glassmoon Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 Hi all, I'm about to take delivery of a EBMM SUB Ray5 - I got it as a working Joe's instrument, with a view to upgrading as and when I could. I have heard great things about the bass, watched many videos, read many reviews, and all seem to indicate that the electronics are the weakest link. Having said that, money is tight and I'm looking for options that are good yet inexpensive. As much as one day I hope to be able to slot in a Nordstrand MM, for the next little while, I'm looking for advice and opinions. I see Kent Armstrong and at around the 60 quid Mark, I'm all ears. Are they good? Better than say the Bartolini M1 range or about the same? Your views are hugely welcome. Kind regards Julian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 What shape is the existing pickup? Does it have screw lugs or is it the soapbar shape? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassmoon Posted June 13, 2021 Author Share Posted June 13, 2021 It's the traditional MM style with two lugs on the bass side and one on the treble. Attached is the bass I'm waiting on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassApprentice Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 Depends if you want a modern or vintage tone? Some UK based guys do custom pickups at very reasonable prices like Catwhisker or the Creamery. Also might be worth playing stock for a while and seeing what it does/doesn't do for you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassmoon Posted June 13, 2021 Author Share Posted June 13, 2021 4 minutes ago, BassApprentice said: Depends if you want a modern or vintage tone? Some UK based guys do custom pickups at very reasonable prices like Catwhisker or the Creamery. Also might be worth playing stock for a while and seeing what it does/doesn't do for you. I will definitely look into those two, and any others that I can find. Many thanks. The UK market is still very new to me (only been here 2 years), so this is all invaluable information. And yeah, I haven't even received it hahahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassApprentice Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 It's always tempting to want to upgrade something as it is perceived as "cheap" But you get so much for your money these days that sometimes upgrades aren't necessary at all! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassmoon Posted June 13, 2021 Author Share Posted June 13, 2021 I remember reading a Bass Player article from 1996, that said that sometimes using an EQ pedal is a way cheaper option than swapping out the electronics.... and I buy into that. I really do. I just want to get the most out of the instrument that I can. I am definitely not going to buy for buying's sake, but if, for example, the Kent Armstrong route is a good one, for under £60, and it bumps the sound into a new level of richness, then I am all for that. But I will play and A/B against my Nord kitted Ibanez first Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andruca Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 (edited) IME there's nothing wrong about that pickup. I own 2 USA Stingray5s and I don't miss anything vital in the timbre those pickups produce. The endemic problem in SUBs is the preamp, which has no headroom, thus distorts on peaks when you play hard (or when boosting the EQ if you don't play too hard). IMHO it should do OK with a 20€ Artec preamp upgrade (a 20€ Artec preamp is WAY better than what comes stock). There's a cheaper/quicker thing to try (I'd do it if it were mine as those preamps are useless to me as they come), which is feeding it 18V, therefore gaining headroom. Most if not all onboard preamps admit a wide range of supply voltage, which instrument manufacturers usually decide based on how hot the pickups of choice are. And that preamp is crap, I wouldn't care if it blew away (highly unlikely, have successfully done it with some other crappy onboards I wasn't concerned about eventually screwing up). Edited June 14, 2021 by andruca 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Browning Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 I have a 4 string SUB and it was transformed by a Retrovibe Stinger pre-amp. I would strongly suggest you think about that as your first upgrade. I may even stick with the stock pickup as a result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassmoon Posted June 14, 2021 Author Share Posted June 14, 2021 39 minutes ago, Steve Browning said: I have a 4 string SUB and it was transformed by a Retrovibe Stinger pre-amp. I would strongly suggest you think about that as your first upgrade. I may even stick with the stock pickup as a result. Interesting - I am unfamiliar - but let me Goo Gill the heck out it - many thanks Steve! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassmoon Posted June 14, 2021 Author Share Posted June 14, 2021 I think I am sold just from the Chowny bass video!!!! Rich tone that i was not actually expecting. BTW @Steve Browning, did you keep your stock pickup? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Browning Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 I have for now. In truth, it is more likely to be pure snobbery that would make me change it. I had a pre-EB Stingray many moons ago and the combination of the stock pick-up and Retrovibe pre-amp get me a sound that is pretty much the same as my recollection of the sound of the original. I was careful to get a pre-amp that set out to emulate the original 2 eq pre-amp and the Retrovibe nails it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassmoon Posted June 14, 2021 Author Share Posted June 14, 2021 1 minute ago, Steve Browning said: I have for now. In truth, it is more likely to be pure snobbery that would make me change it. I had a pre-EB Stingray many moons ago and the combination of the stock pick-up and Retrovibe pre-amp get me a sound that is pretty much the same as my recollection of the sound of the original. I was careful to get a pre-amp that set out to emulate the original 2 eq pre-amp and the Retrovibe nails it. I think I will bite the bullet on the Retroglide - a nice Father's Day contribution means I can afford it (I need gigs!!!!!) What pickup have you been looking at? I would love a Nordstrand - my Ibanez sounds monstrous - but I just can spend that much - hence me looking at the Kent Armstrong. Any thoughts would be great 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Browning Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 I've looked at the usual suspects that have been mentioned. I've always been a big fan of Kent Armstrong pickups. I guess the only thing is the lack of visible pole pieces (how shallow is that?). I am suspending thoughts of changing the pickup at the moment as I think the pre-amp change has done the job I wanted done on the sound. My guess is any pickup change would still lead to a pre-amp change whereas you may find a pre-amp swap may not lead to the need for another pickup. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassmoon Posted June 14, 2021 Author Share Posted June 14, 2021 Just now, Steve Browning said: I've looked at the usual suspects that have been mentioned. I've always been a big fan of Kent Armstrong pickups. I guess the only thing is the lack of visible pole pieces (how shallow is that?). Oddly enough, that is kinda how I feel too - I've had a Lankland before and the poles would not have worked, but for a MM/EB bass, I think the poles add a certain authenticity - but it's all about the sound I guess.. 1 minute ago, Steve Browning said: I am suspending thoughts of changing the pickup at the moment as I think the pre-amp change has done the job I wanted done on the sound. My guess is any pickup change would still lead to a pre-amp change whereas you may find a pre-amp swap may not lead to the need for another pickup. Y'know - that may well be the case - the preamp is a good start - roughly the same price (within a tenner) so nothing ventured I suppose!!!! I bow to you sir, and say "thank you" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanheusen77 Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 I made this short comparison. The Seymour Duncan is available for 5 strings also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassmoon Posted June 23, 2021 Author Share Posted June 23, 2021 29 minutes ago, Vanheusen77 said: I made this short comparison. The Seymour Duncan is available for 5 strings also. Great video. Problem is the shape of the SD 5. That it is a rectangul and doesn't have the 2 bass lugs and 1 treble lug is just beyond my understanding. Were its a 5 string version of the 4, it wouldn't even be a competition I suspect... Someone must've thought it a good idea though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andruca Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 (edited) On 23/06/2021 at 21:14, glassmoon said: Great video. Problem is the shape of the SD 5. That it is a rectangul and doesn't have the 2 bass lugs and 1 treble lug is just beyond my understanding. Were its a 5 string version of the 4, it wouldn't even be a competition I suspect... Someone must've thought it a good idea though That's because pre-2008 Stingray5s came with the old rectangular cover. I think the rectangular pickup was alnico in the early years, then it was ceramic (from 1993 on IIRC) 'til they started offering the Sterling5. Since then Stingrays, either 4 or 5 string are alnico and both 4 and 5 string Sterlings are ceramic. SD will probably issue a version with the 3 flanges, seems logical, there should be many people asking for those, I think the SBMM affordable line opened the door to a lot of upgrading culture. Edited June 25, 2021 by andruca 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassmoon Posted June 25, 2021 Author Share Posted June 25, 2021 Well, the only other option would be a new plate - which isn't the end of the world Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanheusen77 Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 I can really recommend the Seymour Duncan for a more typical MM sound compared to the sub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassmoon Posted June 25, 2021 Author Share Posted June 25, 2021 1 hour ago, Vanheusen77 said: I can really recommend the Seymour Duncan for a more typical MM sound compared to the sub. Yeah, the more I think about it, I'm just going to have to get a custom pick guard made to accommodate the larger (non-lugged) pickup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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