Compressor misconceptions

[Al Krow]

27 minutes ago, BadHands said:

I find the discussion around bass compression fascinating. Is it a case of the Emporer's new clothes, or just passionate players enjoying majoring in the minors of tone control? 

I think many Emperors would claim to feel utterly naked without their compressors always on. Oh wait...

[Cuzzie]

1 hour ago, BadHands said:

I find the discussion around bass compression fascinating. Is it a case of the Emporer's new clothes, or just passionate players enjoying majoring in the minors of tone control? 

The only thing that irks me about it all is when I see people getting recommended compressors as a first pedal. 

 

Compression is an essential part of music.  Bass compression is even more essential as not only does it lend itself to compression being the foundation of the song and the building block of the music having a good understanding of it and how best to use it serves the purpose of making you and the people around you sound better

[lonestar]

On 05/05/2021 at 19:08, grandad said:

I use a TC BH250 with the Spectracomp at about 9 o'clock-ish, into 1 or 2 BF One10. 

To my ears it just thickens up the sound a bit giving me the warmth I like. I expect it evens out the dynamic range a bit too. 

I certainly do not want to have to fiddle about with attack and decay and thresholds etc. 

One knob does it for me, others of course will quite rightly disagree. 

When I was younger I would probably have enjoyed something with loads of twiddling possibilities and also delved into the theory. But I can't be bothered nowadays so I'm pleased to use my 'off the shelf' Spectracomp, it's just the job. 🙂

Go with whatever sounds good to you. 

That’s pretty much why I like my Spectracomp pedal. Usually on the default setting with the knob between a quarter and halfway up.

I kind of understand compression and the parameters, using the stock compression plugins on Logic Pro extensively, but I’ve never felt the need to faff around with these on my Spectracomp when playing.

[BadHands]

45 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

Compression is an essential part of music.  Bass compression is even more essential as not only does it lend itself to compression being the foundation of the song and the building block of the music having a good understanding of it and how best to use it serves the purpose of making you and the people around you sound better

I assume there's been a mistake in this as compression isn't the foundation of many songs. Do you mean bass? 

Aside from that, I don't disagree with you in recorded music. Again, my only point was how irritating it is to see players get recommended compressors as first effects pedals.

Edited May 8, 2021 by BadHands

[Cuzzie]

1 hour ago, BadHands said:

I assume there's been a mistake in this as compression isn't the foundation of many songs. Do you mean bass? 

Aside from that, I don't disagree with you in recorded music. Again, my only point was how irritating it is to see players get recommended compressors as first effects pedals.

Correct - bass is the foundation.

As for the first pedal, well it’s not all evil, a simple1 knob spectracomp will get you there and then via the PC you can alter parameters. If you want to go deeper there are others. I really don’t think it’s that bad as a first pedal providing you work with it, non of us picked up the bass and immediately played Hysteria we all had to work at it.

it’s the Johnny fart pants who goes in with chuff all idea and inclination to work at it and buys a 58 knob and parameter to be part of the club, wants it to be an ‘effect’ and notice a massive change and then curses it.

So far as live vs recorded, maybe that’s my irritation like your one-why is something that benefits a sound (and is acknowledged) only useful in one setting and not all?

Maybe that’s me, but if you went to a poorly balanced gig, I doubt you would come away and say, oh well their recorded stuff was ok, nevermind......

[Cuzzie]

Think of compression like the auto align in a word document.

It doesn’t matter whether it’s left, right or centre aligned - you set it you start typing and it makes it a uniform document. You can still double space, tab, use punctuation etc. But within that it looks neat and tidy like it should 

[BadHands]

Nah, it's all evil to me

Someone's first pedal should be something that excites them, inspires them to play and gets them playing in new and unusual ways. 

Suggesting a compressor as a first pedal is like suggesting a 7-10 band eq to a guitarist for THEIR first pedal. 

[PatrickJ]

18 minutes ago, BadHands said:

Someone's first pedal should be something that excites them, inspires them to play and gets them playing in new and unusual ways. 

Or a tuner  

[Al Krow]

1 minute ago, PatrickJ said:

Or a tuner  

Some folk seem to manage without any pedals other than a tuner and go straight into their amps. I'm a little staggered that anyone goes to listen to them 😁

[krispn]

If someone doesn’t know what pedal they’re after and are simply buying it for the sake of it then buyer beware 😀

Oh actually an eq would be a great suggestion too. But what would be a good first pedal? Something with a bit of utility that will work across many genres and styles like a comp or would you suggest a flanger? I’m being a bit facetious but it highlights a good point. 

* first pedal I always recommend is a boss TU-2 (TU-3) tuner! The most utilitarian pedal going and worth its weight in gold! 

I’m no compression fanboi but I don’t see it as an emperors new cloths item. Years ago I bought a PC-2A, liked it, it got nicked. I didn’t rush out to buy another immediately but when I did feel like trying a comp pedal I was really happy with what I got. 

[Cuzzie]

25 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Some folk seem to manage without any pedals other than a tuner and go straight into their amps. I'm a little staggered that anyone goes to listen to them 😁

I’ve heard some of them, some ok, some I am staggered why they are listened to.

50 minutes ago, BadHands said:

Nah, it's all evil to me

Someone's first pedal should be something that excites them, inspires them to play and gets them playing in new and unusual ways. 

Suggesting a compressor as a first pedal is like suggesting a 7-10 band eq to a guitarist for THEIR first pedal. 

I reckon high on the first list is likely an envelope - bootsy, sir phsycho sexy being listened to and a muff type fuzz, weirdly enough a compressor would help them enjoy it.....😉

[Al Krow]

Apparently Jaco didn't use a pedal board compressor live. Left it to the WR sound engineer. 

I guess he must have sounded shite. 

 

[Cuzzie]

Just now, Al Krow said:

Apparently Jaco didn't use a pedal board compressor live. Left it to the WR sound engineer. 

I guess he must have sounded shite. 

 

Well done - he also only had 4 strings - defo poopy plops compared to the thumb rest crew

[Al Krow]

John Paul Jones pretty much didn't use any effects live, went straight to amp. 

Man, what a loser. 😁

[peteb]

2 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Apparently Jaco didn't use a pedal board compressor live. Left it to the WR sound engineer. 

I guess he must have sounded shite. 

 

I don't think that pedal compressors were a big thing in Jaco's day! 

My suggestion would be to leave as little to chance and to give the sound engineer as good a signal as possible. This is even more important when you are playing pubs and have no FOH engineer. I play on a circuit where there are a lot of decent bands, know a lot of pros and work stagecrew on a big festival (as well as know guys who work for PA companies who do big events). I can tell you that not every bass player who does these gigs uses a compressor pedal. However, those who don't are definitely the exception rather than the rule...  

[Cuzzie]

13 minutes ago, peteb said:

I don't think that pedal compressors were a big thing in Jaco's day! 

My suggestion would be to leave as little to chance and to give the sound engineer as good a signal as possible. This is even more important when you are playing pubs and have no FOH engineer. I play on a circuit where there are a lot of decent bands, know a lot of pros and work stagecrew on a big festival (as well as know guys who work for PA companies who do big events). I can tell you that not every bass player who does these gigs uses a compressor pedal. However, those who don't are definitely the exception rather than the rule...  

Yup

MXR Dyna Comp was about the first in 1972. Most of Jaco’s stuff was about his MXR Digital Delay rack.

Of course with things like Helix, Kemper, Fractal etc. you can bet there is a bit of compression in the signal chain

[Al Krow]

Damn, Paul McCartney's post Beatles pedal board apparently comprised a Pete Cornish multi fx with distortion, chorus and tuner. Can't believe he wasn't using a pedal board comp - what's going on?! 😁

I'll get my coat. 

[Cuzzie]

22 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

John Paul Jones pretty much didn't use any effects live, went straight to amp. 

Man, what a loser. 😁

But he does use a TC electronic head which has an inbuilt spectracomp compressor.........

Carting out old names no matter how good they are is a ludicrous game, as my man above said they were hardly common place - you may as well say they mainly used tube and not solid state heads and that their cars used leaded petrol not unleaded.

[Cuzzie]

Just now, Al Krow said:

I'll get my coat. 

We can all hope.....😉🏃‍♀️💨

[peteb]

You would think that someone who perhaps hasn’t had the opportunity to gain the experience that others had, would listen to those who have been around the block or who obviously have knowledge in this area and think that perhaps it might be worthwhile to at least try a compressor at a few gigs and try and see if they have a point.  

Instead, we get ‘it’s the emperor’s new clothes’, ‘Willie Dixon didn’t use a pedal compressor so are you saying he was cr*p’ and can everybody post iPhone videos to demonstrate some thing that is obviously difficult to capture on a phone. Of course, when someone does manage to do just that they then ask for another twenty people to post videos so they can pick on the worst one as evidence that compression doesn’t work.

It is bizarre and it does amaze me is how some people are so keen to embrace mediocrity (on this and other issues). The thing with sites like BC is that it should be a great resource for kids starting out to get advice. However, so much of the advice given is just nonsense then how is a kid supposed to know who to believe? At least when I started out, I knew if the person giving advice had any credibility, even if there was far less opportunity to access advice in the first place.  

Edited May 8, 2021 by peteb

[Al Krow]

Here's the advice I'd give to a kid starting out: 

Get a decent bass, amp and cab / combo, there's plenty out there, but you don't need to spend the Earth: you'll get a very decent rig and bass for under £1k particularly if you buy used. Give any one of us a call and we can point you in the right direction. Don't get too distracted by gear, it's a lot of fun but it's not what it's really all about. Get a cheap multi fx if you fancy exploring pedals. A Zoom B1-4 costing £65 will be just fine, it's even got a easy to use tuner built in. 

Spend as much time as you can practising and get yourself into a band. Playing live can be great, personally I can't think of too much I'd rather be doing. 

And remember people don't don't give a fig if you have a £5k bass or a £500 one, or about nuances of bass tone, that's what middle aged bassists on BC, like me, spend endless hours discussing. Audiences come to hear you and your band play and to have a great night out. 

And above all, have a lot of fun making music.

Good luck!

Edited May 8, 2021 by Al Krow

[peteb]

38 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Here's the advice I'd give to a kid starting out: 

Get a decent bass and amp, there's plenty out there, but you don't need to spend the Earth: you'll get a very decent rig and bass for under £1k particularly if you buy used. Give any one of us a call and we can point you in the right direction. Don't get too distracted by gear, it's a lot of fun but it's not what it's really all about. Get a cheap multi fx if you fancy exploring pedals. A Zoom B1-4 costing £65 will be just fine, it's even got a easy to use tuner built in. 

Spend as much time as you can practising and get yourself into a band. Playing live can be great, personally I can't think of too much I'd rather be doing. 

And remember people don't don't give a fig if you have a £5k bass or a £500 one, or about nuances of bass tone, that's what middle aged bassists on BC, like me, spend endless hours discussing. Audiences come to hear you and your band play and to have a great night out. 

And above all, have a lot of fun making music.

Good luck!

But you have to ask yourself, if you were starting out as a bass player, would you listen to advice from someone like you?? 

Not that I would necessarily disagree with much of what you have said there. What I would add is that the main thing by far is to learn to play, learn what theory you need to get gigs, work with a metronome and play with as many other musos as you can (especially those who are a level above you).

Also, remember that there are certain things that will get you gigs ahead of people who are broadly at the same stage of playing as you. These are basically about how credible you are to prospective band leaders and include: can you sing, how quickly can you learn material / lock in with a new band, do you look the part and do you have a good sound? It helps if you’re not a d1ck as well and can socialise with people that you don’t know that well.

As far as gear goes, get the bass / rig that will get you the gigs that you want and FFS don’t take a cheap multi fx to an audition for a pro (or decent semi-pro) gig. You certainly don’t need a 5k bass, but avoid the cheapest option that you think might do as well. Things like knowing how to use a compressor may help to make you sound more professional than your rivals (details matter). Remember that your gear has to work for the gigs that you aspire to get and it does help (like it or not) if it will be seen as credible with a potential new band leader or band members.

Edited May 8, 2021 by peteb

[Al Krow]

4 hours ago, Cuzzie said:

But he does use a TC electronic head which has an inbuilt spectracomp compressor.........

Carting out old names no matter how good they are is a ludicrous game, as my man above said they were hardly common place - you may as well say they mainly used tube and not solid state heads and that their cars used leaded petrol not unleaded.

But apparently according to the OP the comp in the TC amp is pants 😉

If you feel that Paul McCartney is too "old a name" to be considering using a pedal board compressor for his live performances (and I'm not sure why you would think that, given he was touring right up to pre Covid), by all means share more modern day successful touring musicians of similar calibre who are actually using pedal board compressors for their live performances and which ones are they using?

Also good to know which ones don't seem to bother with pedal board compressors who, like Paul M, are happy to leave things to venue sound engineer to sort compression out as part of getting a balanced mix. I'll get the ball rolling. 4.23 Mark Stoermer, like John Paul Jones, doesn't appear to be using any pedals live - certainly no compressor in sight. I'm assuming 2013 isn't too far back in ancient history...

I guess I should just make clear I have zero objections to anyone using a pedal board compressor (or a £5k bass for that matter) and apologies if, by taking one side of the debate, it seems I am! Please crack on if it's working for you - that's the most important thing!

The point I'm making here is that if top / world class bassists don't consider a pedal board comp worth bothering with, and vice versa, then there's maybe a message in that for the rest of us mere mortals also in terms of "misconceptions".

Edited May 9, 2021 by Al Krow
Oh dear, I clearly left my coat, but I've got it again now 😁 ​

[krispn]

https://origineffects.com/2017/09/20/hanging-out-with-the-killers/

All depends on the player I suppose or the right tool for the task at hand. Cherry picking one example based on the fact there’s no pedal board in the stage does not in any way mean that the rack or off stage down with the road crew there isn’t a tech stomping the switching not only for the guitarist but the bassist too. Many pros have their gear midi sync’d or it’s the secondary role of their tech to do the stomping for them. Having the gear off stage means the performer can perform and any tech issues can be dealt with away form the masses. I heartily recommend rig rundown videos by Premier Guitar for some great and in some cases insightful videos.

Edited May 9, 2021 by krispn

[Al Krow]

Just now, krispn said:

https://origineffects.com/2017/09/20/hanging-out-with-the-killers/

Yup good one. Probably why they replaced Mark Stoermer 😂

The question was a genuine one, it would be interesting / useful to know which world class bassists have pedal board comps for live use and which don't.