thebeat Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 [quote name='escholl' post='448055' date='Mar 28 2009, 01:14 PM']nostalgia isn't what it used to be.[/quote] Nostalgia is a thing of the past mate. 10 points for whoever knows which Irish band had that line in one of their tunes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soopercrip Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 [quote name='thebeat' post='448186' date='Mar 28 2009, 04:35 PM']Nostalgia is a thing of the past mate. 10 points for whoever knows which Irish band had that line in one of their tunes. [/quote] Dubliners??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 [quote name='thebeat' post='448186' date='Mar 28 2009, 04:35 PM']Nostalgia is a thing of the past mate. 10 points for whoever knows which Irish band had that line in one of their tunes. [/quote] Oh, I know this. It was either Boylife or Westzone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 I would to a certain extent disagree. My last band was full of teachers so we played a couple of times during "judges' deliberation" in schools battle of the bands evenings. The technical ability of the musicians that proceeded us was way above what I and most of my class-mates were capable of 30 years ago when we were of a similar age. However what was missing was innovation and musical risk taking. Not one of the bands played an original composition and instead kept it safe by playing well-known covers (even I recognised all of them). Of course I think it's much easier these days to to get technically proficient (if you have the dedication to put in the practice) there's plenty of aids available to show you how to play stuff - tabs, instructional videos etc. If I wanted to learn a song I would have to sit down with the record and my bass and work it out for myself by ear, plus my parents hated that I was wasting my time with such a low-brow for of entertainment as "popular music". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouMa Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 If kids are sh*t these days,its highly likely that its the people who brought them ups fault,kids are just empty vessels waiting to be given knowledge and guidance. I do agree that this resurgence of new wave in music is bloody awful,i mean i think probably the last really good original bands were probably 10 to 15 years ago,stone roses etc. When i watch jools holland i dont really see any new bands that offer much,and i dont think thats because im now in my 30s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonestar Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 Pogues? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted March 28, 2009 Author Share Posted March 28, 2009 [quote name='BigRedX' post='448219' date='Mar 28 2009, 05:30 PM']I would to a certain extent disagree. My last band was full of teachers so we played a couple of times during "judges' deliberation" in schools battle of the bands evenings. The technical ability of the musicians that proceeded us was way above what I and most of my class-mates were capable of 30 years ago when we were of a similar age. However what was missing was innovation and musical risk taking. Not one of the bands played an original composition and instead kept it safe by playing well-known covers (even I recognised all of them). Of course I think it's much easier these days to to get technically proficient (if you have the dedication to put in the practice) there's plenty of aids available to show you how to play stuff - tabs, instructional videos etc. If I wanted to learn a song I would have to sit down with the record and my bass and work it out for myself by ear, plus my parents hated that I was wasting my time with such a low-brow for of entertainment as "popular music".[/quote] That’s pretty much what I was wondering. It’s easier now to learn to play for the reasons you mention, but do kids now have the dedication to take it a stage further! I genuinely don’t know, but according to my mate the general standard is a lot lower. Not that he is particularly bothered, he just mentioned it as an observation – he just cares whether they have commercial songs and the right haircut! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGH Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 Grunge,stopped a lot of effort in music...being slack became the norm,and so we had a generation growing up,that didnt have the nous to make the effort in learning how to play or even attempt to know how to make a living on the instrument of choice... Protools has destroyed microphone technique...joke music schools run courses on how to succeed at 'X' factor style auditions....Song writing as an original form is pretty much run by older 30-40 somethings,and a lot of what is on the radio ,its influence is obvious to the point of rip off. At least Punks in the 70s wanted to know how the machine 'worked' so they would try something new.....Not many want to make the effort at academia,and study. If you cant read,its probably a hobby...maybe a hobby that got out of control,I pretty much say you need to know chord charts,but if you cant at least know what notes are where and in relation to what...good luck...dont expect to make a living from it. All those metal shredders are still working....still writing,and teaching...and they were always far more versatile than people gave them credit for..... There are always one or two exceptions..The kid that will watch,sit,listen and work at it....They make it. Ive to do a talk on Friday..to a handful of 13-16 year olds....I wonder what sort of questions Im going to get? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 (edited) [quote name='peteb' post='448152' date='Mar 28 2009, 03:47 PM']But is he right?[/quote] He may be right about the musicians that he's seen. My experience is 100% different. Most young musicians I encounter (and we really ought to agree an age range here) - are, on the whole, light years better than [i]we[/i] were at their age (that would be 30 years ago for me) and in many instances are more technically proficient and committed than we are [i]now[/i]. It may not be that they are inherently more talented humans - but they will probably have been better nurtured within the educational system (in 1975 I had a knackered violin forced on me without any instruction on even how to tune the b*gger), plus better quality entry-level instruments, instructional material, the InterWebz and a growing number of tutors and academies. I am profoundly happy that younger musicians benefit from the above and glad that they take advantage of it, even if their choice of material is, on occasions, soured by the 'covers' issue that, in truth, afflicts us all. I reserve my deepest concerns for the grumbling, pre-terminal old Bobs (like me) who will sally forth tonight to ruin a perfectly good evening in the pub with drab, inaccurate covers of classic rock hits, while flagrantly abusing 'the Hawaiian shirt rule'. Yours Sir Bufton Tufton Old Ways Little Zimmerframe On-The-Wold Sunsetshire Edited March 28, 2009 by skankdelvar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budget bassist Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 (edited) I think maybe the ratio of good musicians has gone down, it's easier for people to get hold of an instrument these days, and easier to teach yourself, obviously you'll probably be a better musician if you're taught by a teacher rather than the internet or something. I'll confess, i've taught myself, and i don't think i'm great, but it's about having fun for me. I really think there are some great young musicians out there right now though. You might say "worse than 20 years ago", i'll say different. Certainly not worse though by any stretch of the imagination. As for you old gits saying "the youth of today are useless, stupid lazy etc blah blah whinge whinge". Shut up and open your eyes. [quote name='BigRedX' post='448219' date='Mar 28 2009, 05:30 PM']I would to a certain extent disagree. My last band was full of teachers so we played a couple of times during "judges' deliberation" in schools battle of the bands evenings. The technical ability of the musicians that proceeded us was way above what I and most of my class-mates were capable of 30 years ago when we were of a similar age. However what was missing was innovation and musical risk taking. Not one of the bands played an original composition and instead kept it safe by playing well-known covers (even I recognised all of them). Of course I think it's much easier these days to to get technically proficient (if you have the dedication to put in the practice) there's plenty of aids available to show you how to play stuff - tabs, instructional videos etc. If I wanted to learn a song I would have to sit down with the record and my bass and work it out for myself by ear, plus my parents hated that I was wasting my time with such a low-brow for of entertainment as "popular music".[/quote] When we run battle of the bands, we tend to impose a "no covers" rule. There are some really good musicians around here, not a lot, but there's one or two guitarists that are BLOODY good. [quote name='ARGH' post='448249' date='Mar 28 2009, 06:04 PM']Protools has destroyed microphone technique...[/quote] I disagree! I'm doing a music tech course now, and no amount of fiddling will make a bad mic placement sound like a good one! The only exception to that is probably reverb/ambient mics, and they don't even sound the same. Edited March 28, 2009 by budget bassist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil_the_bassist Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 [quote name='peteb' post='448243' date='Mar 28 2009, 05:58 PM']he just cares whether they have commercial songs and the right haircut![/quote] so the segment of the industry that he's involved in has shown a (perceived) drop in talent, when what he's lookin for is the right haircut, clothing labels, and a sound cloned from the the MOTR bland, soulless, flat-packed indie-pop bile that clogs the airwaves...and NOT the musicians who try and master their instrument and produce different, new, interesting music. ...and he's suprised? It's Darwin on a shorter timescale...reward the safe bets, and the extremes will fall to the wayside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGH Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 One thing that is really good,in the modern age...its that you can approach or email musicians you admire,AND get a reply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzz Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 (edited) [quote name='ARGH' post='448249' date='Mar 28 2009, 06:04 PM']Ive to do a talk on Friday..to a handful of 13-16 year olds....I wonder what sort of questions Im going to get?[/quote] Can you make a new thread on the questions you get (if any) Argh? I'd be quite interesting in reading them, I presume they're all budding musicians? Edited March 28, 2009 by Buzz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGH Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 There will always be Musical instrument 'owners'...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGH Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Buzz' post='448271' date='Mar 28 2009, 06:23 PM']Can you make a new thread on the questions you get (if any) Argh? I'd be quite interesting to read them, I presume they're all budding musicians?[/quote] As...well..from what Im told...Ive an hour..Ive a gig first, in front of 250 of them....and Ive been assured they will go nuts,in the lunch hour... Ive planned to split the hour afterwards into 20min sections. Im gonna start with Motivation.....then the need for correct technique and knowledge of fretboard and theory...and finally a bit on....and I find this a LOT on beginners instruments correct ....installation of strings. Edited March 28, 2009 by ARGH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGH Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 [quote name='budget bassist' post='448259' date='Mar 28 2009, 06:12 PM']I disagree! I'm doing a music tech course now, and no amount of fiddling will make a bad mic placement sound like a good one! The only exception to that is probably reverb/ambient mics, and they don't even sound the same.[/quote] Sorry,I disagree.....when you have a lad that clicks a mouse button to add room ambience,over simply moving the Mic,you have a problem,Ive not met that many under 21s that can mic up a drum kit properly,or younger soundguys cope without triggers.....Hell its not hard to mic a kick,Ive watched some utterly botch it. Tuning drums,It shocks me that so few actually tune a kit correctly...even ryth sections in music are dying off,producers are having to teach younger bands how to actually interact 'sonically'....to actually write Bass lines. I still see a ton of young lads/lasses buying stuff thats great in the bedroom and rehearsal room but wails like a banshee onstage...the beginner gear is WAAAYYY better than I had in my day,but the opposite of that is you dont get kids 'looking' for the best tone out of the instrument. Or what to modify to make better. a flip of this is/are rich kids...parents buy the flash gear,and they have no clue...There will always be a bullsh*tt*r in a music shop,and some dont even set up their instruments anymore,or understand how small things make great effect in tone..heavier strings,less distortion more volume....little things... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGH Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 I also think..though I have no proof..That to pass a popular musical 'course' is laughably easy financial transaction with somewhat small musical value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budget bassist Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 (edited) [quote name='ARGH' post='448301' date='Mar 28 2009, 06:46 PM']Sorry,I disagree.....when you have a lad that clicks a mouse button to add room ambience,over simply moving the Mic,you have a problem,Ive not met that many under 21s that can mic up a drum kit properly,or younger soundguys cope without triggers.....Hell its not hard to mic a kick,Ive watched some utterly botch it.[/quote] I don't see what's so bad about the digital revolution, it just makes capturing and manipulating trhe sound easier, the physical element of using mics to get the best possible sound is still there. And the way you mic up a drum kit is entirely subjective, as long as you get the sound you're after then it doesn't matter what you do to it. [quote name='ARGH' post='448311' date='Mar 28 2009, 06:59 PM']I also think..though I have no proof..That to pass a popular musical 'course' is laughably easy financial transaction with somewhat small musical value.[/quote] Maybe you shouldn't make such sweeping generalisations like some other people have been in this thread. I'm not even going to bother arguing, you obviously haven't experienced many musical courses Edited March 28, 2009 by budget bassist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassbloke Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 I disagree. On a general level, a few hours spent watching episodes of Tops of the pops from the 70s, 80s and 90s will tell you that crap always has and always will exist. There is a sizeable number of people that aren't particularly discerning in their musical tastes and will always buy crap. I've been gigging, with various degrees of frequency, since 1993. In that time I've been in the position where my playing ability has far exceeded that of people younger and older than me. What I will say is this. Bands nowadays are far more technology and industry savvy than their predecessors. There was a time when the average band didn't have a clue about the recording process and would all club together and rely on a studio and engineer to do it all for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGH Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 [quote name='budget bassist' post='448313' date='Mar 28 2009, 07:01 PM']I don't see what's so bad about the digital revolution, it just makes capturing and manipulating trhe sound easier, the physical element of using mics to get the best possible sound is still there. And the way you mic up a drum kit is entirely subjective, as long as you get the sound you're after then it doesn't matter what you do to it.[/quote] The head of the music dept a Yorkshire uni,had this out with me in Bingley....of all gods places The digital revolution is perfectly fine..but what happens when it goes wrong,breaks down or isnt available? The basics NEED to be taught and learnt in an academic and practical situation. Its amazing for mastering....it saves time,but if you cant mic properly..play in time...tune up ...without digital assistance,WITHOUT the ability to do such a thing without un-natural aid..learning the intricacies of a room,the way a mic...even mics of the same brand ,behave....do you really think that digital is going to fix that?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted March 28, 2009 Author Share Posted March 28, 2009 [quote name='phil_the_bassist' post='448260' date='Mar 28 2009, 06:13 PM']so the segment of the industry that he's involved in has shown a (perceived) drop in talent, when what he's lookin for is the right haircut, clothing labels, and a sound cloned from the the MOTR bland, soulless, flat-packed indie-pop bile that clogs the airwaves...and NOT the musicians who try and master their instrument and produce different, new, interesting music. ...and he's suprised? It's Darwin on a shorter timescale...reward the safe bets, and the extremes will fall to the wayside.[/quote] He's actually talking mainly about nu metal rather than indie! The industry has always been more interested in image and ambition than in musical ability, that hasn't changed at all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budget bassist Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 [quote name='ARGH' post='448323' date='Mar 28 2009, 07:22 PM']Its amazing for mastering....it saves time,but if you cant mic properly..play in time...tune up ...without digital assistance,WITHOUT the ability to do such a thing without un-natural aid..learning the intricacies of a room,the way a mic...even mics of the same brand ,behave....do you really think that digital is going to fix that?.[/quote] I never said that, i never even hinted towards that, you're just saying exactly what i said two posts ago, what's your point? And everything breaks down, digital or not. sh*t happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGH Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 [quote name='budget bassist' post='448336' date='Mar 28 2009, 07:36 PM']I never said that, i never even hinted towards that, you're just saying exactly what i said two posts ago, what's your point? And everything breaks down, digital or not. sh*t happens.[/quote] I know you didnt,I was paraphrasing the Teacher that was talking to me.... My friends in the same sort of thing as you,his is film/tv score and production...at Leeds,and he is like you learning digital,because the work is on that scale..small,in the home studio. My snipey comment was about 'Popular' music courses in the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGH Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 [quote name='peteb' post='448329' date='Mar 28 2009, 07:27 PM']He's actually talking mainly about nu metal rather than indie! The industry has always been more interested in image and ambition than in musical ability, that hasn't changed at all![/quote] Nu-Metal...yes the ability to play has lowered.... Send him to see us. We might restore his faith! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slaphappygarry Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 More idiotic sweeping generalizations! Keep them coming, I am loving it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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