Guitars with Provenance.

[toneknob]

I went to see Kate Bush in 2014, one of my favourite gigs of all time. I got curious about one of John Giblin's basses, turns out after some investigation it was a Takamine TB-10.

I ended up buying that very bass (the longer version of the story is elsewhere on basschat)

Do I think I'll sound like John Giblin? Nope. Is it a connection to an incredible memory and subsequent events? More like it. A bit of a collectors item? a little bit.

 

 

[MacDaddy]

Regarding gear that used to belong to someone 'famous', I've always thought if it's no longer good enough for them, it's not good enough for me.

Obviously this would not apply if they were dead.

[tegs07]

4 minutes ago, MacDaddy said:

Regarding gear that used to belong to someone 'famous', I've always thought if it's no longer good enough for them, it's not good enough for me.

Obviously this would not apply if they were dead.

Or been declared bankrupt, gone to rehab, been sponsored by a new maker with exclusivity clauses, got bored, traded up, got divorced, sick etc 

Famous people are just like everyone else.

[Dan Dare]

15 minutes ago, tegs07 said:

Or been declared bankrupt, gone to rehab, been sponsored by a new maker with exclusivity clauses, got bored, traded up, got divorced, sick etc 

Famous people are just like everyone else.

Yep. With a few exceptions, they play instruments that are just like everyone else's, too. I've never understood the nonsense that means a mass produced, factory-built instrument that has passed through the hands of someone famous suddenly acquires mythic status and a grossly inflated price tag. 

No doubt someone will be along shortly to rave about JP's Bass of Doom. Here's the thing. He would have achieved what he did regardless of the instrument he used. It came from him, not the tools he used.

[tegs07]

1 minute ago, Dan Dare said:

Yep. With a few exceptions, they play instruments that are just like everyone else's, too. I've never understood the nonsense that means a mass produced, factory-built instrument that has passed through the hands of someone famous suddenly acquires mythic status and a grossly inflated price tag. 

No doubt someone will be along shortly to rave about JP's Bass of Doom. Here's the thing. He would have achieved what he did regardless of the instrument he used. It came from him, not the tools he used.

I agree to an extent but can see the appeal of why a serious collector or the Hard Rock Cafe etc would pay big bucks for memorabilia. If you have so much cash that your dithering over whether to buy that next bottle of vintage Pomerol, your next super car or Hendrix’s strat why not go for the strat it would look nice in the hall next to the Warhol?

[bartelby]

As I've mentioned before, I owned one of John Entwistle's old touring Trace Elliot MP11. I took it to a shop to be serviced and the shop went bankrupt and I never got it back.
I'm more annoyed at losing the MP11 as opposed to losing a John Entwistle MP11...

[bassbiscuits]

I’ve got a mic that used to belong to Saxon. Makes me sing in a Yorkshire accent tho. 

[Steve Browning]

39 minutes ago, bassbiscuits said:

I’ve got a mic that used to belong to Saxon. Makes me sing in a Yorkshire accent tho. 

Champion!!

[LeftyJ]

17 hours ago, tegs07 said:

Why do people flock to look at the Mona Lisa and walk past many other equally well painted pictures?

Yes, but that's not the point. That's just comparing the products, not the means of production. A better comparison would be if a paintbrush that was held by Da Vinci at some point would be worth more than one that was used by someone who just finished a paint-by-numbers set for the first time. 

I personally wouldn't pay more for an instrument used by someone famous. I'm just a regular bloke making a bit of music in my spare time and having fun with a few mates in a band. I will happily play whatever I can lay my hands on as long as it sounds good and plays nicely. A guitar owned by Jimi Hendrix wouldn't suddenly make me able to play or sound like him, and I likely wouldn't even dare taking it out. 

What always baffles me most are people asking more for a used guitar or bass because it was autographed by someone famous. If anything, to me it just becomes less valuable when someone has scribbled their name on a guitar with a sharpie! I can't stand it. 

[tegs07]

16 minutes ago, LeftyJ said:

Yes, but that's not the point. That's just comparing the products, not the means of production. A better comparison would be if a paintbrush that was held by Da Vinci at some point would be worth more than one that was used by someone who just finished a paint-by-numbers set for the first time. 

I personally wouldn't pay more for an instrument used by someone famous. I'm just a regular bloke making a bit of music in my spare time and having fun with a few mates in a band. I will happily play whatever I can lay my hands on as long as it sounds good and plays nicely. A guitar owned by Jimi Hendrix wouldn't suddenly make me able to play or sound like him, and I likely wouldn't even dare taking it out. 

What always baffles me most are people asking more for a used guitar or bass because it was autographed by someone famous. If anything, to me it just becomes less valuable when someone has scribbled their name on a guitar with a sharpie! I can't stand it. 

A paint brush used by DaVinci would be worth more yes. If it was used to paint a know picture even more so. If DaVinci had a time machine and scribbled on the paint by numbers set it would be worth more than your house.

People collect stuff and have a fascination with fame and history that’s it really.

[Nail Soup]

I probably would get a buzz from owning, say, Dee Dee Ramone's bass.

But it would be for the connection not anything to do with instrument quality. And I wouldn't be willing to pay the required cash for it.

But if someone offered me a choice of two gifts - A Dee Dee Ramone bass, or to choose a high-end bass with equivalent-cash-value. That's because I don't care much about high level gear, but am a big Dee Dee fan

 

 

Edited May 24, 2021 by Nail Soup

[Jus Lukin]

-

Edited March 14, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[tegs07]

9 minutes ago, Nail Soup said:

I probably would get a buzz from owning, say, Dee Dee Ramone's bass.

But it would be for the connection not anything to do with instrument quality. And I wouldn't be willing to pay the required cash for it.

But if someone offered me a choice of two gifts - A Dee Dee Ramone bass, or to choose a high-end bass with equivalent-cash-value. That's because I don't care much about high level gear, but am a big Dee Dee fan

 

 

Or if you were decorating the offices of your corporate HQ and needed various artefacts to impress your clients. Nice investment wrapped up in a tax write off. Not being cynical but I expect that’s how most of this stuff works.

[Nail Soup]

Just now, tegs07 said:

Or if you were decorating the offices of your corporate HQ and needed various artefacts to impress your clients. Nice investment wrapped up in a tax write off. Not being cynical but I expect that’s how most of this stuff works.

Yes you are right..... that’s why as much as I’d get a buzz from owning, I would not chase ownership.

[BigRedX]

I used to own a bass which had provence both as an instrument in itself and from the previous owner (who had it from new).

It was a 5-string fretless Overwater Original previously owned by Mickey Féat, a session player who had worked a lot with Mark Knopfler and Dave Gilmour as well as many others. Although there is no documented evidence to be found there is a good chance if he had played fretless bass on a recording between 1984 and the early 2000s it would have been on this instrument, and there are some fairly high-profile albums that he played on during this period.

However as interesting as all this was, what was more important to me was the fact that this instrument was apparently the first low B 5-string bass that Overwater ever made, completed sometime in late 1983. While there are older examples of 5-string basses with low B-strings from Carl Thompson and Alembic, This bass and the 1985 fretted version that I also owned are the oldest that I have ever had hands-on experience with. Last time this subject came up I did ask if anyone on Basschat had an older 5-string bass and no-one came forward

I also owned this 12-string Hohner electric guitar that may or may not have previously belonged to Captain Sensible:

No mention of it's provenance was mentioned when I bought it, but on doing a Google search for more information about the guitar the ONLY other image of a similar instrument was one from when Captain Sensible was selling off some of his unused guitars. All the other Hohner 12-string guitars with the same model number are completely different to this example - having a black Telecaster shaped body and twin humbuckers.

EDIT: I wasn't aware of any potential provenance of either instrument before I bought them. I only found out about the Overwater because I was already in touch with Chris May trying to find out how old my other bass was and he told me that it was the first they had made and who it had been made for.

Edited May 24, 2021 by BigRedX

[yorks5stringer]

This Bass (now in my hands) was once owned by James Stelfox of Starsailor( pictured). With the best will in the world , don't think it will command a premium if I ever decide to sell it.

[Frank Blank]

I once 'acquired' a snare drum that used to belong to Topper Headon, it had his signature on the underneath head and had plenty of provenance. It was in the corner of my room for about fifteen years. I went to a big old party down in the west country and a really old friend of mine was going who I'd not seen for twenty odd years, he was (is) the drummer in a reasonably well known punk band. I thought I'd take the drum down and give it to him knowing he was a huge Topper fan. Well, on greeting him it turned out he'd become an absolute (insert desired expletive here) over the years and he was rude and unpleasant to everyone, including me. I left the next morning and not wanting to take the snare home as a reminder I chucked it in a skip at a motorway service station.

[binky_bass]

I don't own any instruments with provenance anymore but I did own an Epiphone LP that Frampton played, I didn't really care and that added zero monetary value to it... I have a lot of signed things from having smuggled myself backstage many-a-time when I was a yoof if that falls into the general ball park of this topic! I did also own Jean Baudin's PacMan bass for a while, but that only counts if you're an absolute ERB geek! 🤓

Edited May 24, 2021 by binky_bass

[MacDaddy]

39 minutes ago, binky_bass said:

I don't own any instruments with provenance anymore but I did own an Epiphone LP that Frampton played, I didn't really care and that added zero monetary value to it... I have a lot of signed things from having smuggled myself backstage many-a-time when I was a yoof if that falls into the general ball park of this topic! I did also own Jean Baudin's PacMan bass for a while, but that only counts if you're an absolute ERB geek! 🤓

Funnily enough I owned an LP Frampton played on.

Mind you, so did several million others! 

[cetera]

I once owned a 3 pickup black Gibson Les Paul Custom that was owned, played and toured by Ace Frehley of KISS in 1979/1980. It was signed on the back and came in its original case that was signed too. I LOVED owning it as it had scorched pick up rings on it (taken from his smoking guitar) and many pics of him using it 'live'. I felt a link to a special place/time in rock history and was honoured to own it. Of course, a huge offer from a big collector made moving it on a no-brainer, but I'm glad I got to enjoy it for a while and fell privileged to have done so.

I currently own a one-off custom red firecrackle' Kramer Spector NS2' that formerly belonged to Barry Dunaway of Yngwie Malmsteen's band and was used live on Yngwie's 1989 'Trial By Fire' tour and subsequent 'Live in Leningrad' CD/DVD. I had been at the London Astoria concert of the Trial By Fire tour and had been blown away by the looks and sound of the bass but I NEVER dreamt that I would own it! When I saw it come up for sale at a US guitar shop some 20 years later at a reasonable price I felt that it was fate that I should have it. Having got to now Barry in recent years I have discovered that he hugely regrets moving it on for cashflow reasons in the years after Malmsteen.... and should I ever need to sell it he would like 1st dibs.

Oh, and just remembered, I also own a black Kramer Spector NS2A that was owned/heavily toured by Mark Plunkett with the band Little Angels in the late 80's/early 90's. I bought it directly from him many years ago....

Edited May 25, 2021 by cetera
Incorrect number of pickups on Ace guitar! lol!

[bassbiscuits]

1 hour ago, cetera said:

 

I once owned a 2 pickup black Gibson Les Paul Custom that was owned, played and toured by Ace Frehley of KISS in 1979/1980

 

Ah mate..... that is awesome

[Dad3353]

9 hours ago, binky_bass said:

... laid a hand on a few exhibits (yes, yes I know you technically shouldn't!) and it does provide a certain sensation/stimulus over just looking at it. I suppose it makes it 'real' and you can add to the experience of seeing it though having physically made contact with it. 

 

8 hours ago, toneknob said:

I went to see Kate Bush in 2014...

The reading of these two posts, in quick succession, gave me a start. Luckily, I read on, and all was revealed, but still... 

[Dad3353]

4 hours ago, Frank Blank said:

I once 'acquired' a snare drum that used to belong to Topper Headon, it had his signature on the underneath head and had plenty of provenance. It was in the corner of my room for about fifteen years. I went to a big old party down in the west country and a really old friend of mine was going who I'd not seen for twenty odd years, he was (is) the drummer in a reasonably well known punk band. I thought I'd take the drum down and give it to him knowing he was a huge Topper fan. Well, on greeting him it turned out he'd become an absolute (insert desired expletive here) over the years and he was rude and unpleasant to everyone, including me. I left the next morning and not wanting to take the snare home as a reminder I chucked it in a skip at a motorway service station.

Heresy..!

...

...

Edited May 24, 2021 by Dad3353

[binky_bass]

1 hour ago, Dad3353 said:

 

The reading of these two posts, in quick succession, gave me a start. Luckily, I read on, and all was revealed, but still... 

What you think happened... Well, it happened. Me and The Bush (I call her The Bush) go way back. 

[jay-syncro]

I've got a bass that Fender made for Pino as a prototype signature model. It's a great instrument in its own right but the fact it was commissioned and played by one of the greats makes it all that much more special IMO. It's my prized possession. 

Doesn't stop me buying more basses though, clearly. 😬