Advice needed for amp and cab size and gigs

[Downunderwonder]

2 hours ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

Power is determined by voltage and current, P= V x I. Neither power nor current define how loud a speaker will go. Current, and therefore power, is determined by the load impedance, and the load impedance of a speaker isn't constant, it varies with frequency. With the exact same decibel level you can be running 100 watts into the speaker at one frequency and 5 watts at another frequency. The reason why they're at the same level is because voltage determines level, and voltage doesn't vary with the impedance load. We really should never be talking about watts, always about volts, but that bridge was crossed and then burned almost 100 years ago, so there's no going back now.

True. But the reason for the misstep is knowing amp power specs and cab impedance and power handling one can intuit a little easier than working in volt amperes.

[Chienmortbb]

On 29/05/2021 at 19:58, Downunderwonder said:

True. But the reason for the misstep is knowing amp power specs and cab impedance and power handling one can intuit a little easier than working in volt amperes.

Also true. I was going to go into a diatribe about why Voltage vs Watts  but the OP probably deserves some pece and I will do it in another therad.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

On 29/05/2021 at 14:58, Downunderwonder said:

True. But the reason for the misstep is knowing amp power specs and cab impedance and power handling one can intuit a little easier than working in volt amperes.

From the consumer's standpoint, and from a marketing standpoint, true. It's like touting horsepower in a car, even though torque is far more important. From an engineering standpoint failure to understand and apply these concepts in the design stage often leads to failure of the product. I believe this is at the root of the problems Ampeg had with new products some years back.

[Kazan]

Given the Elf head and matching TE 1x10 is the starting point, I'd go for adding another cab over putting more power through the existing cab. While the TE 1x10 is rated 300w I have heard of some blowing when driven with more power (as opposed to the TE 2x8 which does well driven by more by all accounts)

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

That brings up another point. The speaker power rating is thermal. The mechanical rating could be far lower, as much as 60% lower being not unusual. Speakers with a mechanical rating even approaching the thermal rating are rare and expensive.

[Kazan]

On 28/05/2021 at 09:49, Brightside said:

Thanks for the advice everyone.

I went into the local music shop and tried out a fender rumble 200 since they didn't have the 500 available to demo. Sounds nice so that's definitely an option.

I also took away a GK MB500 to try with my elf 1x10 cab at home. The sound was nice, probably preferable to the elf, but it had big distortion issues on the low b string with my cab which isn't present with the elf. I take it this is more of a cab issue than an amp issue? Would this be rectified with adding another 1x10? 

 

3 minutes ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

That brings up another point. The speaker power rating is thermal. The mechanical rating could be far lower, as much as 60% lower being not unusual. Speakers with a mechanical rating even approaching the thermal rating are rare and expensive.

 

An interesting consideration is that the voicing on the TE 1x10 is focused on the low mids and seems to cut off the subharmonic lows to achieve higher perceived volume. A Peavey/TE rep commented on the head itself "Someone was asking about a HPF ...there is a filter in the ELF primarily designed to keep the infrasonic frequencies out of the speaker...but shouldn't be audibly noticeable" - so, if the cab is designed to go with a head which essentially has a built in high pass filter, it would not be surprising that it might not match well with other amps without this (particularly if higher powered).

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

 Most amps have de-facto high pass filtering, even if it's not via a separate high pass filter per se. Most electric bass speakers don't go really deep, a necessary trade off to realize high sensitivity. Precise mating of amps and speakers to the exclusion of other brands would be counter-productive, as most users tend to buy one or the other, to use with an amp or speaker they already have.

[Kazan]

Sure. And, yet, this is not the first time I've heard what OP mentioned about this specific cab - problems with the B string when using other heads (as well as actually blowing ). This was why I chose a pair of the TE 2x8 instead even though my first leaning was to the 1x10s as they are smaller and lighter.

[Brightside]

Well I ended up selling the elf and cab and got a fender rumble 500. Will do me better in the longer term. Worked out around the same cost as just getting another cab, and I'm not sure the elf would've cut it long term, or the cabs be any good with more powerful heads. 

Thanks for the advice.

Edited June 2, 2021 by Brightside