Naughty Warwick

[BadBassDude]

HI.  I'm up here in sunny Yorkshire with my bad donkey but naughty Warwick thumb NT5.  Naughty I hear you ask?  Shenaningans with the truss rod (lots of tension on careful adjustment but absolutely no movement to correct a forward bow). 

Can anyone recommend a Luthier / magician who can be trusted to fix the blighter?

 

Thanks in advance.

[A.G.E.N.T.E.]

Is the truss rod stuck or it moves without any noticeable changes on the neck? 

[warwickhunt]

What year is it?  Just be aware that early Warwicks have removable rods and it isn't unheard of them to be installed incorrectly.  Also, I've known some Wicks to have rods that work counter clockwise (ie the opposite to normal).  

[goingdownslow]

My '91 Thumb has the removable rod and the opposite to normal adjustment. 
I did have to remove it and put it back reversed so tensioning it put some relief in the neck.

Edited April 24, 2021 by goingdownslow

[BadBassDude]

Thanks guys.  It's a 2000 model.  I've tried the counter clockwise and clockwise adjustments, gradually (1/4 turn at a go) over time, to no avail.

If I remove the strings, neck returns to straight as an arrow.  Strings back on and the forward bow returns (obviously I suppose).  

 

[verb]

A year 2000 model should be the non removable righty tighty lefty loosey type truss rod. 

It will be a dual action rod, so as the neck goes straight when not under string tension, I am wondering if it is doing anything at all.

Without strings, is there a point when the adjuster spins without any resistance? There can be a point where the nut on the truss rod moves between pulling and pushing. It may be a stiff thread and you are at this point.

Its a fretboard off job to replace though.

[BadBassDude]

The tech nerds at Warwick have suggested a fret board off, open rod surgery approach.  I have admitted defeat and I am ready to send the useless wooden ornament to the bass hospital.  But i don't like my chances of getting it to Warwick and back again in a post Brexit world.  Looking for a competent doc nearer to home.  

Anyone?

 

[warwickhunt]

No disrespect to 'W' but they are bloody expensive for repairs!  

Where are you btw?  I know of a few good luthiers in the North/NE.

[Matt P]

paging @Andyjr1515 ! who seems to be the go-to guy for this kind of repair.

 

Matt

[Jakester]

48 minutes ago, warwickhunt said:

No disrespect to 'W' but they are bloody expensive for repairs!  

Yup, I had a quote for £900+ to repair (note 'repair', not 'replace') a problem with a neck. 

[verb]

I think someone on here sent their Warwick neck to Manton Custom Guitars for a truss rod replacement, but a can't find the thread. 

[paul_5]

3 hours ago, verb said:

I think someone on here sent their Warwick neck to Manton Custom Guitars for a truss rod replacement, but a can't find the thread. 

There’s a little plastic cover on the headstock; it’s under there. 😄

[Andyjr1515]

4 hours ago, Matt P said:

paging @Andyjr1515 ! who seems to be the go-to guy for this kind of repair.

 

Matt

While I have done a number of trussrod replacements, generally they are with basses where the conversation of 'But there is always a risk...it might end in a broken fretboard or visible joint marks on the re-glue and finish' has been had and acknowledged and it's worth the gamble.  A Thumb NT is a completely different kettle of fish!             But I am very flattered, @Matt P    Thanks

@Manton Customs as mentioned by @verb sounds a good option to me...so, calling @Manton Customs 

  

[Grangur]

I have a Warwick that needed the same treatment. On mine the neck was twisted and the rod was messed up. So I ordered a new TR and passed the job to a luthier in Stevenage.  It's that long ago I can't recall his name but @TheGreek knows him. 
So, when Mick gets here, he'll no doubt have rude things to say about Warwicks, but he does have his uses. 

The cost of having the work done, not including the rod which I ordered from Warwick, was £100. So I guess it might be £120 now.

[TheGreek]

Thanks @ Grangur...am I that predictable??

Luthier in Stevenage is Terry Chapman - a member here @nosbig (that's Gibson backwards). His details are in the Luthier thread or google TJC guitars. 

[martthebass]

If you’re in South Yorkshire (I’m in Rotherham) I usually take my patients to Jon Shuker in Hope Valley. Not the quickest if he’s busy but reasonable £ and you’ll get a good job.

[peteb]

I'm in West Yorkshire, but if I have anything than a minor job then I always take my basses down to Jon Shuker.  It's a bit of a drive but well worth it. 

[Andyjr1515]

13 hours ago, martthebass said:

If you’re in South Yorkshire (I’m in Rotherham) I usually take my patients to Jon Shuker in Hope Valley. Not the quickest if he’s busy but reasonable £ and you’ll get a good job.

Yes - Jon is excellent.

Edited April 27, 2021 by Andyjr1515

[BadBassDude]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. 

Warwick were indicating (not quoting yet) a large bill.  I'll look up Jon Shuker; thanks.  

I'll be back (!) to let let you know how I got on.

Thanks again all.

 

[martthebass]

2 hours ago, BadBassDude said:

Thanks for the feedback everyone. 

Warwick were indicating (not quoting yet) a large bill.  I'll look up Jon Shuker; thanks.  

I'll be back (!) to let let you know how I got on.

Thanks again all.

 

No worries BBD.  Just warning you though, if you get the tour of Jon's basses and wood pile you could end up with a bigger bill than you expected

[funkyjimbob]

Another Warwick owner here with truss rod problems. I was actually going to put this up for sale but in a pre sale setup the tech noticed a lot of bow which seems to be an issue which he's not got time to sort. If anyone could point me in the direction of anyone who may be able to see if there's an issue that would be great. 

 

Edited May 4, 2021 by funkyjimbob

[bassment73]

I had 3 Warwicks that were in the date range 2000 to 2008 which had truss rod issues. Interestingly these are generally the Warwicks with the chunky profile ovangkol necks. To me it always felt like the truss rod wasn't strong enough for the 'amount' of wood in these necks and they were very susceptible to changes in weather/humidity etc. In fact with one of them (a Corvette standard ash) the truss rod actually snapped when I tried to turn it after having  sprayed rust remover into the rod hole (thinking it might have been seized). I also had been in touch with HPW at Warwick and was quoted somewhere in the region of £800 for a neck repair. In the end I resorted to stripping down the bass and selling all the parts individually (minus the neck) and think I made around £300 in total, which I thought wasn't the end of the world, given it was just a standard Corvette.

Does sound like a trip to Jon Shuker might be worth it?

As a rule of thumb (no pun intended) I tend to now steer clear of buying used Warwick from say 2000 to 2013 to avoid the chunky profile necks and possible truss issues.

[bagsieblue]

1 minute ago, bassment73 said:

I had 3 Warwicks that were in the date range 2000 to 2008 which had truss rod issues. Interestingly these are generally the Warwicks with the chunky profile ovangkol necks. To me it always felt like the truss rod wasn't strong enough for the 'amount' of wood in these necks and they were very susceptible to changes in weather/humidity etc. In fact with one of them (a Corvette standard ash) the truss rod actually snapped when I tried to turn it after having  sprayed rust remover into the rod hole (thinking it might have been seized). I also had been in touch with HPW at Warwick and was quoted somewhere in the region of £800 for a neck repair. In the end I resorted to stripping down the bass and selling all the parts individually (minus the neck) and think I made around £300 in total, which I thought wasn't the end of the world, given it was just a standard Corvette.

Does sound like a trip to Jon Shuker might be worth it?

As a rule of thumb (no pun intended) I tend to now steer clear of buying used Warwick from say 2000 to 2013 to avoid the chunky profile necks and possible truss issues.

Yes - I believe that the truss rods are too weak for the 'strength' of the neck.  Photo here of HPW demonstrating the neck strength.

I'm sure a number of people try to adjust while these is still tension on the neck too which doesn't help.   If adjusting yourself I find it sensible to remove the strings and leave the neck to settle straight before attempting any truss rod tweaks.

[Guest]

“Can anyone hear a cracking sound?” 😀

[bagsieblue]

On 25/04/2021 at 21:07, BadBassDude said:

Thanks guys.  It's a 2000 model.  I've tried the counter clockwise and clockwise adjustments, gradually (1/4 turn at a go) over time, to no avail.

If I remove the strings, neck returns to straight as an arrow.  Strings back on and the forward bow returns (obviously I suppose).  

 

Any progress BigBassDude?

Your 2000 Warwick will have the slim/weak/black truss rod.

Sadly, This is a known problem with Warwick basses  - my view is there is a disproportionately higher number of this type of failures with Warwick than against other brands.  

Of course, the removable / non removable rods ties in with the non volute / volute necks.  Volute was added to the neck to fix the common historic neck break problem and to give more strength at the nut.

I've had 5 Warwicks over the years with truss problems.  

4 of which I knew about before actually buying the bass.  I know of some others too that I've swerved buying for various reasons.  There was a Ltd Ed Blonde Thumb doing the rounds with a truss rod issue a few years ago - last I saw it was eventually parted out.  Plenty of stories online of Warwicks with duff truss rods too.

The reasons these can become a problem are:

Weak Truss Rod- Bad Design.

The rod is a softer metal than the nut - so overtightening strips the rod not the nut - Bad Design.

User Error - because of the two points above its easy to stuff things up when attempting a tweak, added to some people who must try with sheer brute force, using any old allen key / screwdriver / whatever to try and make adjustments.

That said - its not impossible to fix - amateur job on one of mine here - decided on an amateur job purely on cost, say £400 value on a Corvette so not much point in sinking in cracking on for a similar amount again for a pro job.

 Though a NT thumb would worth more.

Edited May 7, 2021 by bagsieblue