If anyone has any info please share. I'm curious again.

So what about jack plugs. They are all soldered as far as i know yet they have finer cables than speaker cable.

So many questions now !!!!! Is the guidance or regulation for circuit boards only ?

Dave

 

Edited April 19, 2021 by dmccombe7

[Killed_by_Death]

 

1/4" plugs have a an inherent strain-relief (which works fine for instrument-wire):

SpeakON is a better connection, especially for speaker-wire.

 

[Dad3353]

I've been doing connectors of all sorts for musical equipment and PA's for well over half a century now. My 5-year Avionics training with BEA gave me experience and theory as to the best connector for the job (crimps in much aircraft stuff...), and real-life experience in workshops, at home and in the field has shown to me what is best, for me, for jack plugs, speakons, RCA, XLR and much more (as well as my model aircraft...). A good solder joint, mechanically restrained, will not fail. A tinned multi-strand cable is fine (again, if restrained, but all connectors should be restrained, anyway, so...). Bare multi-strand is fine, too, if the strands are not so fine as to be ground away by screws, so tinning would be better there. Otherwise, no problem with bare cable. A spreader in much better in a screw connector. Crimping is excellent, with the right tools (not just any old pliers...). It's all good, if the technician knows what he/she is doing. I can't remember ever having a failure, whatever the method, except for abuse. I'd not advise any soldering, though, without the right gear and experience, and good wire strippers do not come cheap. 

[agedhorse]

19 hours ago, dmccombe7 said:

The expert cable manufacturers recommend soldered connections rather than screwed ones for reliability and endurance.

Any cables i've bought have all been soldered.

Dave

Not for Neutruik SpeakOn plugs.

Under high current, the pressure of the termination (without tinned wired) is better than solder and will not loosen with use either.

[agedhorse]

16 hours ago, nilebodgers said:

I meant either crimp or compression ( I.e. screw terminals with an intermediate load spreader for compression without damaging the strands).

The problem with soldered multi strand cable is that solder wicks back up the cable and can cause failure if there are mechanical stresses/flexing. This has long been known in electronic circles. (I also found it in a commentary on the IEE wiring regs: Soldered conductor ends on fine wire and very fine wire conductors are not permitted (Regulation 526.8.3) where relative movement can be expected between soldered and non-soldered parts of the conductor.)

 

This is why soldered connections on plugs should always have a mechanical strain relief. Even mechanically attached plugs like SpeakOn have robust strain reliefs built into the connector.

[agedhorse]

11 hours ago, Dad3353 said:

I've been doing connectors of all sorts for musical equipment and PA's for well over half a century now. My 5-year Avionics training with BEA gave me experience and theory as to the best connector for the job (crimps in much aircraft stuff...), and real-life experience in workshops, at home and in the field has shown to me what is best, for me, for jack plugs, speakons, RCA, XLR and much more (as well as my model aircraft...). A good solder joint, mechanically restrained, will not fail. A tinned multi-strand cable is fine (again, if restrained, but all connectors should be restrained, anyway, so...). Bare multi-strand is fine, too, if the strands are not so fine as to be ground away by screws, so tinning would be better there. Otherwise, no problem with bare cable. A spreader in much better in a screw connector. Crimping is excellent, with the right tools (not just any old pliers...). It's all good, if the technician knows what he/she is doing. I can't remember ever having a failure, whatever the method, except for abuse. I'd not advise any soldering, though, without the right gear and experience, and good wire strippers do not come cheap. 

Tinning wires with binding screw pressure terminations are a problem because the solder will cold flow under pressure. It's not allowed in avionics here in the states. The regulatory approvals for most pressure screw connectors will specify un-tinned wire only.

There may be some exceptions for tin overbond wire in some applications, but only because pure tin does not cold flow as easily. 

[agedhorse]

As far as the sound differences in "premium priced cables" and solid commercial/pro/tour grade cables is generally indistinguishable to those participating in double-blind testing. I have seen these tests many times, and seen folks claim things that proved unconfirmable.

The exception to the rule is high impedance sources into high impedance loads (instrument cable), when the cable gets long there can be a significant difference between cables due to the capacitive reactance of the cable and how that reactance interacts with the reactance of a passive pickup. You can experience reduced high end, you can experience resonance effects, and you can experience additional noise. The longer the cable, the more noticeable.

This has been my experience (over and over again).

[Downunderwonder]

19 hours ago, dmccombe7 said:

The expert cable manufacturers recommend soldered connections rather than screwed ones for reliability and endurance.

Any cables i've bought have all been soldered.

Dave

Hopefully you now defer to the higher authority.

[Dad3353]

3 hours ago, agedhorse said:

Tinning wires with binding screw pressure terminations are a problem because the solder will cold flow under pressure. It's not allowed in avionics here in the states. The regulatory approvals for most pressure screw connectors will specify un-tinned wire only.

There may be some exceptions for tin overbond wire in some applications, but only because pure tin does not cold flow as easily. 

Quite true, for avionic use, but for things like audio jack plugs or speakon cables, it's not a problem, especially if there's a compression plate system. If the cable is correctly restrained, there'll be no force on the connection at any time. In my experience it's fine. I'd rather the ends were tinned than have loose brins of multi-strand on the loose. 

[dmccombe7]

5 hours ago, Downunderwonder said:

Hopefully you now defer to the higher authority.

Of course. @agedhorse is God. 

However i am still surprised but Hey ! every day a school day on Basschat and i shall admit defeat gracefully.😀

Dave

Edited April 20, 2021 by dmccombe7

[hiram.k.hackenbacker]

This has reminded me that I do need to get another Speakon cable as I only have one to share between two amps at the moment and would like a spare or two.

I have quite a bit in my basket at dv247.com already and need to make it up to £150 to get free shipping 😂, so will be buying from there. The only Speakon cables they sell are ‘Music Store’ (which I presume to be their own brand) as well as Cordial, Klotz and D’Addario. They do also sell the £60 Vovox one (listed in the microphone section for some reason) which I’m tempted to try just for a laugh, but yeah, expensive.

I’ve seen Cordial mentioned favourably here already. Any negatives for Klotz or D’Addario? I seem to remember @obbm used Klotz stuff when making interconnects. 

[dmccombe7]

22 minutes ago, hiram.k.hackenbacker said:

This has reminded me that I do need to get another Speakon cable as I only have one to share between two amps at the moment and would like a spare or two.

I have quite a bit in my basket at dv247.com already and need to make it up to £150 to get free shipping 😂, so will be buying from there. The only Speakon cables they sell are ‘Music Store’ (which I presume to be their own brand) as well as Cordial, Klotz and D’Addario. They do also sell the £60 Vovox one (listed in the microphone section for some reason) which I’m tempted to try just for a laugh, but yeah, expensive.

I’ve seen Cordial mentioned favourably here already. Any negatives for Klotz or D’Addario? I seem to remember @obbm used Klotz stuff when making interconnects. 

OBBM ones i have are Proel cable but he does use Klotz too

[obbm]

11 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

OBBM ones i have are Proel cable but he does use Klotz too

I only ever used Klotz LY240 4-sq.mm. Subwoofer cable.

[dmccombe7]

32 minutes ago, obbm said:

I only ever used Klotz LY240 4-sq.mm. Subwoofer cable.

I thought i had bought them from you but now i'm wondering where i got them unless it was from Bass Direct when i bought my Berg ae112 cabs back around 2010.

My apologies Dave.

Dave

[hiram.k.hackenbacker]

8 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

I thought i had bought them from you but now i'm wondering where i got them unless it was from Bass Direct when i bought my Berg ae112 cabs back around 2010.

My apologies Dave.

Dave

Dave, you’re such a Klotz.

Sorry, couldn’t resist 😂.

[BigRedX]

Having switched to an FRFR setup a couple of years ago, I no longer need speaker cables, but before that I had 4 (2 x Speakon to Speakon and 2 x Jack To Speakon) made up for me by OBBM back in 2010, and before that I had a set I made myself using 13A two conductor orange mains cable   terminating in XLRs, back in the late 80s. None of these have ever failed.