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Recent Mesa update

dmccombe7

By dmccombe7,
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Steve Browning Grand Master

Steve Browning

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Posted
28 minutes ago, Supernaut said:

Brexit strikes again! 😂

To be fair, this is more pandemic related with factories not producing and (just as important) lots of shipping containers in completely the wrong place. The supply of components outside the EU is unaffected by Brexit itself.

The lack of shipping containers has multiplied the cost of them at least seven-fold.

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Supernaut Veteran

Supernaut

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1 hour ago, Steve Browning said:

To be fair, this is more pandemic related with factories not producing and (just as important) lots of shipping containers in completely the wrong place. The supply of components outside the EU is unaffected by Brexit itself.

The lack of shipping containers has multiplied the cost of them at least seven-fold.

It was a joke but I can see why people are sore over the subject... 

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three Veteran

three

Posted
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I'm just re-posting here - I had this in another TT-800 thread but more appropriate in this one (apologies that I missed it dcmcombe7).  I'm not really adding much to the comments above - Andertons and agedhorse brilliant, with some great inputs from BC members too - but my faith in Mesa is diminished and I'm out

...An update on the TT-800 situation and not great news for anybody that would wish to have one in the UK.  I was signed-up for the next batch of the TT-800s due at the end of June.  It was a speculative order as I'm not really sure that the TT-800 will do what I'd wish from it - great reviews on here and elsewhere but the more I've seen and listened, the less convinced I've become that it's the lighter weight solution that will suit my preferences.  Anyway, I digress.  I've had regular updates from Andertons re: progress with getting Mesa gear into the UK - indeed, Andertons have been superb, as has Andy (agedhorse) - very creditable and friendly advice/service all round.

I received a message last night in which Andertons explain that Mesa deliveries to the UK are unlikely to appear before the end of the year and more likely, orders will enter the UK early next year (on most of the range including the TT-800).  The reasons given are (a) Mesa has chosen to concentrate on fulfilling orders from US dealers, and (b) delays are exacerbated as a result of ongoing and critical shortages of parts.  I've no reason to doubt either of these explanations.  I suspect too that the recent Gibson takeover has a role in all of this.  Andertons express some dismay at the treatment of non-domestic dealers and I can fully understand and sympathise - the treatment of non-domestic players appears to be woeful too.  Anyway, I'm out - a combination of misgivings re: suitability and a bit of a flounce related to Mesa's attitude to non US players.  I'm off for another weetabix and it's back to the DB750/Hellborg pre combo that I'd hoped the TT-800 might rival/emulate.  Sorry that this is probably very bad news for a number of Basschatters waiting patiently for the arrival of Mesa back orders  

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dmccombe7 Grand Master

dmccombe7

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Yes the bass amps are multi-voltage but Mesa are not prepared to send an occasional bass amp outside the US because of transport costs.

Guitar amps have different voltages and its the transformers and supply components that is causing the delay with them. Cabs have issues too with getting the correct wood.

I've no idea how many people outside the US are waiting for a bass amp but i'm pretty sure its not just myself and @three above.

I can understand others now cancelling their Mesa bass amp orders.

Dave

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BoomTing Contributor

BoomTing

Posted
Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Aidan63 said:

ebay seller LINKY in states with stock....

they appear like a lot of recent stuff to accept  input voltage of 100V-250V without any specific differences, no voltage selection, nor different fusing

Be careful You get no warranty (if it goes wrong You are Screwed) & by the time You add Tax n Duty works out expensive. I got stung on a new Eden (That went wrong!!)

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thodrik Mentor

thodrik

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This is a real shame. Particularly considering Mesa had left their previous distributor and it appeared that prices for Mesa gear were going to be considerably more affordable. Alas, while it appears that the the gear is going to be more affordable it appears that the gear is not being made for anyone outside of the US for the foreseeable future.

I'm conscious that there are supply problems, however there are several other US manufacturers who are still exporting products and Mesa are presently the only company I am aware of who are deciding to simply not fulfil any international orders whatsoever. However, the position taken isn't actually as bad as the complete lack of communication to Andertons until such time that Andertons had probably secured a whole host of orders worth presumably tens of thousands of pounds going back the previous 6-7 months since the new distribution model was launched (amid a certain degree of fanfare). It appears that there has been a complete lack of transparency to international dealers like Andertons. 

I'm conscious that we are still in the process of coming out of a massive global pandemic with shortages to all manner of materials (I struggled to find concrete and sand to build a patio!) but the approach by Mesa is particularly poor.  I am sure that Mesa have underlying reasons and that the parts shortages issue is a real issue, but the way in which the reasons were communicated (or rather not communicated) is disappointing and frankly, a bit Gibson-esque. 

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jezzaboy Grand Master

jezzaboy

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Hey Dave, the plot thickens!!

I watch Phil McKnight on YT and he mentioned that he tried to order a Mesa guitar amp from 2 separate mom and pop stores in the US. He was told that they were no longer Mesa dealers as they were told that they would have to start stocking Gibson guitars to keep the MB products. 

They refused and lost the products. However, he managed to buy one from Sweetwater as they sell Gibson guitars and so can stock Mesa. This is something similar that Gibson did when they binned a lot of small dealers in the UK a few years back.

When they bought Mesa, Gibson said that they wouldn`t interfere with the running of Mesa. :scratch_one-s_head:

So not only are they shafting the UK dealers, they are doing it to some US dealers as well.

Edited by jezzaboy
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dmccombe7 Grand Master

dmccombe7

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1 hour ago, jezzaboy said:

Hey Dave, the plot thickens!!

I watch Phil McKnight on YT and he mentioned that he tried to order a Mesa guitar amp from 2 separate mom and pop stores in the US. He was told that they were no longer Mesa dealers as they were told that they would have to start stocking Gibson guitars to keep the MB products. 

They refused and lost the products. However, he managed to buy one from Sweetwater as they sell Gibson guitars and so can stock Mesa. This is something similar that Gibson did when they binned a lot of small dealers in the UK a few years back.

When they bought Mesa, Gibson said that they wouldn`t interfere with the running of Mesa. :scratch_one-s_head:

So not only are they shafting the UK dealers, they are doing it to some US dealers as well.

Few people have mentioned it could be down to Gibson but Andertons stock Gibson anyways. The guitar amps are an issue because of the power supply parts being hard to get from EU. @agedhorse explained a lot of this to me on TB and why they've gone the route they have. Kinda made sense but disappointing from a personal point of view. Still got my old Mesa Mpulse to use with new cabs and it sounds fantastic with them at last rehearsal in Berkeley 2 couple was back.

Dave

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agedhorse Mentor

agedhorse

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On 26/05/2021 at 02:46, Steve Browning said:

To be fair, this is more pandemic related with factories not producing and (just as important) lots of shipping containers in completely the wrong place. The supply of components outside the EU is unaffected by Brexit itself.

The lack of shipping containers has multiplied the cost of them at least seven-fold.

Yes, this is absolutely part of it.

I did explain this to Dave over on TalkBass but I think it might be good to include the same information here.

1. It has nothing to do with Gibson period. The decision was made everybody involved because we are having great difficulty getting parts in sufficient quantities to fill the large number of orders we already have. Not just orders outside North America but also within North America. It makes no sense to try to ship a couple of amps at a time overseas, that's how products get lost and damaged. Especially tube amps.

2. Why are we having challenges with parts? It's not just us, it's the entire manufacturing world that is experiencing these shortages. Raw materials are delayed getting to our suppliers, our suppliers are delayed in their own manufacturing and some of our component manufacturers are experiencing delays from their suppliers. It's not our fault, it's not our supplier's fault, it's a global problem and no matter how much we wish it wasn't so, throwing money at it makes no difference when the parts simply do not exist.

3. In our case, we don't use a lot of generic parts. Many of our parts (like transformers, PCBs, pots, switches, sheet metal, speaker components, enclosures) are custom parts and have longer lead times than generic parts. These have been delayed by our suppliers, and not just suppliers from any one region but suppliers from France, Italy, Spain, Taiwan, Hong Kong, the UK, Germany, China, the US and Canada (I'm sure I'm missing some, but you get the point). This is mostly related to COVID, but because there are many steps in the manufacturing process, each step's delay adds to the total delay.

4. Then there's shipping delays... never have I seen the delays throughout the shipping world. Of course there's the shortage of containers, this was expected, BUT what was not expected was the ship getting stuck in the Suez Canal. It's not the week or two of direct delays, but the resulting suspension of operations at the ports because the ships they were waiting to unload and reload were all sitting out at sea waiting for passage. All those ships loaded with hundreds of thousands of containers that should have been unloaded and ready for their new loads. Combine this with the number of cancelled sailings (where a ship scheduled to depart is cancelled and waits for the next scheduled cycle. If you had containers scheduled for that ship, you were struggling to find alternative passage but often the logistics and global paperwork make it impractical. Containers with perishable goods, as well as livestock have priority, that's how the maritime laws are (and it makes sense). Then, the port delays, the inland shipping, the transfer companies, the rail companies, EVERYBODY is delayed. Oh, and the costs are out of sight too. This has not improved in the last 3 months, and may actually be worse.

5. We had our own factory delays, almost all of last year we had to operate in specialized "safe work cells" with all the necessary isolation and PPE gear. Because of the county we are located in, there were many weeks where we couldn't run ANY production due to stay at home orders. This applied to many of our suppliers too, and not just here, but much of Italy has been locked down pretty hard. Italy and the US are where many of our speakers come from, and THEIR suppliers were also locked down. Some of our suppliers simply didn't survive, we had to use back-up vendors and test sample parts in order to re-qualify the parts (especially where they are part of a safety agency approved assembly)... oh, and the safety certification agencies were also impacted, so there were delays in certifying the new parts so that the entire assembly could be re-certified. This impacts the EU specifically because of the change in EU market standards for legacy products (that do not apply to North America). 

It's a lot more complicated than "we just didn't want to ship outside of the US".  The decision was more of what is practical, and promising something that we have almost no control over doesn't help the situation either. Nobody is happy about this, everybody shares your frustration and disappointment (including me) and we are all very, very sorry. When I know more, I will communicate it with you.

Fortunately, there are a lot of good choices in bass gear these days, and if a manufacturer more local to you has stock, it may make better sense to move on for now and maybe revisit this at a later time. 

Hope this helps.

Edited by agedhorse
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dmccombe7 Grand Master

dmccombe7

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Definitely a lot more detail in this explanation @agedhorse and some i wasn't aware of like the shipping around the globe problem. Some guys on TB touched on it and that was something i had not even considered as i assumed most items went by plane. Also the reason for not shipping individual items was a surprise but i see your point with items going missing etc.

Your explanation here covers more detail and it is appreciated.

With regards my own order i have been assured that price will be what i've already paid with no increase to me and for me it will be worth the wait as i spent a long time looking at the various kit to get what i believed was right for me. I've tried other manufacturers but have never come across the tone i get from the Mesa gear, its that simple for me. I have a great Mpulse 600 that will see me thru until the TT800 arrives.

I appreciate others on BC have cancelled their orders as waiting doesn't suit them.

Yes i was angry on the day i found out but that has turned more to disappointment and frustration than anything else.

On the positive it lets me get some use with the Mpulse and SW 210 & 115 cabs. So far its a great pairing.

Dave

Edited by dmccombe7
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agedhorse Mentor

agedhorse

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To follow up, shipping amps and cabinets by plane can be done but the cost (including handling and processing fees) can be outrageous. My experience shipping a TT by air these days (I just had shipped a box almost the same size, weight and distance) is around $400 USD and VAT would apply to that amount, making it $500. Also, there are some restrictions on shipping speakers due to the magnetic fields generated by the motor assembly. Shipping a Subway 115 would run about $500 plus VAT.

The same costs are affecting parts that sometimes must be shipped by air because the cost of delay is even higher than the cost of shipping (which was the case for the shipment I experienced). 

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dmccombe7 Grand Master

dmccombe7

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I've tried Ashdown and not for me. 

Barefaced not tried but they were an option but having owned Mesa last couple of yrs I know the quality and have a better feel for the cabs. Again I'm not able to try barefaced and too much money to fork out for a company that I personally have never experienced.

I guess I'm just a Mesa convert and fan.

Dave

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dmccombe7 Grand Master

dmccombe7

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This is my first experience of any problems with anything but from what i'm being told by several people its a lot worse than many believe.

Hopefully things will get back to normal sooner rather than later.

Dave

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agedhorse Mentor

agedhorse

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3 hours ago, Sonic_Groove said:

Yeah feel for You Dave. I'm just pished off with the whole situation.

The same is happening with Bikes & Cars too.

I have a friend in the automotive industry and they are in the middle of a massive struggle for everything. Finished parts of all kinds, sub-assemblies, wiring harnesses, and many things electronics (micro-processor, micro-controller, memory, certain types of capacitors, semiconductors, PCBs). Some of these semiconductors are also used in the audio market (including some amps, home audio, flat screen TV's, phones, cameras and throughout the auto infotainment worlds), and one plant that was responsible for a variety of ASIC parts suffered a devastating fire a few months back as well.

Really, this is SO much bigger than the guitar/bass amp industry... in fact most larger companies in the above industries consume more semiconductors in one week than our entire industry consumes in 1 year. 

https://www.autoweek.com/news/industry-news/a36211012/chip-shortage-continues/

https://www.mau.com/workforce-insights/the-2021-semiconductor-chip-shortage-what-why-and-whats-next

https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/production-expert-1/2020/10/29/akm-factory-fire-could-affect-supply-of-a-to-d-and-d-to-a-convertors-for-12-months

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binky_bass Grand Master

binky_bass

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17 hours ago, agedhorse said:

I have a friend in the automotive industry and they are in the middle of a massive struggle for everything. Finished parts of all kinds, sub-assemblies, wiring harnesses, and many things electronics (micro-processor, micro-controller, memory, certain types of capacitors, semiconductors, PCBs). Some of these semiconductors are also used in the audio market (including some amps, home audio, flat screen TV's, phones, cameras and throughout the auto infotainment worlds), and one plant that was responsible for a variety of ASIC parts suffered a devastating fire a few months back as well.

Really, this is SO much bigger than the guitar/bass amp industry... in fact most larger companies in the above industries consume more semiconductors in one week than our entire industry consumes in 1 year. 

https://www.autoweek.com/news/industry-news/a36211012/chip-shortage-continues/

https://www.mau.com/workforce-insights/the-2021-semiconductor-chip-shortage-what-why-and-whats-next

https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/production-expert-1/2020/10/29/akm-factory-fire-could-affect-supply-of-a-to-d-and-d-to-a-convertors-for-12-months

I work in the auto industry and I can absolutely confirm the global shortage of semiconductors has caused huge disruptions in manufacturing and shipping. It's essentially because everyone bought new laptops, tablets, phones, games consoles, etc. during lockdown, all of which require semiconductors, the supply of these little and essential chips hasn't recovered which is why every industry that uses semiconductors are currently facing issues. 

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