tegs07 Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 1 minute ago, Geek99 said: Yes, okay… 99% perfect. but if you CS order a passive custom shop instrument and then immediately add a pre amp, something is wrong Possibly but I suspect some people would want to rip the guts out of a 50’s P as it wasn’t hot enough for their tastes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geek99 Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 (edited) True, and I agree but it doesn’t mean that CS was ever right for them. If you pick up a CS and it doesn’t feel fabulous and play nicely then you wasted money on it. (However it sounds to your tastes) The doors on a bmw close differently than the ones on my Peugeot 108 - for the money asked a CS should be like the BMW - there shouldn’t be any qc niggles Edited June 12, 2021 by Geek99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skej21 Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Geek99 said: True, and I agree but it doesn’t mean that CS was ever right for them. If you pick up a CS and it doesn’t feel fabulous and play nicely then you wasted money on it. The doors on a bmw close differently than the ones on my Peugeot 108 - for the money asked a CS should be like the BMW Hmmmm I think that just shows the difference in expectations! For me, it’s not about money. What I expect from a Fender CS comes from a knowledge of what it is they’re trying to sell. In your analogy, it’s like someone buying a 1978 BMW expecting power steering “for that kind of money”, or more accurately, if BMW manufactured a 2021 historic recreation of a model from 1978 which they charged a premium for (because they had to use old/rare expertise and manufacturing techniques/materials to be as close to the original as possible), and then someone buying it and saying “well for that kind of money, it should at least have power steering and electric windows, because I’d get that on a 2021 Dacia. I can’t believe I’m going to have to fork out extra money on top to install electric windows and power steering” The answer really is pretty simple. If you know what you want, find an instrument that does that thing and THEN look at the name/price 🙂 Edited June 12, 2021 by skej21 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tegs07 Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 2 minutes ago, Geek99 said: True, and I agree but it doesn’t mean that CS was ever right for them. If you pick up a CS and it doesn’t feel fabulous and play nicely then you wasted money on it. The doors on a bmw close differently than the ones on my Peugeot 108 - for the money asked a CS should be like the BMW But do they close like a 1960’s BMW 507? I’ve not played a CS and am not really in the market for one so can’t accurately access their value or quality. From what I have seen online they do a lot of bespoke work some of which are vintage spec so won’t suit everyone’s taste or requirements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 7 minutes ago, skej21 said: Hmmmm I think that just shows the difference in expectations! For me, it’s not about money. What I expect from a Fender CS comes from a knowledge of what it is they’re trying to sell. In your analogy, it’s like someone buying a 1978 BMW expecting power steering “for that kind of money”, or more accurately, if BMW manufactured a 2021 historic recreation of a model from 1978 which they charged a premium for (because they had to use old/rare expertise and manufacturing techniques/materials to be as close to the original as possible), and then someone buying it and saying “well for that kind of money, it should at least have power steering and electric windows, because I’d get that on a 2021 Dacia. I can’t believe I’m going to have to fork out extra money on top to install electric windows and power steering” The answer really is pretty simple. If you know what you want, find an instrument that does that thing and THEN look at the name/price 🙂 I don't think that that is necessarily the greatest analogy as the amount of tech in cars has changed so much. You can add a preamp to a bass but you equally can go your whole life playing passive basses and never really miss out. The difference I look for between great instruments and 'meh' instruments is similar to acoustic instruments, in how the thing resonates, sounds, and feels. Generally if I go and buy something from someone really top end, I dunno, Fodera, Overwater, Sadowsky NYC etc I expect it to sound 'right' passive/unplugged and to have a fairly even response across the board. As I go down the price points I expect the chances of getting something that does that well to go down. (Unless it's a Yamaha, in which case it will probably be a lot better than other instruments at the price point.) Fender CS prices, I expect it to bye pretty good as an instrument, regaurdlesss if they are recreating a '50's instrument, a C18th violin or a modern instrument. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorks5stringer Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 15 hours ago, TheGreek said: I will sell 10% of my idea for £75,000. I can't believe you think you are valued at £750,000 with no pre sales. So ( you've guessed it) I'm out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CookPassBabtridge Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 42 minutes ago, LukeFRC said: I don't think that that is necessarily the greatest analogy as the amount of tech in cars has changed so much. You can add a preamp to a bass but you equally can go your whole life playing passive basses and never really miss out. The difference I look for between great instruments and 'meh' instruments is similar to acoustic instruments, in how the thing resonates, sounds, and feels. Generally if I go and buy something from someone really top end, I dunno, Fodera, Overwater, Sadowsky NYC etc I expect it to sound 'right' passive/unplugged and to have a fairly even response across the board. As I go down the price points I expect the chances of getting something that does that well to go down. (Unless it's a Yamaha, in which case it will probably be a lot better than other instruments at the price point.) Fender CS prices, I expect it to bye pretty good as an instrument, regaurdlesss if they are recreating a '50's instrument, a C18th violin or a modern instrument. I agree, some of the QC issues mentioned such as the rising fretboard that meant the action couldn’t be set very low are more comparable to the steering on a car not working properly rather than not having power steering (to use the analogy on here). It wouldn’t have been acceptable then and wouldn’t be now. Also, not all CS Fenders are supposed to be exact relics from the 50s, 60s, 70s etc. I’ve briefly toyed with the idea of a CS Fender and I’d probably just go for a non-relic with a scale length, colour, pickups, pickup position and tone circuit that suit me. I’d be furious if I spent £3k+ on something like that and it had QC issues. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skej21 Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 4 hours ago, LukeFRC said: I don't think that that is necessarily the greatest analogy as the amount of tech in cars has changed so much. You can add a preamp to a bass but you equally can go your whole life playing passive basses and never really miss out. The difference I look for between great instruments and 'meh' instruments is similar to acoustic instruments, in how the thing resonates, sounds, and feels. Generally if I go and buy something from someone really top end, I dunno, Fodera, Overwater, Sadowsky NYC etc I expect it to sound 'right' passive/unplugged and to have a fairly even response across the board. As I go down the price points I expect the chances of getting something that does that well to go down. (Unless it's a Yamaha, in which case it will probably be a lot better than other instruments at the price point.) Fender CS prices, I expect it to bye pretty good as an instrument, regaurdlesss if they are recreating a '50's instrument, a C18th violin or a modern instrument. 100% agree. QC issues are just that and should be non existent on a bass at all price points. My point was more that a lot of these discussions fall down on how an instrument isn’t what the person wants or expects for their money, and that’s somehow the manufacturer’s fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk_lefty Posted June 12, 2021 Author Share Posted June 12, 2021 2 hours ago, skej21 said: 100% agree. QC issues are just that and should be non existent on a bass at all price points. My point was more that a lot of these discussions fall down on how an instrument isn’t what the person wants or expects for their money, and that’s somehow the manufacturer’s fault. But a jazz bass should sound like a jazz bass. And a very expensive jazz bass should have a refined sound, whether modern hifi ish sound or traditional warm, the bridge pickup should still give you some honk, the tone control should be more than all or nothing. This was my point. Not that I was expecting active electronics, etc etc. I just expected it to be a very good jazz bass in sound as well as looks. Cant remember if I said it straight off but it's the best relic I've ever seen. I do appreciate that takes time, skill, expensive materials. I just wondered why all the effort went in to that and it got sent out not sounding great. Had it sounded fantastic I'd have thought £2,500 was a bit steep for me but understandable. However, without a good sound coming out of it is just wall art. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnybass Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 13 hours ago, uk_lefty said: Especially if you then need to spend £250 on pickups etc to get it sounding right. This is my point really. For the cash that you have to spend, and even for the man hours going in to the build, surely you want it to sound good... I know that's a lot down to the beholder but really! Agree, all in (bass, electronics, pickups, work) it comes in around half the price of a brand new one. Very much VFM..but if I paid over £3k and had to do this much work? Nah. To contrast I have an ACG recurve 5. Never felt the need to do anything but change the strings. Costs less than a brand new CS fender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnybass Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 13 hours ago, Geek99 said: Yes, okay… 99% perfect. but if you CS order a passive custom shop instrument and then immediately add a pre amp, something is wrong My CS is a custom classic, which comes with noiseless n3 pickups and 18v 3 band eq. To my ears the east pre and nordstrands sound better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horrorshowbass Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 I will probably get an AM PRO II someday but just have a laugh at some of the CS fender prices. Maybe if you own a small company..... Saw a Phil Lynott Fender bass for 10k on ebay recently, Philo would be rolling in his grave. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324273189213?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=7101533165274578&mkcid=2&itemid=324273189213&targetid=4584826055637458&device=c&mktype=&googleloc=&poi=&campaignid=412354546&mkgroupid=1299623041023876&rlsatarget=pla-4584826055637458&abcId=9300541&merchantid=87779&msclkid=f5439e6fbbda123474fdfea4a353ce33 Maybe the aviator sunglasses are really nice.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk_lefty Posted June 17, 2021 Author Share Posted June 17, 2021 22 minutes ago, horrorshowbass said: I will probably get an AM PRO II someday but just have a laugh at some of the CS fender prices. Maybe if you own a small company..... Saw a Phil Lynott Fender bass for 10k on ebay recently, Philo would be rolling in his grave. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324273189213?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=7101533165274578&mkcid=2&itemid=324273189213&targetid=4584826055637458&device=c&mktype=&googleloc=&poi=&campaignid=412354546&mkgroupid=1299623041023876&rlsatarget=pla-4584826055637458&abcId=9300541&merchantid=87779&msclkid=f5439e6fbbda123474fdfea4a353ce33 Maybe the aviator sunglasses are really nice.... That kind of money for a P bass is insane. A bolt on neck, passive P bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skin Lewis Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 After playing a mid 90's CIJ '62 Jazz for 25 years, I recently got myself a brand new custom shop '60 Jazz stack pot heavy relic. Yes, rather expensive, but worth it to me. It plays beautifully, sounds just like it should, feels sublime, and is very well put together. Worlds apart from the CIJ in terms of playability, build, sound and looks. It has the kind of mojo that makes me want to pick it up and play constantly, no mean feat after 55 years of playing. Absolutely no regrets. I'm not a banker, BTW. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martthebass Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 I think the only Fender bass I've played in the last few years that I have been surprised by in a good way in terms of both sound and build is the JMJ Mustang and it's not made in the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 On 12/06/2021 at 06:39, Chiliwailer said: Many prices are nuts these days. My Mike Lull PJ4 cost me £1999 in 2015, now they are £2999. I love that bass, and as its a quality custom build £3k is not outrageous, but I wouldn’t pay that for one now. My MM Stingray Special HH was £2200 in 2018, which was high then IMO, now they are nearer to £3k, which is crazy too. All that said, the value, desirability and reasons to pay out is subjective to the buyer, and I can see why people would pay these prices, for a CS too, and that’s cool with me. A slight aside, but funnily enough, I had a few minutes to stray into PMT Manchester on my way to our data centres this morning, and they have a 4003W on the wall, the same bass (sic) I paid £1599 for in 2014. It's priced at £2999. Still cheaper than the Fireglow next to it at £3349... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CookPassBabtridge Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 4 hours ago, horrorshowbass said: I will probably get an AM PRO II someday but just have a laugh at some of the CS fender prices. Maybe if you own a small company..... Saw a Phil Lynott Fender bass for 10k on ebay recently, Philo would be rolling in his grave. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324273189213?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=7101533165274578&mkcid=2&itemid=324273189213&targetid=4584826055637458&device=c&mktype=&googleloc=&poi=&campaignid=412354546&mkgroupid=1299623041023876&rlsatarget=pla-4584826055637458&abcId=9300541&merchantid=87779&msclkid=f5439e6fbbda123474fdfea4a353ce33 Maybe the aviator sunglasses are really nice.... The cost of the Phil Lynott custom shop P has always shocked me. Unless you’re an uber fan or part of a tribute act, you are effectively paying many thousands for a passive P with a badass bridge and mirrored pickguard. Unless I am missing something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munurmunuh Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 1 hour ago, CookPassBabtridge said: The cost of the Phil Lynott custom shop P has always shocked me. Unless you’re an uber fan or part of a tribute act, you are effectively paying many thousands for a passive P with a badass bridge and mirrored pickguard. Unless I am missing something. Is it not one of the homage relics where every scratch is copied from the original instrument, like the recent Cliff William's Stingray? "Our Master Builders have painstakingly recreated this bass in precise detail, as only the Custom Shop can." If so, then most of the money is paying artists to paint a portrait of one bass on top of another one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiram.k.hackenbacker Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 33 minutes ago, Ricky Rioli said: Is it not one of the homage relics where every scratch is copied from the original instrument, like the recent Cliff William's Stingray? "Our Master Builders have painstakingly recreated this bass in precise detail, as only the Custom Shop can." If so, then most of the money is paying artists to paint a portrait of one bass on top of another one. Nope. Nice and shiny they are. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munurmunuh Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 27 minutes ago, hiram.k.hackenbacker said: Nope. Nice and shiny they are. 😳 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horrorshowbass Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 Screw em all MIM Geddy Lee for me, I can put my own dings on it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacDaddy Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 I had 2 Kubicki's, one was from the Fender Custom shop and it was the one I preferred. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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