What am I missing out on with not having a Rickenbacker?

[martthebass]

7 minutes ago, 4000 said:

Who said you have to move to an 8x10 and “flakey” (really?) valve rigs?  As I mentioned, I use a Tech21 VT500 (6.5lbs) and 2 x Barefaced One10s at 15lb each. Total weight for my 500w rig, 36.5 lbs. Or you can stick a pedal in front of your rig of choice. 

It’s always a given that YMMV.

Either way, if that one bass is your main bass, surely you accommodate it? 

Back in the olden days when I was a fledgling bassist I spent more time changing, biasing, fiddling with valves on old 70s valve tops than I now consider reasonable - hence my comment.  The number of gigs where I ended up swearing at the amp was enough to make me appreciate my later days with Trace Elliot (despite the weight).

If I ever get down to one bass I'll give the 'accommodation' suggestion a go, but I'm not holding my breath. And to be honest, I'd very much doubt my last bass would be the Rick, I do love it but it has too many idiosyncrasies to be a Swiss army knife. Again YMMV.

Edited July 1, 2021 by martthebass

[4000]

Just now, martthebass said:

Back in the olden days when I was a fledgling bassist I spent more time changing, biasing, fiddling with valves on old 70s valve tops than I now consider reasonable - hence my comment.  The number of gigs where I ended up swearing at the amp was enough to make me appreciate my later days with Trace Elliot (despite the weight).

If I ever get down to one bass I'll give the 'accommodation' suggestion a go, but I'm not holding my breath.

Did you read the bit about what rig I use? I can get perfect Glover/Machinehead tone, Squire tone etc out of that. It’s tiny and weighs nothing. That’s all the accommodation you need. I never even mentioned valve rigs or 8x10s prior to you mentioning them. 

FWIW I’ve had two Marshall Superbass heads that worked perfectly all the time I had them, something I can’t say about a single non-valve head I’ve owned, bar the VTs. 

[martthebass]

3 minutes ago, 4000 said:

Did you read the bit about what rig I use? I can get perfect Glover/Machinehead tone, Squire tone etc out of that. It’s tiny and weighs nothing. That’s all the accommodation you need. I never even mentioned valve rigs or 8x10s prior to you mentioning them. 

FWIW I’ve had two Marshall Superbass heads that worked perfectly all the time I had them, something I can’t say about a single non-valve head I’ve owned, bar the VTs. 

Firstly, no, I didn't read the bit about what rig you were using. Secondly, my comment wasn't a direct 'affront' to your set up....if you've taken it that way it wasn't my intention. Generally I don't consider 'hybrids to be 'proper' valve amps.  Lets just agree our views differ and we both have our own way of achieving musical nirvana. 

[4000]

I never took the bit about valve amps to be an affront to my set up. Why would I? My setup isn’t even hybrid, there are no valves in it whatsoever. Which is why I’m a bit baffled as to where valve amps and 8x10s came in, as to my knowledge nobody suggested them, particularly as the only way to achieve the sound being discussed.

The word used was, IIRC, coloured. GK are coloured. Trace are coloured, as in they’re not neutral-sounding. I can only assume you’re not familiar with The VT500? Worth a look, if you ever want grit,  although as I’ve already mentioned you could simply put a pedal in front of your rig if you wanted that. 

https://www.tech21nyc.com/products/amplifiers/vtbass-500/

And the pedal, although they also do others:
https://www.tech21nyc.com/products/sansamp/vtbass-di/

 

Edited July 1, 2021 by 4000

[martthebass]

5 minutes ago, 4000 said:

I never took the bit about valve amps to be an affront to my set up. Why would I? My setup isn’t even hybrid, there are no valves in it whatsoever. Which is why I’m a bit baffled as to where valve amps and 8x10s came in, as to my knowledge nobody suggested them, particularly as the only way to achieve the sound being discussed.

The word used was, IIRC, coloured. GK are coloured. Trace are coloured, as in they’re not neutral-sounding. I can only assume you’re not familiar with The VT500? Worth a look, if you ever want grit,  although as I’ve already mentioned you could simply put a pedal in front of your rig if you wanted that. 

https://www.tech21nyc.com/products/amplifiers/vtbass-500/

And the pedal, although they also do others:
https://www.tech21nyc.com/products/sansamp/vtbass-di/

 

No, I'm not familiar with the Tech21,  If I ever get back to a sensible level of gigging I'll put it on the list. Sorry regarding your bafflement, as I have already stated the comment I made was not intended as a direct response, my reference to big valve rigs was more an historical call back to the number of times people have previously ' educated me' on the absolute necessity of a Ampeg stack with a Rickenbacker.

Pedal wise I keep it minimal, I rarely need much modification above the MXR DI+ which gets employed for  dirtier requirements - I generally find this isn't needed with the 4003 and MB set up though.

[Killed_by_Death]

1 hour ago, 4000 said:

Can’t say I’ve ever missed not having hum-cancelling though, in 40 years of playing. 

Depends on a few things however, like how much Gain you use & the environment you're in.

it's really noisy with EMI in my humble abode & I play with loads of Gain, this is why Lemmy used humbuckers.

 

[Cosmo Valdemar]

I've decided to go down the route of getting a clean and powerful amp  - not necessarily 'neutral' but something that can serve as a blsnk canvas  - and relying on preamp pedals for colour. 

I've realised that my Tech 21 Leeds and VT pedals give me the tone that makes me happy, and for more modern flavours I use Warwick/Spector and Darkglass. The wonders and ease of modern technology. 

That said, the new GK Legacy heads are very tempting...

[4000]

12 minutes ago, martthebass said:

No, I'm not familiar with the Tech21,  If I ever get back to a sensible level of gigging I'll put it on the list. Sorry regarding your bafflement, as I have already stated the comment I made was not intended as a direct response, my reference to big valve rigs was more an historical call back to the number of times people have previously ' educated me' on the absolute necessity of a Ampeg stack with a Rickenbacker.

Pedal wise I keep it minimal, I rarely need much modification above the MXR DI+ which gets employed for  dirtier requirements - I generally find this isn't needed with the 4003 and MB set up though.

With regards to the big valve rig, yes, I remember playing one of my 4001CS basses through an EBS rig at the Gallery and being utterly underwhelmed. Played through the full Ampeg 8x10 next to it, it did sound rather righteous. 😉 However I then played my Sei through both and it sounded far, far better through the EBS. 

At the end of the day if you’re happy with your tone that’s what matters. my comments re Markbass and other more neutral amps were simply that for the Rick tone I want/expect, they don’t work. That doesn’t mean they can’t work for you; evidently they do. We all have different requirements and expectations with regards to tone.

That said, I know from experience that people often plug into a more neutral rig expecting to sound like Geddy or Chris Squire and are underwhelmed when they don’t. Unfortunately that’s not how it works as those players have a very coloured sound.
 

 

[4000]

19 minutes ago, Killed_by_Death said:

Depends on a few things however, like how much Gain you use & the environment you're in.

it's really noisy with EMI in my humble abode & I play with loads of Gain, this is why Lemmy used humbuckers.

 

Well Lemmy was my main influence originally (and well before he moved onto the Barts/HBs), and I do drift into that territory occasionally, but it’s not really something I’ve had issues with. 

[Killed_by_Death]

 

It's possible to buy a RWRP pickup from Nordstrand, I think they call it the Nordbocker.

It solves the hum-canceling problem.

 

[Killed_by_Death]

 

The 4003 is just something I wouldn't purchase, it's like a Harley, too many mods to make right out of the box.

bridge

pickup configuration

one of those bezels, a lot of people seem to do that

and of course they've stopped manufacturing the superior 4004

 

[Madein1962]

6 hours ago, Skybone said:

 

That said, you can get Rick specific single coils that are RWRP, or work as such when put with a standard Ric pickup, like the Nordenbocker. Gemini Pickups in the UK make their's RWRP, not sure about the Classic Amplification ones though.

The Classic Amplification RIC pickup sets are built RWRP  for hum cancelling, when used together.

I'm not sure that's always been the case but, when I ordered mine, I asked specifically if Brad could make them this way and he replied to say, that's how they're made by default.

I imagine that if you wanted a single pickup rather than a pair, he could build it RWRP to your original pickup, as they're all built to order.

 

[martthebass]

46 minutes ago, Killed_by_Death said:

 

The 4003 is just something I wouldn't purchase, it's like a Harley, too many mods to make right out of the box.

bridge

pickup configuration

one of those bezels, a lot of people seem to do that

and of course they've stopped manufacturing the superior 4004

 

To be honest, the only mod I’ve felt the need to make to mine is adding the bezel and that’s only because I’m primarily a finger style player. The pups sound fine on mine and once I’d set the intonation, neck relief and string height I’ve not needed to touch anything for 8 years.

I can see the limitations in the design but I wouldn’t say things have to be changed any more than you have to change the bbot on a Fender.

[Waddo Soqable]

The only thing I ever did to a Rick was take off the daft PU cover thing, other than that great, if it aint broke don't fix it....

[4000]

2 hours ago, Killed_by_Death said:

 

 

and of course they've stopped manufacturing the 4004

 

Because hardly anybody bought it, including people who complained about all the issues with the 4001/4003. 😉

It used to crack me up when people would say “I’d love a Rick except for the terrible bridge, uncomfortable body binding, stupid pickup surround and cover”. When you pointed out that the 4004 addressed all those “issues”, it was just tumbleweed. 

[Killed_by_Death]

 

I tried a few 4003 when I was actively looking for a 'nice' bass & they left me flat, but then I tried a Walnut 4004 Cheyenne & to this day I'm kicking myself for not buying it right then.

I went home to think about it & when I came back later it was gone daddy gone!

I did own a heavier thicker-neck 1997 4004 Laredo for about a year, but that Walnut Cheyenne had a thinner neck & was lower-Mass

 

[4000]

I think my 4004 was maybe 8.5 lbs or so.

[Killed_by_Death]

 

I was interested in another that was 8 lbs., but the neck was twisted.

Nordstrand Big Singles gave me the sound I was expecting from a RIC

 

[4000]

The earlier clip of Renaissance & Jon Camp that I posted is what I expect from a Ric. 

And this:

And of course this:

For me, it has to have that hollow, singing upper register as well as the clank/crunch. 

[Downunderwonder]

13 hours ago, Jus Lukin said:

Reverse-Wound, Reverse-Polarity. The coils in a humbucker need to be wound in opposite directions and the magnets opposite polarities for the pickup to cancel out hum. If two single coils are RWRP, they will cancel hum when used together. A jazz bass makes use of this, but Ricks don't.

Only works when both pickups are on full. Humbuckers ftw.

[KevB]

To be fair to Roger Glover there are studio shots of him with a Fender on Fireball sessions (not sure if used in recording or not) and modded the PU's on his Ric after a while (eg the Denmark 1972 live gig on DVD). Whilst he did get a fine Ric tone he's probably not the poster boy for that particular bass. Other than the odd song in a set on the occasional tour for nostalgia purposes he hasnt played Rics in anger for years. Squire is pretty much opposite, dabbled with other basses but the Ric remained his bread and butter bass until he passed away.

Edited July 3, 2021 by KevB

[prowla]

Well, back to the question; what you are missing out on is the best production bass money can buy.

All of this baloney about them being difficult to intonate, hard to do palm-muting, and so-on - who cares? Just play the darned thing!

Me, I've had 8 Rics in my life and I've only ever sold one. My second bass (after a Columbus Jazz copy) was a Ric; I've still got it.

I like the quirkiness, but even more I like the sounds and the playability.

As for the replacement parts: I've had Badass II, Hipshot, Kahler whammy, Schaller 3D bridges on Rics and I'll go for the stock unit any day; I may convert my pair of 2010 4003 to the new v3 assembly at some point, just for the heck of it. I don't "get" the Babicz bridge; I did mention that on one forum or FB group and got told I'm not worthy or something.

Pickups-wise, I did have an issue with the single-coil playing the clubs, so I put a Seymour Duncan on one; however, I've now reverted it to the original.

I like the clank of a Ric with roundwounds; I played one a few weeks back with flats on it and it was dead as a dodo (did a great Macca sound though).

[ezbass]

4 hours ago, prowla said:

All of this baloney about them being difficult to intonate, hard to do palm-muting,

I have agree with this. I had no issues at all intonating my 4003s, or palm muting. The bridge is effectively just a tunomatic type affair, perhaps more fiddly than a BBOT or Badass, but not much. The dual truss rods are different, but OK once you understand what’s going on. My Ric was one of those basses that when I heard it I knew I just had to have that tone in my life and it was the nature of the pickups with their differing outputs that gave that final tone. My only gripes were some slapdash finishing details (I’ve had that with other basses too, including custom builds) and the weight of the all maple construction. It was the weight that eventually made me part company with it and if I’d opted for the walnut/maple construction, I might still have it today.

[prowla]

The advantage if the bridge is that it only needs its curvature relative to the fingerboard (ie. the relief) to be set once in its entire lifetime.

[Cairobill]

Rickenbackers are a pain in the derrière, but I love them. I just wish I could find a V63 that a) didn't cost a fortune and b) didn't have a warped neck.

I would ask someone to hit me up if they had an unwarped V63 that met those criteria but a) it's not allowed and b) it probably doesn't exist