Trace Elliot watts

[Chopthebass]

I saw an ad for a Trace Elliot valve amp (I think Quattra valve or something). It wasn't high wattage, but the seller said that Trace Elliot watts are louder! 

Correct me if I am wrong, but watts are watts aren't they? It made me laugh!

 

[Lozz196]

Well........

For some reason Trace amps do seem to be louder than other brands with comparable power ratings. 
 

Who knows how or why.

[PaulThePlug]

Apparant Sound, Volume, Impact, Heft...  etc a bit like Torque v Power...

A lot to do with the circuit topology and damping factor of the amp to control the speakers along with the speakers sensitivity..

Some need a fair bit of power to make the sound, in that way power doesnt always equate to volume.

Thoroughbred Watts! Hiwatt, Marshall etc....

Edited May 10, 2021 by PaulThePlug

[Chopthebass]

So there could be some truth in it! Interesting. 

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

It has nothing to do with Trace. Valves are subjectively louder than SS due to their natural compression, which you can more or less duplicate with SS using a compressor, but not quite. That's because if you use a compressor with SS the compression takes place early in the signal chain, while most of the compression with valves is in the output valves and output transformer.

[Lfalex v1.1]

My TE sort of went loud. I suppose most people would classify it as loud. I arguably never drove the pre hard enough to get the best out of it.

Swapping to a pre amp and bridged power amp (Ampeg and QSC) that easily gave twice the power and had a fourfold increase in damping factor was an eye-opener. 

[warwickhunt]

Observation from personal use - Trace Elliott amps generally kick in 'loud' from the first 1/10th of the travel of the gain... then it evens out; hence a perception they are louder.  I'm sure it must equate to the pot values.

[ped]

 

[Downunderwonder]

4 hours ago, PaulThePlug said:

a bit like Torque v Power...

Automotive analogies nearly always fail miserably.

Power equals Torque x RPM.

Trace solid state watts give and give. There can't be much of any 'duty cycle' applied to the rated output. After the heat lost is taken from the wall draw rating it's all going out the speaker lead!

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

5 hours ago, warwickhunt said:

Observation from personal use - Trace Elliott amps generally kick in 'loud' from the first 1/10th of the travel of the gain... then it evens out; hence a perception they are louder.  I'm sure it must equate to the pot values.

What you're dealing with there is the amp gain structure. Time was that some manufacturers would intentionally tailor the gain structure to give more volume at the lower end of the dial, so that when trying different amps in the store their amps would seem louder. That difference would disappear once the volume knob was turned up to halfway, but doing that tended to get you thrown out of the store. With most gear today being bought on line there's nothing to 'gain' from that scheme anymore.

[Baloney Balderdash]

The old solid state Trace Elliot amps are known to be capable of sounding much louder than what their rated watts suggest.

I guess that just means they were conservatively rated (as in rated lower than their actual capabilities), not that the actual amount of watts they put out somehow magically sound louder. 

I had no issues whatsoever of hearing myself or being heard by the others with my old SMGP7 130W 1x 15" solid state Trace Elliot over a loud guitarist and hard hitting drummer at band rehearsals with a hard rocking power trio, and that was with the master volume of the combo set just around the 10 o'clock position, if you took out your earplugs it literally hurt badly in your ears. 

Edited May 11, 2021 by Baloney Balderdash

[uk_lefty]

10 hours ago, ped said:

 

That is absolutely brilliant!!! 

[uk_lefty]

Where Trace really went right though was not just producing really loud amps, they still sounded fantastic when cranked up. Lots of depth and punch to the sound even when turned up to wall shaking volumes. 

[Downunderwonder]

46 minutes ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

rated lower than their actual capabilities)

People have put oscilloscopes on them and found the rating matches exactly, and not a lot more with added distortion.

[Hellzero]

25 minutes ago, Downunderwonder said:

People have put oscilloscopes on them and found the rating matches exactly, and not a lot more with added distortion.

This ∆∆∆ and the fact that there's a heavy compression in the sound making you feel it's louder, but in fact is not.

That's the Trace Elliot (heavily compressed) sound. That's a love or hate matter, but it's not more powerful than stated or other amps.

[Downunderwonder]

36 minutes ago, Hellzero said:

This ∆∆∆ and the fact that there's a heavy compression in the sound making you feel it's louder, but in fact is not.

That's the Trace Elliot (heavily compressed) sound. That's a love or hate matter, but it's not more powerful than stated or other amps.

There's no compression unless you wind it on with the SMX series. 

[Jus Lukin]

-

Edited March 14, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[Lozz196]

But they probably are....,

[TheGreek]

Lots of technical explanations above...

All you really need to know - TRACE ELLIOT IS BETTER!!!

[PaulWarning]

some of it is the fact that they go loud in the first 10% of the volume pot as @warwickhunt said,  they do have bollocks and cut through, whether that's built in compression I don't know, also the misconception that a 500 watt amp is twice as loud as a 250 watt one when in fact there's very little difference, and Trace didn't use all sorts of jiggery pokery when advertising the wattage of their amps, unlike some other manufacturers. 

 

[gjones]

5 hours ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

The old solid state Trace Elliot amps are known to be capable of sounding much louder than what their rated watts suggest.

I guess that just means they were conservatively rated (as in rated lower than their actual capabilities), not that the actual amount of watts they put out somehow magically sound louder. 

I had no issues whatsoever of hearing myself or being heard by the others with my old SMGP7 130W 1x 15" solid state Trace Elliot over a loud guitarist and hard hitting drummer at band rehearsals with a hard rocking power trio, and that was with the master volume of the combo set just around the 10 o'clock position, if you took out your earplugs it literally hurt badly in your ears. 

i played through one of those combos, at a gig a few years ago, and was seriously impressed by the power it had and the sound of the thing with a P bass through it. 

The sound engineer said it was the best bass sound he'd ever heard (he possibly didn't get out much).

[Lord Sausage]

I thought Watts had nothing to do with Volume

[TheGreek]

On 19/05/2021 at 18:56, Lord Sausage said:

I thought Watts had nothing to do with Volume

You're right. Watts has to do with Time.

[Lord Sausage]

I better buy a 10000w amp then so I can play offbeats!

25 minutes ago, TheGreek said:

You're right. Watts has to do with Time.

 

[Stub Mandrel]

On 11/05/2021 at 08:26, Baloney Balderdash said:

I guess that just means they were conservatively rated (as in rated lower than their actual capabilities), not that the actual amount of watts they put out somehow magically sound louder. 

Some might say 'honestly rated'... no transient power, music power or instantaneous power nonsense that's used to double or more the power of (say) class D amps. Plus they put out their rated power with minimal distortion unlike many cheaper amps.

I can say Trace Elliot kilos are heavier, though.