Perception of quality

[OliverBlackman]

Fretwork and setup play a massive part in playability and the feel between cheap and expensive. Mostly because the cheaper manufacturing is all machine produced on an assembly line with less QC. After playability everything is nuanced - electronics, woods, aesthetics, craftsmanship, exclusivity ect. I have a mix of both, although the MIM Fender has had work at the Gallery to get it up to scratch.

[Jus Lukin]

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Edited March 14, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[peteb]

37 minutes ago, hiram.k.hackenbacker said:

Yes, and that’s absolutely fine. I would never argue that aesthetics shouldn’t be a factor in deciding what you want to play.

A couple of their models don’t do it for me, but I love everything about the Monarch design.

It's not just the look, it's also the image. Most people think of Foderas being played by either esoteric fusion guys, or by lawyers or other high earning professionals who never play a gig. They don't really have an image of being rock and roll or funky! 

[Ed_S]

1 hour ago, Woodinblack said:

Never knew why Ibanez are so hung up on that colour, so many people denied the sr505 due to it!

For me, honestly it is the look. I know they must be great as people pay that much for them, and I have never and doubt I will ever had a chance to try one, but they are so aesthetically painful!

I know, it's shallow 😀

Absolutely - I have an SR506e that is a brilliant instrument and mercifully they seem to have dipped only lightly since it still has some colour variation in the right light, as well as my wonderfully cheap little GSR200b (not sure whether b means 'brown') that I was referring to before, which got hit with a slightly more full-on smothering!

I've never tried a Fodera, but the ones I've seen pictures of look chunky in a TRB kind of way. I personally have no problem with that, though I question whether any of them would look particularly right on stage with my band. My real problem with the concept of a Fodera is leaving it in a disabled bog that's being used as an impromptu gear store in a rock bar, while I nip round the corner to grab a burger. Granted, most people are fundamentally honest and wouldn't dream of pinching or damaging it, and even those who might stray towards that behaviour would likely have no idea what it specifically was worth... but I would, and it'd actually reduce my enjoyment of gigging.

Edited April 25, 2021 by Ed_S

[milford59]

This type of discussion never goes anywhere because we are dealing with incomplete information whenever money forms part of the discussion. If everybody’s opinion was in context, then what they say would mean a lot more.

By “context” , I mean.... how much do you earn.....how much do you have saved in the bank.....how much disposable income do you have.....does your wife/partner have any view on your spending habits.....do you expect any instrument/equipment that you buy to have any re-sale value  etc. etc. 

Then... if someone says he won’t spend more than £100 on a bass guitar (and the context is that he is out of work, has no money in the bank and his wife/partner goes mad if he spends any money)  we will understand his opinion.

Of course, this is never going to happen, so these discussions (whilst interesting) will never give the complete picture.

 

 

[Woodinblack]

24 minutes ago, peteb said:

It's not just the look, it's also the image. Most people think of Foderas being played by either esoteric fusion guys, or by lawyers or other high earning professionals who never play a gig. 

For me I am not worried about that, I don''t care who else plays something, it doesn't affect me, it is just the look of the bass. I don't mind playing a bass even though jaco did, any more than I mind playing a mustang because Status Quo did.

[Woodinblack]

26 minutes ago, Ed_S said:

My real problem with the concept of a Fodera is leaving it in a disabled bog that's being used as an impromptu gear store in a rock bar, while I nip round the corner to grab a burger. 

I would never do that. But that would also go for a Squier!

[chris_b]

13 hours ago, peteb said:

I remember having a chat with Phil Nixon (the guy who used to run Bass Gear) when he first started carrying Fodera basses.

I drove Vic mad one afternoon, playing 3 of their Foderas. All 3 were the best feeling and sounding basses I've held. One was my favourite, can't remember which model, but it was over £6000, which was a deal killer for me. IMO that bass was worth every penny. Playing it was a highlight moment in my bass life.  

[adamg67]

I'm pretty sure I've hit my limit now, I can just about claim to tell the difference between a £700 (second hand) bass and a budget one, anything more than that would be wasted on me. I seem to be happy with 3 basses at a time as well, it may go down to 2.

I'm another that thinks that as far as looks go the more you spend the less you get.

[Len_derby]

13 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

I would never do that. But that would also go for a Squier!

Ever since I  @Andyjr1515 made me a wonderful custom bass I’ve switched over to a flask of tea and a sandwich in grease-proof paper for refreshments 😋.

[Al Krow]

A cheaper bass is generally unlikely to be better than a high-end bass - but it'll often be plenty good enough!

I'm still not entirely sure what the OP's concern is? He's spent a long time over many years getting some lovely basses and has previously said he can hear and appreciate the difference in tone. That's fantastic and a great position to be in.

My advice would be to simply enjoy playing them and not angst about something that's not a problem.

Edited April 25, 2021 by Al Krow

[ezbass]

18 hours ago, TheGreek said:

What we don't necessarily appreciate is how good "budget" gear is today compared to what was around when we started playing. I started playing in the early/mid 80s and TBH a lot of the used gear that was available was garbage.

Very much this ^^^^

I haven’t owned a budget bass in quite a long while now (even my recent MIM Mustang was nearly £1k) but it’s because I can afford to be choosy and, up until recently at least, was playing live regularly with them.

However, I also still play guitar (bring on the flaming torches and pitchforks) but not live and I don’t own a single guitar that cost over £400 (save for an acoustic from way back in my guitar playing/gigging days). I’m really into budget line guitars (Epiphone & Squier) that I can mess about with and upgrade if and where necessary, without the potential for ruining or devaluing a more expensive instrument. I’m currently thinking about getting myself a Mustang guitar and after looking at Performers and Vinteras (online at least), I think I’ll probably go with the Squier CV for the reasons previously stated.

Back to the original post, are expensive basses worth it, or would you better off with a cheaper bass? Yes and, err, yes. Will both basses get the job done? More than likely and probably not with a massively different hands on experience (providing the cheaper bass is well set up and you didn’t buy something that was not your normal taste in terms of playability). Is owning an expensive bass worth it? Yes, with the caveat of only if it gives you pleasure for its own sake (if it makes you feel guilty, move it on).

[ezbass]

23 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

A cheaper bass is generally unlikely to be better than a high-end bass - but it'll often be plenty good enough!

And this ^^^^
 

 

[chris_b]

Better quality is not a perception, it's a real thing. Whether it matters is a personal decision.

When making our daily choices, most of us regularly disregard the cheapest. Bass gear is no different.

 

[Woodinblack]

20 minutes ago, ezbass said:

However, I also still play guitar (bring on the flaming torches and pitchforks) but not live and I don’t own a single guitar that cost over £400 (save for an acoustic from way back in my guitar playing/gigging days).

Same here, but one of them is a gibson. Its not quite as good as the indie but it is a different sound.

9 minutes ago, chris_b said:

When making our daily choices, most of us regularly disregard the cheapest. Bass gear is no different.

There is a man that didn't observe their local high street on opening day a few weeks back, and the massive queues outside primark.

[Ed_S]

18 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

I would never do that. But that would also go for a Squier!

 

1 minute ago, Len_derby said:

Ever since I  @Andyjr1515 made me a wonderful custom bass I’ve switched over to a flask of tea and a sandwich in grease-proof paper for refreshments 😋.

Heh, yeah, that's always an option!

I wish it were different, but it's been the reality of just about every venue we've ever played so I cut my cloth accordingly. I'd rather play a bass that I don't mind leaving in a gear store along with everyone else's stuff and then be able to head out unencumbered for an hour to get some food and enjoy 'being' in a band rather than just 'playing' in a band. Of course if I got back to the toilet venue and found out that my gear had gone, I'd be absolutely raging and it'd certainly mess the gig up, but after I'd calmed down I'd know that I took a calculated risk and lost.

[NancyJohnson]

I've got six basses that have cost me from £30 to £5.5k, so a pretty broad price range, but they all give me joy.  They're all set up broadly the same, action borderline rattly and in truth with a degree of tweaking amp side, they all sound similar.

Thing is, I've always liked to be surrounded by nice stuff and I've worked long and hard paying the mortgage and bills, so with the house paid, it was time to throw some swag at (subjectively) better kit. 

I can appreciate that more work has gone into the expensive kit - the fit and feel is immediately identifiable - but I can't warrant the £5,470 price difference, no.  It's all just wood and metal.

 

[tegs07]

2 minutes ago, NancyJohnson said:

I've got six basses that have cost me from £30 to £5.5k, so a pretty broad price range, but they all give me joy.  They're all set up broadly the same, action borderline rattly and in truth with a degree of tweaking amp side, they all sound similar.

Thing is, I've always liked to be surrounded by nice stuff and I've worked long and hard paying the mortgage and bills, so with the house paid, it was time to throw some swag at (subjectively) better kit. 

I can appreciate that more work has gone into the expensive kit - the fit and feel is immediately identifiable - but I can't warrant the £5,470 price difference, no.  It's all just wood and metal.

 

You may also be supporting some skilled luthiers  and allowing an important craft to continue well into the mass produced mechanised market. As I get more of my income back I am trying to do the same as well as supporting small local bakers, butchers (haven’t found a candlestick maker yet).

[chris_b]

5 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

There is a man that didn't observe their local high street on opening day a few weeks back, and the massive queues outside primark.

Primark's demographic probably doesn't adhere to closely to normal definitions of sense and judgement.

 

[Marvin]

1 hour ago, chris_b said:

Primark's demographic probably doesn't adhere to closely to normal definitions of sense and judgement.

 

Was that intended to come out as sneering snobbery, because that's how it reads?

[TheGreek]

Remember that gear bearing the name of a respected Luthier does not guarantee a quality build. I refer really to the foreign made Overwater/ Tanglewood basses which appeared a few years ago. The fit and finish left much to be desired so Chris & Co stopped any further production.

I had one for a while - at first I didn't notice the sharp fret ends but after building up a callous on the first finger on my fretting hand I soon took notice.

Thankfully the entry models Spectors, G&Ls and Laklands are much better.

[NancyJohnson]

2 hours ago, tegs07 said:

You may also be supporting some skilled luthiers and allowing an important craft to continue well into the mass produced mechanised market. As I get more of my income back I am trying to do the same as well as supporting small local bakers, butchers (haven’t found a candlestick maker yet).

Well, the two most expensive ones (Lulls) were small shop instruments - I do wonder how much input Mike Lull had in the making of these and how things will progress now that he's passed away (the business seems in good hands with his son Spencer taking over).  The two Hamers are 1980s models and damn you Fender for shutting them down.

[peteb]

9 hours ago, chris_b said:

I drove Vic mad one afternoon, playing 3 of their Foderas. All 3 were the best feeling and sounding basses I've held. One was my favourite, can't remember which model, but it was over £6000, which was a deal killer for me. IMO that bass was worth every penny. Playing it was a highlight moment in my bass life.  

The best bass that I have ever played (at a jam session) was a Fodera. I don't think that it would work for the genres that I play, but it was a great bass. I would happily pay £2k for a bass, I think that £6k is more than I would really want to pay / comfortably afford. 

But I can see why some people would pay that price for that particular bass. 

[hiram.k.hackenbacker]

10 hours ago, chris_b said:

I drove Vic mad one afternoon, playing 3 of their Foderas. All 3 were the best feeling and sounding basses I've held. One was my favourite, can't remember which model, but it was over £6000, which was a deal killer for me. IMO that bass was worth every penny. Playing it was a highlight moment in my bass life.  

 

58 minutes ago, peteb said:

The best bass that I have ever played (at a jam session) was a Fodera. I don't think that it would work for the genres that I play, but it was a great bass. I would happily pay £2k for a bass, I think that £6k is more than I would really want to pay / comfortably afford. 

But I can see why some people would pay that price for that particular bass. 

This is my third. I can't imagine finding one that better suits me. It might be out there somewhere, but I can't say I'm actively looking for it 😀.

I wouldn't mind trying one of these Series 3 Yin Yangs....

[MacDaddy]

22 hours ago, Ed_S said:

My real problem with the concept of a Fodera is leaving it in a disabled bog that's being used as an impromptu gear store in a rock bar, 

Hi Ed. I know people who work in Disability Awareness, can you let me know which bars are using the disabled toilets like this?

ta.