Sharing backline

[Muzz]

I've lent gear a few times, and I guess I've been lucky (tho I don't do many multi-band things) but it's always been treated with respect. I even lent my Dingwall to some friends of friends who'd turned up at a gig for our guitarist's birthday so they could do a few choons. The lad was super-careful (he even took his belt and buttoned jacket off) and loved it. Whenever I've been to a multi-band thing, I usually leave the EQ alone and just adjust my Stomp...

[Vin Venal]

It's so easy these days to have a decent DI pedal on your board, and/or a tiny class D amp in your gig bag. Only thing it really makes sense to borrow is a cab, which I wouldn't have any issue with, as long as I knew it could handle the output.

[12stringbassist]

8 hours ago, uk_lefty said:

Surely in a nostalgia act where the overall sound is key they'd either bring or hire their own gear? Crazy. If you're borrowing stuff you have to respect the owner. When I've done multi band things if I have to plug in to an amp I don't know I don't play with the settings unless it sounds absolutely terrible, you never know where you might end up! 

The band I was in was run by the drummer who was matey with the singer / guitarist from the headliners. He bent over backwards to get them to play with us. We just were told they were using our gear. They had watched us from out front and I did say the amp was set and didn't need changing. He just didn't listen. There wouldn't have been a problem if he had left it alone. Like you say, it's about respect.

[casapete]

Years ago when I was playing guitar in a country rock band, we were supporting a well known rock n roll band who turned up a bit late for the set up. They had to get a piano onto the small stage which made it tight for room. With time running out the guitarist asked me if he could use my Fender Twin - he said it would save him dragging his identical amp in from the van, so I agreed as it made sense. His band also used our drum kit. We did the gig, then watched the main band who were great. Guitarist didn’t talk to me afterwards ( let alone buy me a pint for the use of my amp) and his band packed down quickly and left us to strike our gear. Wasn’t until half an hour later I realised my fairly new cover I’d had made for my amp was missing - what an utter tw*t! Never got it back. 😡

[Beer of the Bass]

I've found it a little awkward where I have gear that's at all idiosyncratic. Particularly on guitar where I've used a couple of different valve combos that I built - I've had people get annoyed there's no dirt channel, that it's not some big clean pedal platform amp to run their looper into, and a lot of younger musicians have never encountered valve amps at all.

I've had someone struggle through a half hour soundcheck not figuring out how to turn an amp on while I was next door eating and then be grumpy at me, and others frantically toggling the power switch because it didn't make sound instantly (which is terrible for valve rectifiers). But if I hang around and offer explanation on how to use it, some find that patronising...

[BigRedX]

I've found that having idiosyncratic amplification to be the safest route. 

IME other musicians are either completely terrified of it and touch nothing, or they quickly find something else to use. I used to own a rig that only had three obvious user controls on it - input volume and 2 output volumes for a bi-amped speaker system. No-one ever messed with that!

My current rig is a Helix and FRFR. I have a reasonably generic patch on the Helix that other bassists are welcome to use, but otherwise, unless one of the heavily effected patches that I use with my bands is suitable they are going to be SOoL.

[chris_b]

15 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

I've found that having idiosyncratic amplification to be the safest route.

A firm and polite "No", always works for me.

[Steve Browning]

1 hour ago, Beer of the Bass said:

I've found it a little awkward where I have gear that's at all idiosyncratic. Particularly on guitar where I've used a couple of different valve combos that I built - I've had people get annoyed there's no dirt channel, that it's not some big clean pedal platform amp to run their looper into, and a lot of younger musicians have never encountered valve amps at all.

I've had someone struggle through a half hour soundcheck not figuring out how to turn an amp on while I was next door eating and then be grumpy at me, and others frantically toggling the power switch because it didn't make sound instantly (which is terrible for valve rectifiers). But if I hang around and offer explanation on how to use it, some find that patronising...

Reminds me of the time I was playing a festival and being broadcast on tv. I approached the amp, plugged in and switched. whereupon it went through some sort of demo-type mode of flickering lights etc and left me wondering how the hell it worked. It was some kind of Peavey and I was just glad to get a noise out of it by the time the drummer counted us in!

[Woodwind]

I'm no longer in musical contexts where gear sharing is common, but On a couple of occasions where I've been traveling long distance to perform I have had to borrow equipment (usually a drum) from one of the other acts.

I liase with the relevant band member long in advance and offer a cash deposit up front.

This comes from years playing in rock band settings where gear sharing happened regularly (usually me lending) and it was always rubbish - Crap attitudes, entitlement, disregard for the borrowed equipment.

I treat those I borrow from as I would like to be treated.

 

Edited May 5, 2021 by Woodwind

[uk_lefty]

56 minutes ago, Woodwind said:

I treat those I borrow from as I would like to be treated

If only everyone took that approach, this thread would be very short! 

[BassedinBucks]

From all of the comments, this is clearly a Marmite thing! I have two different experiences. I have run lots of beer festivals and usually put 8 local bands on including the band I'm in on each day, with 20 mins turnaround time between them, 50-60 min sets. I supply the full back line and it is all my own good quality gear, even cymbals and snare if drummers want to travel light, and I have never had any breakage or damage ever (a valve went on one of my Fender guitar amps once, that's it). All bands play for free because these events are fund raisers, but they get as much free beer as they want, so can go home in a taxi with minimal gear. And they all ask to come back year after year because the events are so good with very appreciative large audiences of up to 1,500 and a superb PA, stage and light show. I provide a Berg Forte HP amp and two Vanderkley cabs for the bass and always set the gain for each player so that it won't clip, and ask them not to adjust it which has always been respected, but the amp does have protection overrides built in. The PA is massive and does all the work.

I have also run sound and stage at several very large festivals (up to 40,000) where we put a top quality full back line on stage hired from pro outlets; the bands there are famous and get paid highly, some have surprisingly little respect for the gear and complain about everything, others are absolutely charming and grateful for everything; the charming ones tend to be the older stars and celebs, some of the young ones have a very unrefined attitude to stage crew, equipment and the crowd; I wouldn't ever want to lend my personal gear to them.

[Lozz196]

I found that too, in established bands if there was ever an A-hole amongst them it was inevitably someone new to the band & fame rather than someone used to it.

[funkypenguin]

2 hours ago, BassedinBucks said:

From all of the comments, this is clearly a Marmite thing! I have two different experiences. I have run lots of beer festivals and usually put 8 local bands on including the band I'm in on each day, with 20 mins turnaround time between them, 50-60 min sets. I supply the full back line and it is all my own good quality gear, even cymbals and snare if drummers want to travel light, and I have never had any breakage or damage ever (a valve went on one of my Fender guitar amps once, that's it). All bands play for free because these events are fund raisers, but they get as much free beer as they want, so can go home in a taxi with minimal gear. And they all ask to come back year after year because the events are so good with very appreciative large audiences of up to 1,500 and a superb PA, stage and light show. I provide a Berg Forte HP amp and two Vanderkley cabs for the bass and always set the gain for each player so that it won't clip, and ask them not to adjust it which has always been respected, but the amp does have protection overrides built in. The PA is massive and does all the work.

I have also run sound and stage at several very large festivals (up to 40,000) where we put a top quality full back line on stage hired from pro outlets; the bands there are famous and get paid highly, some have surprisingly little respect for the gear and complain about everything, others are absolutely charming and grateful for everything; the charming ones tend to be the older stars and celebs, some of the young ones have a very unrefined attitude to stage crew, equipment and the crowd; I wouldn't ever want to lend my personal gear to them.

If you get the kind of bands from situation A, thats fantastic and I would be very appreciative of you setting up a Berg/vanderkley rig for me to play through if I were in that situation. Unfortunately I've come across a lot of situation B (younger) in the past. I think its fair enough that I don't want players like that anywhere near my Hellborg amp.

[Downunderwonder]

Beware the razor blades in your Marmite.

[Rubbersoul]

I’ve only ever played multi band gigs and gear share was always agreed in advance. I think the best way (as I think has already been suggested) is for every band on the bill to bring an item of backline. To me, that means everyone is invested fully in the gig and makes for a more enjoyable event. I don’t have boutique gear though, it’s all second hand, hard working and sturdy as a sturdy thing.

[mcnach]

I used a battered but effective Peavey 410 cab for years. Cheap and ugly. I still don't appreciate people treating it like a garbage bin or spilling beer on it or resting their muddy feet on it. It's me who has to take it back home, it's me who has to clean it, and smell it. The cost of gear is not a factor. Lack of consideration, however... 

 

[casapete]

16 minutes ago, mcnach said:

I used a battered but effective Peavey 410 cab for years. Cheap and ugly. I still don't appreciate people treating it like a garbage bin or spilling beer on it or resting their muddy feet on it. It's me who has to take it back home, it's me who has to clean it, and smell it. The cost of gear is not a factor. Lack of consideration, however... 

 

I feel your pain. I had a Peavey 410TX, used it for years. Seriously underrated cab in my opinion, shame it weighed a ton. ( Had a 210TX as well, another great bargain cab.) Mine survived a few months in Morocco, shipped out there with just a vinyl covering too. Just because it’s regular stuff is no reason to abuse it though.

[NancyJohnson]

I've been in plenty of situations of being the 'headline' act where other bands have used our stuff.  Drummer just bought an old beater kit, so he was OK so long as any drummer using it used their own pedals/smare/cymbals, from my perspective, if someone asked nicely I'd probably say yes.

That said, I used to get royally whizzed when bass players frankly ignored my requests and saw my gear as being the opportunity to see just how loud they could play.  Another facet being headliners rocking up with a 1x12" Rumble combo, seeing my kit and literally salivating at the prospect of using it.  (This also happened with one of my basses too, I had a white Gibson Thunderbird and was asked by one guy whether he could use it for his set as he'd 'never played a real Gibson before.')

I played the Dublin Castle about three years ago, bill-wise we were the meat in the sandwich, 1st band used my stuff (I new them, so fine), headliners also used my stuff - they were literally up on the stage and plugging in seconds after we'd finsihed and didn't even ask to use the drums or my kit - and their set went on and on and on and on and on.  No help with the load-out, no mention of thanks and they stole one of my guitar stands.  W*nkers.

 

[Supernaut]

Too many times have I had a bass player awkwardly shuffle up to me and ask to use my amp just before they go on.

I hand them a DI box and say, "Enjoy!". 

[David B]

The headline drummer using my kit (at a multi band freebie party) told me afterwards that he likes to loosen everything off so when I clear the stage afterwards I should look out for washers and screws. That was years ago and it still rankles. And yes I did find screws and washers which had become detached. I had a damn fine kit that night and I’m convinced he adjusted everything just to show how “pro” he was. However, other than that I have been on both sides of kit and pa sharing without any issues. There’s always one.

[E sharp]

Issues can also occur with ‘pro’ players. 
 

Used to play every year at a rally, and my mate did the PA for first few years. He and I had bought matching Eden rigs from the old Wapping Bass Centre years earlier, and he had his set up as a loaner for the weekend. They’d booked a famous Bass Player one year, who had a ‘pub band’ set up, when he wasn’t being famous. He proceeded to rock up, turn everything up full, and crack on. Nearly blew it up!!

Also, hasn’t there been a few posts on here over the years, about Norman Watt Roy trashing other people’s Bass gear, and then just walking off? Cause he’s a “good ‘ol boy” ain’t he !

[BigRedX]

Can some please explain with science why constantly clipping the front end of an amp will cause it to fail, because I can't see any reason for it? 

In 40 years of playing I have only had two amp failures.

One was a very ancient and badly looked after valve amp that I had acquired for next to nothing and which stopped working between sets for no apparent reason the second time I used it.

The other was user error when I inadvertently plugged both sides of a stereo amp into the same speaker cab and released the magic smoke.

[cetera]

When I used to do the KISS tribute show I'd sometimes get a young support band bassist asking if he could use my bass rig. My reply (often said while I was in full 'Gene Simmons' get up 😝) of "Sure, if I can use your girlfriend" usually sent them packing... lol! 🤣😂😜

Edited May 7, 2021 by cetera

[Beer of the Bass]

11 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

Can some please explain with science why constantly clipping the front end of an amp will cause it to fail, because I can't see any reason for it? 

In 40 years of playing I have only had two amp failures.

One was a very ancient and badly looked after valve amp that I had acquired for next to nothing and which stopped working between sets for no apparent reason the second time I used it.

The other was user error when I inadvertently plugged both sides of a stereo amp into the same speaker cab and released the magic smoke.

I'd be more concerned at the speaker end of things, personally. Though I've often tended to have amps that aren't crazy high powered compared to the speakers, so it would take some unusual use to really stress the drivers (detuning, crazy effects, excess low-end EQ etc).

[Rubbersoul]

2 hours ago, mcnach said:

I used a battered but effective Peavey 410 cab for years. Cheap and ugly. I still don't appreciate people treating it like a garbage bin or spilling beer on it or resting their muddy feet on it. It's me who has to take it back home, it's me who has to clean it, and smell it. The cost of gear is not a factor. Lack of consideration, however... 

 

I take your point. Thankfully I've not had this happen to my gear but if it did I would be royally whizzed.