Sight reading vs Playing by Ear?

[All thumbs]

It's an age old question that causes fuses to blow at each end of the spectrum, but in reality is the answer really black and white?

Be sure to watch the video to the end - I'd love to know your own experience and how it related to what I talk about in the video...

 

[paul_5]

I can do both, but I find that I remember things better when I work them out by ear - I suppose subconsciously I don’t think I need to remember it if it’s written down somewhere!

[All thumbs]

22 minutes ago, paul_5 said:

I can do both, but I find that I remember things better when I work them out by ear - I suppose subconsciously I don’t think I need to remember it if it’s written down somewhere!

That makes sense, Paul.

[Reggaebass]

Great video Scott , that’s pretty much what I do, I don’t sight read I just break it down bit by bit until it’s memorised, I’ve been following you for years, I’m glad you’re here again, keep up the great work 👍

[itu]

There are songs I remember by heart, but if I am asked to play a song, I have no idea of the key, or the beginning. I downright love my tablet with thousands of songs. I do read, and that has helped a lot.

[Waddo Soqable]

I too just work things out bit by bit and stick it all together, as mentioned above it probably makes sense that you'd remember something better if you'd spent a bit of time sussing it out ( it's always amazed me i could remember a whole bunch of songs at all, my memory for anything else is terrible)

I couldn't read the dots now to save my life, the last time I did that would've been playing wind instruments as a youngster, I guess it depends what you do, and what you need to know... I'm afraid to say I couldn't waste the time these days getting to grips with notation !

 

[zbd1960]

My primary instrument is cello, but my primary skill is as a choral singer singing the bass/baritone line. Because of the instruments I play, I read all four standard clefs (bass tenor alto, treble) and you need three of those to play cello (bass, tenor, and treble). 

Sight-reading comes with practice. My singing teacher would just shove something in front of me and say 'sing this'... Later in my early 50s starting on cello, I immediately joined a community orchestra and got thrown in the deep end. Over time your ability to play improves and the complexity of what you can play at sight increases. Sure, you can't play everything and you have to do things like reduce a mountain of semi-quavers to quavers, or perhaps even just crotchets, but over time you improve.

With the exception of some jazz, all the groups I play in on cello and sax involve playing music that's part of a large score / arrangement. Improvising on that is not an option and you would not be expected to play it from memory. Obviously, if you are playing a solo then there is an option to learn that from memory.

I find playing from memory - because it's something I've rarely done - extremely difficult. I've been doing it for some of the stuff I do on sax and in my bass lessons, but I find it extremely difficult to do and I struggle to remember something even half an hour later. Is that something that can be improved? Yes, bu tI find reading music much easier.

When you're an experienced 'reader', it's like reading a book - you're not reading the individual letters (or notes), you see the shape and respond to it.

Which skill-set is important to you depends to some extent on the genre you're performing and the nature of the group you are performing with. If you're in a covers or a jazz band playing a core repertoire then learning all of that from memory and improvising it is feasible. If I'm playing in an orchestra or singing in a choir and we've got a handful of rehearsals then a concert to perform two hours' worth of music that you might never see ever again (or not for some years anyway) then you need to be able to read.     

 

    

[All thumbs]

 

8 hours ago, Reggaebass said:

Great video Scott , that’s pretty much what I do, I don’t sight read I just break it down bit by bit until it’s memorised, I’ve been following you for years, I’m glad you’re here again, keep up the great work 👍

Many thanks, Reggaebass!  That's pretty much what I do...

2 hours ago, itu said:

There are songs I remember by heart, but if I am asked to play a song, I have no idea of the key, or the beginning. I downright love my tablet with thousands of songs. I do read, and that has helped a lot.

Yes - that's where reading is a Godsend!  I tend to make short hand notes (that look hilarious to anyone else lol) for intro/ending reminders etc.  I read 'enough' but never could get my sight reading chops up to speed but it would be incredibly useful at times.

1 hour ago, Waddo Soqable said:

I too just work things out bit by bit and stick it all together, as mentioned above it probably makes sense that you'd remember something better if you'd spent a bit of time sussing it out ( it's always amazed me i could remember a whole bunch of songs at all, my memory for anything else is terrible)

I couldn't read the dots now to save my life, the last time I did that would've been playing wind instruments as a youngster, I guess it depends what you do, and what you need to know... I'm afraid to say I couldn't waste the time these days getting to grips with notation !

 

You're definitely right about about memorising stuff more easily if you work it out yourself!  I 'm funny in that if someone is 'showing' me a song, I prefer them NOT to tell me the chords/notes - I'd rather hear them and work it out.  That way I learn the movement of the changes etc. rather than 'painting by numbers'.

[All thumbs]

3 minutes ago, zbd1960 said:

Which skill-set is important to you depends to some extent on the genre you're performing and the nature of the group you are performing with. If you're in a covers or a jazz band playing a core repertoire then learning all of that from memory and improvising it is feasible. If I'm playing in an orchestra or singing in a choir and we've got a handful of rehearsals then a concert to perform two hours' worth of music that you might never see ever again (or not for some years anyway) then you need to be able to read.     

This is a great point!  Not being a great reader (which I'm not) definitely cuts off certain streams of work as you say.  It's definitely horses for courses - there's a trade-off one way or the other.

[paul_c2]

It is basically impossible to expect sax/trumpet/trombone players to listen to a big band piece and work out their particular part which resides in the middle (pitch) of a bunch of other instruments. They would need to know what everyone else is playing (or going to play). Bass has the advantage its at the bottom.

Also, it would take a horrendous amount of time.

Also, how on earth do you run a rehearsal and start from somewhere other than the start of the piece, if you haven't got at least something of the structure written down so that they all agree where a bit is. (Singers have a tough time at this, unless they read too).

[FinnDave]

35 minutes ago, paul_c2 said:

Also, how on earth do you run a rehearsal and start from somewhere other than the start of the piece, if you haven't got at least something of the structure written down so that they all agree where a bit is. (Singers have a tough time at this, unless they read too).

Bands I've been in get around this fairly simply by 'start from the last line of the first verse and into the chorus' type of instructions. 

Asking them to start from bar 38 is going to produce a lot of blank looks in most bands I've been involved with.

[paul_c2]

2 minutes ago, FinnDave said:

Bands I've been in get around this fairly simply by 'start from the last line of the first verse and into the chorus' type of instructions. 

Asking them to start from bar 38 is going to produce a lot of blank looks in most bands I've been involved with.

That would naturally only apply to songs which have a verse and chorus structure.......

[FinnDave]

1 minute ago, paul_c2 said:

That would naturally only apply to songs which have a verse and chorus structure.......

There options are available - such as 'just before the mad jam in Eb starts'.

[paul_c2]

I know, I was only teasing.

[FinnDave]

Just now, paul_c2 said:

I know, I was only teasing.

That's a relief, I was thinking we might have been breaking some international musicians agreement!

[paul_c2]

6 minutes ago, FinnDave said:

There options are available - such as 'just before the mad jam in Eb starts'.

Best of luck explaining what Eb is to an alto sax player, a tenor sax player and a trombone player all at the same time! That's about 10 minutes of valuable rehearsal time you'll never get back!!!

[Waddo Soqable]

As Scott says, It's horses for courses isn't it.... naturally orchestral type players need to read from a sheet 100%..and big band types I'd include in the above orchestra category....I've played big band arrangement parts as a youngster on saxophone, and of course you couldn't really "wing" that ..though some of the old american "famous" name jazz guys did just that in big bands! ( they probably knew the material inside out already from constant repetition tho )  

What we're mainly talking about here however,  is bass guitar, be it rock, reggae, funk, whatever,  in smaller bands playing their own stuff, or covers, they've rehearsed... I've never needed to read music playing bass in bands in that context, and neither has anyone else i know or played with to the best of my knowledge  ( session and theatre guys obviously have their own requirements and I'd kind of lump them in with the orchestral bunch !). Of course all knowledge is good, but,  I'd say it's all about what you NEED ( or don't need)  in your own sphere...

 

[Waddo Soqable]

2 minutes ago, paul_c2 said:

Best of luck explaining what Eb is to an alto sax player, a tenor sax player and a trombone player all at the same time! That's about 10 minutes of valuable rehearsal time you'll never get back!!!

As an ex sax player I think you'll find they're quite well aware that their horns are transposing instruments, in Eb or Bb  and will be able to "convert" from "concert pitch" or have a cheat sheet in their case ! 

[paul_c2]

4 minutes ago, Waddo Soqable said:

As an ex sax player I think you'll find they're quite well aware that their horns are transposing instruments, in Eb or Bb  and will be able to "convert" from "concert pitch" or have a cheat sheet in their case ! 

Been there!

[zbd1960]

3 hours ago, paul_c2 said:

Best of luck explaining what Eb is to an alto sax player, a tenor sax player and a trombone player all at the same time! That's about 10 minutes of valuable rehearsal time you'll never get back!!!

The joy of transposing instruments - I play both Bb ad Eb saxes... Sometimes, baritone sax only has a bass part to read from, in which case they have to read it as if it was treble clef instead of bass and add three sharps to the key signature... Makes accidentals entertaining

[Bilbo]

You don't have to choose. Do you think Marcus Miller can't jam? Can't improvise? Steve Vai? Steve Morse? Anthony Jackson? Paul Chambers? Jeff Berlin? Jaco Pastorius? 

Transcribing directly onto the bass is not transcribing. Transcribing is writing down.

 

I am not attacking the basic premise of your video but I think there are as many pitfalls in learning by ear as there are in reading. The first is memory capacity. I have learned thousands of tunes and solos and licks over the years. Can I remember them all? Can I f*** 🤣. I find reading enhances my capacities to perform immeasurably and I don't recognise the negative image of the disciplines presented here. It makes learning so much quicker once you have a handle on it. It's not all about reading on a gig.

 

I do regular Jazz gigs with visiting artists and often the charts are chord charts but with odd passages written in. You never get to see them in advance. Being able to pick things up by ear gets you so far but, if you aren't match fit reading-wise, it can go t*ts up very quickly. This was one chart I got put in front of me. The whole thing works perfectly easily as a chord chart until 4:21 - then your ears aren't going to help.

 

 

 

Edited May 28, 2021 by Bilbo

[Doddy]

I often hear the point of "I've never done a gig/ I've only done a handful of reading gigs ever", and that is totally cool. But, a big part of that is that if you don't put yourself out as a reader you won't get calls to do gigs that require it, and there are a lot more reading gigs than those mentioned in the video.

I also don't agree with the insinuation that readers can only read and can't come up with lines. In fact, I'd go the opposite way and say that all the best improvisers who I know either personally or via fame and reputation, are generally solid readers too.

[Huge Hands]

There is also the case for doing both.  I remember sitting with an MD a good few years ago who looked after several cabaret bands - watching one of them rehearse.  He was saying "Listen to that bloody drummer".  I told him I couldn't hear anything wrong.  He replied - "He's playing it exactly as it is written - boring!  He should be going boom boom da cack cack da boom!  Putting his own thing on it".

I've always remembered that and with the concert band I now play in - if we're playing a classical piece - I will try and do my best to play it note for note as written.  However, if it is a cheesy cover of pop songs from the last 50 or so years, I will use my ear and experience to add grace notes or runs to make it sound more like the original or a bit more funky, or whatever.  This is of course being careful that you're not clashing with the Tuba or other instruments that are following the script. 

That's my story anyway.  I'm not the strongest reader so sometimes I play what I think it right because I couldn't read it fast enough  😆

[Bilbo]

Big band bass charts can be notorioulsy lame; R357, R357, R357 and so on. It can sound terrible so you draw upon you own knowledge and experience to add layers of interest.

[Waddo Soqable]

2 hours ago, Bilbo said:

Big band bass charts can be notorioulsy lame; R357, R357, R357 and so on. It can sound terrible so you draw upon you own knowledge and experience to add layers of interest.

I bet no one's even  listening to the bass when you gots all those horn sections banging away. !