Are six string basses addictive?

[funkypenguin]

On 07/05/2021 at 17:33, TheLowDown said:

If you think a 6er doesn't add complication to navigation then maybe there is still a lot of work to be done on fretboard awareness. 

Thats what you're saying here.....

 

[TheLowDown]

On 20/05/2021 at 02:20, funkypenguin said:

Thats what you're saying here.....

 

It's not. I didn't say that it's complicated. I said it's more complicated compared to 4 string. Big difference, except to some.

Whereas Doddy says "I also don't think that it particularly complicates the navigation of the fingerboard. Once you've spent a bit of time learning the notes on the added strings there's not much extra thinking involved.". 

Ah that's OK then, so there is no added complication when playing a 6 string compared to a 4 string? Nope, because Doddy reassures me that: "At least nothing that an hour or two in the practice room learning the notes won't sort out.". Wow, that was quick!! Otherwise it shows that his understanding of the fretboard leaves a lot to be desired, and which perfectly explains his views.

Anyone unfortunate to read Doddy's guide to the 6 string for advice is going to be very misinformed.

Edited May 21, 2021 by TheLowDown

[Guest]

It’s a historical thing. Bass guitar in its current form began with the Fender. It had 4 strings for a long time (ignoring experimental Fenders like the Bass V and the guitar tuned down an octave, whose functional design wasn’t primarily aimed at playing bass lines). A lot of great music was made and continues to be made on 4 string basses. So a lot of bands and musicians expect to see and hear that. 5-strings really came about due to necessity rather than fashion - keyboard bass became popular from the early 80s and again there are a lot of great keyboard lines that go below a low E. That, together with improvements in amplification meant that low notes could be heard. But the first proper production 5 wasn’t the Stingray in 1987, even if players like Jimmy Johnson were using fives years before this. 6-string really gained popularity in the bass world, as a solo and bass instrument with John Patitucci, again in the late 80s with his Ken Smith. Anthony Jackson is considered a pioneer with Carl Thompson much earlier than this, and IMHO his vision of it as an extended range instrument for playing bass lines and ensemble parts makes sense. What I like less is a six being used primarily as a solo instrument - it’s OK but chords don’t sound great because the register is too low (and there’s a reason why guitars are tuned as they are, makes chords easier to play). The challenge with a 6 (and to a degree a 5 as well) is not to play extra stuff all the time, just because you can. Scott D did a video on how the extra range makes you prone to noodleitis - you can overcome it, but I guarantee you’ll suffer from it at some point on a 6

The main reason for objecting to a 6 is a cultural thing - it’s not a Fender so either you’re no good, you’re not not a true musician or you’ll overplay all the time - and to be fair I’ve seen a few people on YT how suffer from this malaise. But there’s nothing inherently wrong with a 5 or 6.

[binky_bass]

There is genuinely a hint of '6+ string player' prejudice in this place! Who gives a monkey about how many strings we play... Person A wants a 1 string bass, cool. Person B wants a 10 string bass, cool. I just don't understand for a second why anyone would think anything negative about a person for playing something slightly different to them. It does genuinely make me wonder what other things in these peoples lives that they take issue with just because there's a 'difference'... The world is not grey, we are all different, enjoy what you do and allow others to enjoy what they do.

[FinnDave]

I played a couple of six string basses for a year or so, and played nothing else during that time. For some reason, I decided to get a four string out and play it on the morning of a gig, played the entire set at home and took a six and four with me to the gig that evening. The six stayed in its case and I never played either of the sixes again. Both were sold over a year ago and I haven't missed them once. 

For a year a I was addicted to six strings, then broke the habit in a day.

I don't think sixes are better than fours, or vice versa, but the four is more natural to me as I have played them for 45 years. I always had to think where I was on the six string fretboard, whereas on the four it is automatic. I suspect that my year on the sixes improved my four string playing, though.

[BoomTing]

2 hours ago, binky_bass said:

There is genuinely a hint of '6+ string player' prejudice in this place! Who gives a monkey about how many strings we play... Person A wants a 1 string bass, cool. Person B wants a 10 string bass, cool. I just don't understand for a second why anyone would think anything negative about a person for playing something slightly different to them. It does genuinely make me wonder what other things in these peoples lives that they take issue with just because there's a 'difference'... The world is not grey, we are all different, enjoy what you do and allow others to enjoy what they do.

Amen to This. Enjoy Your lovely Yamaha DiMarco, don't listen to the detractors & bass police they can do what they want.

[DiMarco]

25 minutes ago, BoomTing said:

Amen to This. Enjoy Your lovely Yamaha DiMarco, don't listen to the detractors & bass police they can do what they want.

No worries, I have been going my own way for 30+ years on bass now.. Starting off on a fretless 4 string in 1990, playing hardcore metal on it.
Even back then the stuff I did made people raise a brow. Whatever you guys do be authentic to yourself BUT keep an open mind towards others. Me I want to keep learning and exploring so there's no telling what I will be playing next year, maybe a fan fret monster of some sort? Or even an upright or a balalaika bass.... There really is no limit and it is such fun!

This morning I have been jamming on my 8 string (4 with octaves) and even that now plays more easily and faster then ever before.
I do blame my six string. It forces me to improve my hand positioning and this pays off on all my other basses as well. For this reason alone I would encourage every bassist to play a six for a while even if only at home. It also expands your fretboard knowledge since when you include some chords - it makes the fretboard boxes tick (LOL!).

 

Edited May 20, 2021 by DiMarco
typos always typos

[Guest]

3 hours ago, binky_bass said:

Who gives a monkey about how many strings we play... Person A wants a 1 string bass, cool. Person B wants a 10 string bass, cool. I just don't understand for a second why anyone would think anything negative about a person for playing something slightly different to them.

I recall an old quote along the lines of “I grow potatoes in my garden. Now if my neighbour comments on the size or quality of them or the suitability of the variety of potato, I quite rightly tell him to mind his own business. However, when I start exhibiting my potatoes at the village fair in the hope of winning prizes, I should accept that I may be in for some criticism and that’s a part of life”.

Fact is the entertainment industry is founded on image and (sadly) some degree of prejudice. Take Allan Holdsworth for example. Highly regarded innovator on guitar who was instantly recognisable and even to this day spawned few decent imitators. However, he lived on the edge of music and was quite prepared to accept that his music and playing wasn’t palatable to the majority of listeners (including musicians!) It didn’t mean that his music was less valuable, and nor did it invalidate any of his choices. But it is a niche.

The same goes for any instrument not in the mainstream of its family. In reality it matters not one whit what instrument you have, but what you play. But it does matter to a lot of bands and a lot of situations what you and your instrument look like. No different than turning up to a roots or trad blues gig as a drummer with a massive kit on a rack, 9 toms, an array of cymbals and electronic drum kit behind you a la Neil Peart. It doesn’t mean that drummer won’t sound fantastic with the band but there’s immediately prejudice there from other musicians (if he/she has that big a lot are they going to be playing all of it all the time? How come two thirds of the stage is taken up by the drum kit? What message does it send out to the punters?)

I don’t think anyone on this thread is saying that 6+ strings isn’t a valid bass, just expressing their preference. I have a 6 but don’t use it much because I like to play a lot of older music where I don’t really have a need for the extra top string, but I do play 5s mostly out of habit. It all depends on what you want do with it - if you’re a solo bass player like Steve Lawson or Michael Manring then you can do what you like, and pretty much anything goes in that sphere.

[Al Krow]

@FDC484950 really good post, thanks.

However I don't think anyone really notices whether we're playing 4 or 5 strings though, so it's a little different to a big drum kit taking up a lot of stage presence? I mean it was two hours into the first rehearsal that I took a 5 string to before my bandmates spotted the change, and even then it was only when I stopped and asked them if there was anything different about my set up! 😂

But perhaps a 6 string bass is a little more unusual in that regard? But my sense is actually not that much really and if it was played well no one is going to mind at all - it certainly doesn't take up any more stage presence than a 4 string. 

On the other hand you might be expected in some quarters or at the recording studio to turn up with a Fender P.

Edited May 20, 2021 by Al Krow

[binky_bass]

There's only one reasonable course of action here:

The BassChat Brawl... 

We all meet up in a dimly lit carpark at exactly midnight with our basses and engage in a battle royale, smashing each others faces in with our basses until one person walks (crawls?) out victorious, that person shall hence for dictate to all others which bass we must all play. 

I see this as the only fair way to break this deadlock. 

[Woodinblack]

4 hours ago, DiMarco said:

This morning I have been jamming on my 8 string (4 with octaves) and even that now plays more easily and faster then ever before.

 

I got rid of my 8 because although I liked the sound, it was basically a rich 4 and I don't realy get round to using 4s. There are some 10s around, but they seem so rare.

[binky_bass]

10 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

I got rid of my 8 because although I liked the sound, it was basically a rich 4 and I don't realy get round to using 4s. There are some 10s around, but they seem so rare.

https://reverb.com/item/6598240-prat-basses-godzilla-c3-wtf-24-24-string-bass-8x3-trans-dark-emerald-green-axe-handler-arc-stand?utm_source=android-app&utm_medium=android-share&utm_campaign=listing&utm_content=6598240-prat-basses-godzilla-c3-wtf-24-24-string-bass-8x3-trans-dark-emerald-green-axe-handler-arc-stand

One for you then? 

[Hellzero]

4 hours ago, binky_bass said:

There's only one reasonable course of action here:

The BassChat Brawl... 

We all meet up in a dimly lit carpark at exactly midnight with our basses and engage in a battle royale, smashing each others faces in with our basses until one person walks (crawls?) out victorious, that person shall hence for dictate to all others which bass we must all play. 

I see this as the only fair way to break this deadlock. 

May we team together against those less than 6 strings villains ?

[Woodinblack]

1 hour ago, binky_bass said:

https://reverb.com/item/6598240

One for you then? 

Oh hang on, yes, lets just check my bank account. Oh..

[Paulhauser]

19 hours ago, binky_bass said:

There's only one reasonable course of action here:

The BassChat Brawl... 

We all meet up in a dimly lit carpark at exactly midnight with our basses and engage in a battle royale, smashing each others faces in with our basses until one person walks (crawls?) out victorious, that person shall hence for dictate to all others which bass we must all play. 

I see this as the only fair way to break this deadlock. 

I have 4, 5 and 6 string basses so where do I stand? (also two guitars and a few cymbals, too 🙂 )

[binky_bass]

21 minutes ago, Paulhauser said:

I have 4, 5 and 6 string basses so where do I stand? (also two guitars and a few cymbals, too 🙂 )

You'll have to tape everything together and use it as some kind of rudimentary war-axe. 

[Al Krow]

I don't think this guy would get turned down for audition if he turned up with his 6 string: https://youtu.be/hmkR3gmJh7w?t=220

[krispn]

Would he have actually played that whole bass part on the track or was this just a look what I can play type video to sell SBL's? I mean I'm not knocking the chops and he's in no way 'gauche' but he's stepped on just about everyone else parts from Chaka to the horns. The MD would have a fit 😫

[funkypenguin]

1 hour ago, krispn said:

Would he have actually played that whole bass part on the track or was this just a look what I can play type video to sell SBL's? I mean I'm not knocking the chops and he's in no way 'gauche' but he's stepped on just about everyone else parts from Chaka to the horns. The MD would have a fit 😫

Thats Andrew Gouche. And he was the MD when he was playing with Chaka Khan....  If you want to find out what the actual show was like, the record is called All The Hits Live. The band is absolutely smoking IMO.

Ben

[krispn]

56 minutes ago, funkypenguin said:

Thats Andrew Gouche. And he was the MD when he was playing with Chaka Khan....  If you want to find out what the actual show was like, the record is called All The Hits Live. The band is absolutely smoking IMO.

Ben

Thanks Ben I was being tongue in cheek 😉

[Baloney Balderdash]

On 01/05/2021 at 12:34, Ricky Rioli said:

I note that if Jaco had wanted six strings, he could easily have pulled the frets out of a Fender Jazz VI....but then, what kind of serious musician would play a short-scale, eh? 🤪

Word! 

Yeah, I've always thought Stanley Clarke was a complete hack on a bass too, with his cheap budget short scale custom signature Alembic totally amateur bass. 

And what was that one hit wonder pop band, The Beads?, who's bass player, I think she was called Paula Marty or something along those lines, played a short scale as well.

She looked like a boy too.

Who can take musicians like that seriously?

I mean seriously, com'on, at least play a proper grown up's instrument. 

Face it, short scale basses are nothing more than children's toys, and the Earth is and always has been absolutely and completely flat, why I tune all my basses to B#! 

 

Edited May 22, 2021 by Baloney Balderdash

[DiMarco]

Unfollowed. Too much cow poop going on.

 

[Doddy]

On 20/05/2021 at 02:58, TheLowDown said:

Ah that's OK then, so there is no added complication when playing a 6 string compared to a 4 string? Nope, because Doddy reassures me that: "At least nothing that an hour or two in the practice room learning the notes won't sort out.". Wow, that was quick!! Otherwise it shows that his understanding of the fretboard leaves a lot to be desired, and which perfectly explains his views.

Or maybe, I can learn the extra notes on the extra strings quickly because I have a very good understanding of the fretboard?

Think about it...if you have a full understanding of the fingerboard on a 4 string, then only need to learn the note positions on 2 extra strings- only one string if you're moving from a 5. How long would you expect it to take you to learn that?   If you are coming at it from nothing then it's going to take longer, but if you know the fingerboard pretty well to begin with, it's a relatively simple thing to learn where the notes are.

On 20/05/2021 at 02:58, TheLowDown said:

Anyone unfortunate to read Doddy's guide to the 6 string for advice is going to be very misinformed.

I'm not giving anyone 6 string advise. I'm just pointing out that I disagree with your points about the 6 string being a lot more complicated than a 4.  However if you do want me to give you a guide, I'll happily sit down and prove everything I say.

 

[FinnDave]

When I started playing 6 strings I had not (and still haven't) played a five string, so the two reference points (lowest & highest strings were both different. I did find this confusing at times, certainly for more than ten minutes!

[Ed_S]

Genuine and totally un-troll-ish comment here (which I say because I realise it might easily sound like one) but speaking only for myself, if you play by ear and don't actually know any of the notes you're playing - just where to find the next one you want to hear relative to the one you're currently playing - 6 really doesn't add any complexity or take any time to 'learn' at all. Just like as long as the intervals between the strings are 'normal', the note that each one is tuned to isn't that important; just find the start note and work from there.

I admit freely the downside is that if you can't hear yourself on stage it doesn't make for a particularly fun gig, and any bass that's drop/open/nonstandard-tuned is just an unplayable, out-of-tune bass, but in most other circumstances it does make for an easy time with the additional strings on 5s and 6s. I imagine it's maybe like a keyboardist pushing the octave up/down buttons - everything is where you expect to find it, it's just either higher or lower - but I don't play keys so I don't know for sure!

If anything adds any complexity for me, it's changing the string-spacing as you pack more of them in. It's fine - it just takes a few minutes to adjust, which is why I don't swap and change at a gig, because 'a few minutes' is 'a song' which I'm likely to have multiply fluffed, especially if it's a quick one with a lot of string-skipping!