General decline of standards

[51m0n]

[quote name='mike257' post='464879' date='Apr 17 2009, 12:11 PM']The comparison between Oasis and Extreme is a perfect case in point. I'm not a massive fan of either band, but I can respect both of them. Certainly nobody in Oasis is half as capable on their instrument as Nuno and co, but you won't see 60,000 people in a field singing their hearts out because they feel so uplifted by 'Get The Funk Out'.[/quote]

Actually in Japan you would.......

They were huge there!

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='mike257' post='464879' date='Apr 17 2009, 12:11 PM']... the music industry wants bands that people - ordinary non musician people off the street - can connect with.[/quote]

...and so they sign ordinary non musician people off the street.

(All this is nothing new - the Monkees were a totally manufactured band and that was 40 years ago).

[Tait]

[quote name='captain black' post='449161' date='Mar 30 2009, 01:41 AM']I've noticed a proliferation in the numbers of 'Dads Bands' around at the minute.

...

Anyway....Rant over.

Ps. Apologies to anyone who helps out with their son's band but you get my point.[/quote]

sorry, but if we don't have cars and are taking gear to a gig, and have willing parent's, doesn't it make sense for our parent's to take us to the gig? and if our parents know what they're doing, why shouldn't they help out? what's the point in getting the bus then walking 6 miles or whatever else you claim you used to do, when my dad's perfectly willing to take me? and how often do you honestly see the kid doing nothing at all, just standing around looking vaguely interested? i've never seen it, the teenagers tend to do something, even if its just learning how to do it for the future.

another thing i'd like to add is how do you lot who are saying "kids only want to be as good as they need to be to get a record deal", know that thats what the kids want? if you came to see me at a gig, you'd probably think i only want to be as good as i have to be to get a record deal, but thats part of being in a band - playing as a band, giving each other room to do what they want, it's not a competition to see who can look most skilled on stage, its about playing songs. songs, not bass solos. if you saw me practising, i can play a lot more and a lot flashier than i do when im on stage, but that doesn't sound right.

also, how many of you oldies play in bands where you write music that is both enjoyable to listen to, and is complicated or different? i thought not, the public don't want to listen to a bunch of oldies playing wierd scales that don't quite sound right. they want to listen to catchy rythms o songs that make them feel something.

and my last point is that i could easily name a few bands that were terrible when you old people were young, the sex pistols are the first that srping to mind (i just wanna say that i mean terrible as instrumentalists, i actually quite like the sex pistols' music). are you really telling me that music today is even more basic and has lower standards than those of the sex pistols?

[skankdelvar]

...and Tait scores yet again.

As for The Pistols (who I love) - "as good as they need(ed) to be to get a record deal" sums them up perfectly.

Edited April 18, 2009 by skankdelvar

[Rich]

"The public don't want to listen to a bunch of oldies"..? Really?

[Tait]

[quote name='Rich' post='466387' date='Apr 18 2009, 09:21 PM']"The public don't want to listen to a bunch of oldies"..? Really?[/quote]

the rolling stones dont count.

on a more serious note, you didn't quote the whole sentence there, you took it out of context, to make it sound like im arguing something different than i am. i said the public dont want to listen to oldies playing wierd scales that dont sound right, which they dont, not that they dont want to listen to oldies. i suppose your eyesight just isn't what it used to be though

Edited April 18, 2009 by LWTAIT

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='LWTAIT' post='466394' date='Apr 18 2009, 09:44 PM']... i suppose your eyesight just isn't what it used to be though [/quote]

Hahahaha.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='captain black' post='449161' date='Mar 30 2009, 01:41 AM']I've noticed a proliferation in the numbers of 'Dads Bands' around at the minute.
You can see them all over. They're young.
Their dads ferry them to 'gigs' and set the gear up for them while they stand around looking vaguely interested.
They spend the whole night playing power chords learnt from Tab off the internet while adoring jailbait looks on.
The dads stand at the back nodding all the way through and then pack up the gear at the end.
The upshot?
It's all done for them!
They haven't had to do it for themselves.
As a kid I had to bus 6 miles to practices then carry my amp and bass about a mile (stopping for many rests) so that by the time I got there I could hardly play.
When you learnt your favourite songs you had to LISTEN to the Record ...NO REALLY LISTEN and work out what was going on.
You learnt the subtleties. You learnt your trade. You couldn't just google it.
So I think your answer lies in the fact that the future generation of bands are missing out on the 'serving your time' part.
Also the standard of affordable guitars and basses you learnt on back then, or should I say Planks (hondo etc.), was pretty poor in comparison to what young 'uns have today (not that Dad hasn't bought them a Les Paul anyway).
Anyway....Rant over.

Ps. Apologies to anyone who helps out with their son's band but you get my point.[/quote]

I don't get your point.

I help out my son (aged 15) in many ways including helping him with buying equipment or lending him equipment (and he makes his own contribution to that when he can), driving him and his equipment to practices and gigs (and he often takes the bus), paying for his guitar lessons (on the proviso that he is practising and doing his grade exams) and sometimes singing and keyboard lessons too. I don't, however, set up his gear; he doesn't spend the whole night playing power chords learnt from tab off the internet; for him the girls are not 'jailbait' - as you insultingly call them - because they are the same age as he is; I don't stand at the back nodding; I don't pack up the gear at the end. And anyway, I think he'd prefer it if I wasn't there at all as my presence cramps his style and embarrasses him - so I tend to keep out of the way as best I can if I have to be hanging around.

And I tell you what - it is not all done for him. He does do it himself. It is true that he has opportunites that many kids don't have (and maybe you didn't have and I certainly didn't have) but it's also true that he hassles for gigs himself, he learns songs himself, he writes songs himself, he practises himself, he turns up for band practices, he's doing well in his GCSEs in Music and Music Technology, and even though he has a father and teachers, he does it himself, like young people do.

Now, as for listening to records, he doesn't do much of that because the whole of our family music collection is computerised so it's mp3s. However, although he will use tab sometimes (if he can find one that's actually correct), he uses notation too, and he will and does listen to actual music and then tells me where the tab is wrong or even, sometimes, how I am playing it incorrectly. He does listen and his ear is better than mine. He is learning the subtleties, he is learning what he hopes will be his trade - YOU CAN'T JUST GOOGLE IT - he is serving his time.

You're correct that the quality of instruments, especially guitars and basses has improved dramatically. But my first bass (I was 22) was a nine-years-old Hofner Artist that cost me more than a week's wages then. It was nowhere near as good as what you'd get for more than a week's wages now. But, really, you can't blame the young people of today for the improvements in guitar manufacture.

But I don't want you to think this is just about my son, because it's about many young musicians. I go to the concerts at his school (which is an ordinary state secondary although with a specialism in music) and the breadth and depth of talent is extraordinary. Not just in pop and rock but in classical, latin, jazz, gospel, rap, drum & bass, choral, etc. And at the out-of-school gigs he does, there's are lots of talented players and singers. Sure, there are less talented kids too but when was that any different? Never.

And anyway I really cannot see how you think carrying your amp a mile makes someone a better musician than someone who is fortunate enough to get a lift.

YOU CAN'T JUST GOOGLE IT.

Rant over.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='LWTAIT' post='466247' date='Apr 18 2009, 05:15 PM']sorry, but if we don't have cars and are taking gear to a gig, and have willing parent's, doesn't it make sense for our parent's to take us to the gig? and if our parents know what they're doing, why shouldn't they help out? what's the point in getting the bus then walking 6 miles or whatever else you claim you used to do, when my dad's perfectly willing to take me? and how often do you honestly see the kid doing nothing at all, just standing around looking vaguely interested? i've never seen it, the teenagers tend to do something, even if its just learning how to do it for the future.

another thing i'd like to add is how do you lot who are saying "kids only want to be as good as they need to be to get a record deal", know that thats what the kids want? if you came to see me at a gig, you'd probably think i only want to be as good as i have to be to get a record deal, but thats part of being in a band - playing as a band, giving each other room to do what they want, it's not a competition to see who can look most skilled on stage, its about playing songs. songs, not bass solos. if you saw me practising, i can play a lot more and a lot flashier than i do when im on stage, but that doesn't sound right.

also, how many of you oldies play in bands where you write music that is both enjoyable to listen to, and is complicated or different? i thought not, the public don't want to listen to a bunch of oldies playing wierd scales that don't quite sound right. they want to listen to catchy rythms o songs that make them feel something.

and my last point is that i could easily name a few bands that were terrible when you old people were young, the sex pistols are the first that srping to mind (i just wanna say that i mean terrible as instrumentalists, i actually quite like the sex pistols' music). are you really telling me that music today is even more basic and has lower standards than those of the sex pistols?[/quote]

And +1 on that.

[funkypenguin]

[quote name='LWTAIT' post='466394' date='Apr 18 2009, 09:44 PM']the rolling stones dont count.

on a more serious note, you didn't quote the whole sentence there, you took it out of context, to make it sound like im arguing something different than i am. i said the public dont want to listen to oldies playing wierd scales that dont sound right, which they dont, not that they dont want to listen to oldies. i suppose your eyesight just isn't what it used to be though [/quote]

I think you're being a little short sighted in saying 'wierd' scales dont sound right. you can integrate all sorts of alternative scales into accessible music (modes, jazz scales, etc.) without it sounding 'wierd', jazzy, proggy or anything like that. a friend of mine managed to put all 7 major modes into the same song and it sounded fantastic. its using them in context and in a musical way thats the trick.

going back to the point about kids playing to get a record deal. for many young bands this is their objective, and they hone their sound/style/image to suit. If you look at the musicians that are coming through in mainstream bands today and comparing them to some of the musicians that emerged 20 years ago, i would say there is gulf in ability, both musically and technically. Changing tastes aside, i would certainly say that the level has dropped significantly. the abundance of material on the internet makes it far easier to learn an instrument so instrumentalists dont have to work as hard for their knowledge/facility. Its my opinion (and ONLY an opinion) that many young musicians dont practice enough and dont push themselves.

as for the bit about music today not being as bad/basic as the pistols....i see/hear some bands and wonder....when they are making elementary errors such as being out of tune/not in the same key, it speaks for itself.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='funkypenguin' post='466489' date='Apr 19 2009, 01:48 AM']Its my opinion (and ONLY an opinion) that many young musicians dont practice enough and dont push themselves.[/quote]

And when in history was that not true.

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='funkypenguin' post='466489' date='Apr 19 2009, 01:48 AM']the abundance of material on the internet makes it far easier to learn an instrument so instrumentalists dont have to work as hard for their knowledge/facility.[/quote]

Acquiring and assimilating knowledge with greater ease and convenience is surely a good thing. What are they suppose to do - ignore it? Walk ten miles to school everyday rather than take the bus or accept a lift? (Me, I lived in a septic tank at the bottom of a lake. Tell young people that...)

[quote name='funkypenguin' post='466489' date='Apr 19 2009, 01:48 AM']Its my opinion (and ONLY an opinion) that many young musicians dont practice enough and dont push themselves.[/quote]

That's a fault which is by no means exclusive to younger musicians. Even rarer in my experience is the older musician who practices enough and pushes themselves.

God, I envy the energy and commitment that the young put into their music, whatever their motivation for so doing. How many of us Old Bobs strapped on a guitar to explore 'modes'? We (mostly) did it to get looked at and get laid. If anything, I see more commitment to musicality today, rather than less.

[quote name='funkypenguin' post='466489' date='Apr 19 2009, 01:48 AM']as for the bit about music today not being as bad/basic as the pistols....i see/hear some bands and wonder....when they are making elementary errors such as being out of tune/not in the same key, it speaks for itself.[/quote]

These errors are gigantically obviously by no means exclusive to younger musicians. They may make 'mistakes' and they may be inexperienced and they may still be learning their craft, but I'd rather they were making mistakes on a real bass than on a Guitar Hero Controller.

And, given the plethora of cheap electronic tuners and better constructed instruments, I suspect more bands today are in tune at concert pitch than 20 years ago.

A few months ago, I replied to a post by a young musician who was bitching about 'old guys slagging off the young' and assured them I hadn't seen much of that. Clearly I was wrong.

I intend no personal disrespect or offence when I say I find certain propositions as I've read here to be unsubstantiated, anecdotal and unhelpful in that they rarely propose a solution. Beyond that, I see no benefit to our community in marginalising the players who will be making music while oldies like me are being helped off the bed-pan.

Edited April 19, 2009 by skankdelvar

[YouMa]

[quote name='LWTAIT' post='466247' date='Apr 18 2009, 05:15 PM']sorry, but if we don't have cars and are taking gear to a gig, and have willing parent's, doesn't it make sense for our parent's to take us to the gig? and if our parents know what they're doing, why shouldn't they help out? what's the point in getting the bus then walking 6 miles or whatever else you claim you used to do, when my dad's perfectly willing to take me? and how often do you honestly see the kid doing nothing at all, just standing around looking vaguely interested? i've never seen it, the teenagers tend to do something, even if its just learning how to do it for the future.

another thing i'd like to add is how do you lot who are saying "kids only want to be as good as they need to be to get a record deal", know that thats what the kids want? if you came to see me at a gig, you'd probably think i only want to be as good as i have to be to get a record deal, but thats part of being in a band - playing as a band, giving each other room to do what they want, it's not a competition to see who can look most skilled on stage, its about playing songs. songs, not bass solos. if you saw me practising, i can play a lot more and a lot flashier than i do when im on stage, but that doesn't sound right.

also, how many of you oldies play in bands where you write music that is both enjoyable to listen to, and is complicated or different? i thought not, the public don't want to listen to a bunch of oldies playing wierd scales that don't quite sound right. they want to listen to catchy rythms o songs that make them feel something.

and my last point is that i could easily name a few bands that were terrible when you old people were young, the sex pistols are the first that srping to mind (i just wanna say that i mean terrible as instrumentalists, i actually quite like the sex pistols' music). are you really telling me that music today is even more basic and has lower standards than those of the sex pistols?[/quote]

f*** off! Steve jones was tight as a catholic girls chuff!

[Zoe_BillySheehan]

[quote name='YouMa' post='466511' date='Apr 19 2009, 02:41 AM']f*** off! Steve jones was tight as a catholic girls chuff![/quote]

+1

I love the pistols,
and if you listen to songs other than the obvious few, you realize that there musical abilities are WELL underrated!
and saying that... i mean minus Sid.

Z
x

[EssentialTension]

Chris Spedding who produced the first Sex Pistols demo thought they could play (minus Sid). He claims his demos were remixed to make it sound as if they couldn't play:

Quote:
Spedding explains,
They are not the same mixes that I did. Dave Goodman, the other producer besides Chris Thomas, went in and re-did them and added a lot of echo to them and added stuff to them. So they'd been marketed as the Spedding tapes, but they are not really my mixes. The mixes I did sound better.
I'm quite proud of the Sex Pistols demos, especially when compared to their other later recordings. On my demos you can hear everything quite clearly - the bass and drums are really audible plus you can actually hear what the rhythm and lead guitars are doing.
Part of why they (McLaren and the Pistols) didn't like my demo was that because I like R&B, I highlighted their rhythm tracks with a big bass drum and bass aound, particularly because Matlock had some intensely played bass runs. They wanted a guitar soup. I think that whenever you've got an interesting rhythm section like that, a band sounds like they can actually play, and since that was the whole point of my demo - to prove they could play - that's what I pushed. When you have a guitar soup, which is what the demo they recorded later sounds like, you have to face the fact that someone's trying to cover up the fact that they can't play. And that's what McLaren wanted people to think that they couldn't play, that was just an idea, a way of making all this anarchy stuff happen. [url="http://www.chrisspedding.com/session/sp/sp.htm"]Source here[/url]
Unquote

[Zoe_BillySheehan]

[quote name='EssentialTension' post='466561' date='Apr 19 2009, 09:52 AM']Chris Spedding who produced the first Sex Pistols demo thought they could play (minus Sid). He claims his demos were remixed to make it sound as if they couldn't play:

Quote:
Spedding explains,
They are not the same mixes that I did. Dave Goodman, the other producer besides Chris Thomas, went in and re-did them and added a lot of echo to them and added stuff to them. So they'd been marketed as the Spedding tapes, but they are not really my mixes. The mixes I did sound better.
I'm quite proud of the Sex Pistols demos, especially when compared to their other later recordings. On my demos you can hear everything quite clearly - the bass and drums are really audible plus you can actually hear what the rhythm and lead guitars are doing.
Part of why they (McLaren and the Pistols) didn't like my demo was that because I like R&B, I highlighted their rhythm tracks with a big bass drum and bass aound, particularly because Matlock had some intensely played bass runs. They wanted a guitar soup. I think that whenever you've got an interesting rhythm section like that, a band sounds like they can actually play, and since that was the whole point of my demo - to prove they could play - that's what I pushed. When you have a guitar soup, which is what the demo they recorded later sounds like, you have to face the fact that someone's trying to cover up the fact that they can't play. And that's what McLaren wanted people to think that they couldn't play, that was just an idea, a way of making all this anarchy stuff happen. [url="http://www.chrisspedding.com/session/sp/sp.htm"]Source here[/url]
Unquote[/quote]

Hey,
never read that heard or read that before, thats great!

Z
x

[escholl]

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='466510' date='Apr 19 2009, 02:40 AM']I intend no personal disrespect or offence when I say I find certain propositions as I've read here to be unsubstantiated, anecdotal and unhelpful in that they rarely propose a solution. Beyond that, I see no benefit to our community in marginalising the players who will be making music while oldies like me are being helped off the bed-pan.[/quote]

+1000

looking at it from a completely non-nostalgic point of view, it would seem to be that far from being worse than the previous generation, this generation today is likely to be just as good if not better, given the number of advancements in their favor. there will always be bands who are terrible but there will always be very many who are very very good too.

[RhysP]

[quote name='ARGH' post='449134' date='Mar 30 2009, 12:33 AM']Its not often I hear a REALLY strong lp these days.....All killer ,no filler...[/quote]
That's because with the advent of digital media (CDs & beyond) more time became available to put more music on, so the critical editing process that picked the best tracks to go onto an LP disappeared.
Some of my favourite albums from the 70s are only 35-40 minutes long, but are stronger because of that. If a band now has 15 songs they all go on the CD, regardless of quality, rather than having to pick the best 10.
How many times has a classic album been re-released on CD with a bunch of extra tracks that were recorded at the original sessions that turn out to be sh*t? That's why those extra songs didn't make it onto the original album in the first place.

The argument about declining playing standards has been going on for decades, and it is one that as musicians I think we place too much emphasis on. The general listening public just want something they connect with, and whether it has 2 or 200 chords in it is largely irrelevant. It's very difficult, as someone who is passionate about music, to fully understand just how unimportant music is to the majority of people. They're certainly not at all bothered about the technical proficiency of the members of the band, least of all the bass player!

There's great music made by people who possess, in some peoples minds, no "musical" ability whatsoever (there are thousands of musicians, jazzers notwithstanding, who have had long and successful careers without knowing the first thing about theory, harmony, modes or whatever), and there are also some phenomenally talented musicians whose music, quite frankly, bores me to tears.

[andy67]

morning folks,

great debate this has turned into!!

I think music from all is great! People are still learning, perfecting, writing and performing while still getting involved in petty; my musics better than yours, kids these days, it was never like this in my day, etc...etc..

I really think it is fantastic! Music still has the passion and power to generate such trivial matters producing balanced and unbalanced views from players and performers of all walks.

Yes technology has made things easier and the craft is no longer elitist nor time served - unfortunate but true! But the benefits are there in terms of studio availability and in home use for the self sustaining musician. I don't see taking the industry out of the equation as a bad thing because musicians/artists will be/are now in control of their own destiny and income - it will mean though greater effort and responsibility will be put on the shoulder's of up and coming bands and artists to make sure their business venture/model persists and is sustainable almost like being self employed. However, they will generate income by learning and experiencing real life decision making for themselves when the impact of such decisions affects their financial needs.

For me the music industry has always been the middle man taking the largest cut of the profits while leaving musicians and artists heavily in-debt and making very little out of their commitment and contribution.

Technology has contributed massively in allowing/enabling musicians/artists to release a product of decent quality without the £0.5million attached to it. This is a good thing although I can see the master craftsman point of view and duly respect it.

I will say this though, it took several hundred thousand record sales to get to number one in the seventies and up to the mid eighties...now it is only a few thousand.

The kids are alright, they do have it a lot easier than most of us did here but times really were so different and much less affordable [i][b]quote: Russ - (my first bass was a plywood POS called an "Axe", and the guitarist in my first band played a god-awful Marlin - I'd have killed for something as good as a Shine, SX or modern Squier back then)[/b][/i] absolutely!! my first bass was a Kay bass coupled with a Carlsbro Hornet and I also would have killed to have been able to get a Yamaha RBX170 and an Ashdown Combo! but we respected what little we had and made the best of it. Lets not bring the kids down for having more choices than we did and the ability to do it all by using technology to achieve it.

I have put aside a Gibson SG and a Marshall JCM900 combo for my son when he gets there and I also can't wait to be involved (in the background) when any one of them gig or record.

Music is the greatest thing ever and we - the oldies - have an obligation to pass on our skills and experience eventually passing the torch as well!

Edited April 19, 2009 by andy67

[Tait]

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='466510' date='Apr 19 2009, 02:40 AM']Acquiring and assimilating knowledge with greater ease and convenience is surely a good thing. What are they suppose to do - ignore it? Walk ten miles to school everyday rather than take the bus or accept a lift? (Me, I lived in a septic tank at the bottom of a lake. Tell young people that...)



That's a fault which is by no means exclusive to younger musicians. Even rarer in my experience is the older musician who practices enough and pushes themselves.

God, I envy the energy and commitment that the young put into their music, whatever their motivation for so doing. How many of us Old Bobs strapped on a guitar to explore 'modes'? We (mostly) did it to get looked at and get laid. If anything, I see more commitment to musicality today, rather than less.



These errors are gigantically obviously by no means exclusive to younger musicians. They may make 'mistakes' and they may be inexperienced and they may still be learning their craft, but I'd rather they were making mistakes on a real bass than on a Guitar Hero Controller.

And, given the plethora of cheap electronic tuners and better constructed instruments, I suspect more bands today are in tune at concert pitch than 20 years ago.

A few months ago, I replied to a post by a young musician who was bitching about 'old guys slagging off the young' and assured them I hadn't seen much of that. Clearly I was wrong.

I intend no personal disrespect or offence when I say I find certain propositions as I've read here to be unsubstantiated, anecdotal and unhelpful in that they rarely propose a solution. Beyond that, I see no benefit to our community in marginalising the players who will be making music while oldies like me are being helped off the bed-pan.[/quote]

+1

I really can't what everyone's problem with it being "easier" is. Do you do everything you do in the most difficult way possible? If we CAN make life easier for ourselves, we will. No point doing it the hard way.

[quote name='EssentialTension' post='466561' date='Apr 19 2009, 09:52 AM']Chris Spedding who produced the first Sex Pistols demo thought they could play (minus Sid). He claims his demos were remixed to make it sound as if they couldn't play:

Quote:
Spedding explains,
They are not the same mixes that I did. Dave Goodman, the other producer besides Chris Thomas, went in and re-did them and added a lot of echo to them and added stuff to them. So they'd been marketed as the Spedding tapes, but they are not really my mixes. The mixes I did sound better.
I'm quite proud of the Sex Pistols demos, especially when compared to their other later recordings. On my demos you can hear everything quite clearly - the bass and drums are really audible plus you can actually hear what the rhythm and lead guitars are doing.
Part of why they (McLaren and the Pistols) didn't like my demo was that because I like R&B, I highlighted their rhythm tracks with a big bass drum and bass aound, particularly because Matlock had some intensely played bass runs. They wanted a guitar soup. I think that whenever you've got an interesting rhythm section like that, a band sounds like they can actually play, and since that was the whole point of my demo - to prove they could play - that's what I pushed. When you have a guitar soup, which is what the demo they recorded later sounds like, you have to face the fact that someone's trying to cover up the fact that they can't play. And that's what McLaren wanted people to think that they couldn't play, that was just an idea, a way of making all this anarchy stuff happen. [url="http://www.chrisspedding.com/session/sp/sp.htm"]Source here[/url]
Unquote[/quote]

I've never read that before. The Sex Pistols were just the first example that popped into my head, I didn't mean it as an attack on them in particular. And, yeah, Glen Matlock's a pretty good bass player, I'll admit.

But most bands as big as the Sex Pistols were in those days - as in, you can buy their albums in shops, if you ask around their TMG (i dunno if the term TMG applies to music, but you know what i mean) most of them will have heard of them etc. - don't make the mistakes that people were moaning about, such as being out of tune. They have technicians and people to do that for them, for a start. And it's not difficult to get a cheap electric tuner that does the job. It's only amature bands that are out of tune, or make most of the mistakes. And the Sex Pistols weren't exactly an amature band.

Old people, eh. If theyre not moaning about ERB's then they're doing their "youth of today" speech.

EDIT: oh, and good post andy67.

Edited April 19, 2009 by LWTAIT

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='LWTAIT' post='466673' date='Apr 19 2009, 12:33 PM']I've never read that before. The Sex Pistols were just the first example that popped into my head, I didn't mean it as an attack on them in particular. And, yeah, Glen Matlock's a pretty good bass player, I'll admit.[/quote]

I didn't mean to be criticising your point LW. To be honest I'd always assumed the Pistols couldn't really play and that Spedding didn't just produce it but also played the guitar parts in the studio, with other session guys. I found the quotation when I was trying to establish that he did play the guitar parts. It looks like I was wrong.

[quote name='LWTAIT' post='466673' date='Apr 19 2009, 12:33 PM']Old people, eh. If theyre not moaning about ERB's then they're doing their "youth of today" speech.[/quote]

Not all of us, I'm 57. Most of the moans about 'youth of today' that I've heard in this and other threads I've been hearing ever since I was a teenager. They were wrong then and they are wrong now (IMNSHO). Mind you, I don't quite get the ERB thing - however old the person playing it is.

Edited April 19, 2009 by EssentialTension

[Tait]

[quote name='EssentialTension' post='466702' date='Apr 19 2009, 01:09 PM']I didn't mean to be criticising your point LW. To be honest I'd always assumed the Pistols couldn't really play and that Spedding didn't just produce it but also played the guitar parts in the studio, with other session guys. I found the quotation when I was trying to establish that he did play the guitar parts. It looks like I was wrong.


Not all of us, I'm 57. Most of the moans about 'youth of today' that I've heard in this and other threads I've been hearing ever since I was a teenager. They were wrong then and they are wrong now (IMNSHO). Mind you, I don't quite get the ERB thing - however old the person playing it is.[/quote]

sure, i know you weren't critisicing my point, i was just saying that i hadn't read that and i hadn't put much thought into the band i said, just the first example that popped into my head. turns out i was wrong in that instance, the Sex Pistols could play, or at least according to Spedding.

and the whole ERB thing was a joke, i won't even play a 5 string, never mind an ERB.

oh, and please don't call me LW call me Tait, thats what most of people call me. I might get the mods to change my username to Tait sometime, it's easier to say for a start.

Edited April 19, 2009 by LWTAIT

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='LWTAIT' post='466715' date='Apr 19 2009, 01:43 PM']and the whole ERB thing was a joke, i won't even play a 5 string, never mind an ERB.[/quote]

Good. Me too.

[quote name='LWTAIT' post='466715' date='Apr 19 2009, 01:43 PM']oh, and please don't call me LW call me Tait, thats what most of people call me. I might get the mods to change my username to Tait sometime, it's easier to say for a start.[/quote]

Tait it is, you can call me ET or Dave or 'Oi, you'.

[Rich]

[quote name='LWTAIT' post='466394' date='Apr 18 2009, 09:44 PM']the rolling stones dont count.[/quote]
The only thing I would ever use the Stones as an example of is 'How To Be Utter Crap* And Still Get Paid Shedloads'.

[quote]i said the public dont want to listen to oldies playing wierd scales that dont sound right, which they dont, not that they dont want to listen to oldies.[/quote]
Why does it necessarily have to be oldies playing weird scales? Is that any worse than youngies playing weird scales?

[quote]i suppose your eyesight just isn't what it used to be though [/quote]
Better than 20/20 in both eyes, thanks and after all these years of staring at monitors & drawing boards for a living too. Thank god at least part of me still works properly

[size=1]* purely MHO of course.[/size]

[Tait]

[quote name='Rich' post='467023' date='Apr 19 2009, 09:28 PM']The only thing I would ever use the Stones as an example of is 'How To Be Utter Crap And Still Get Paid Shedloads'. [/quote]

haha i'm with you there, but for some reason a lo of people still want to listen to them.

[quote name='Rich' post='467023' date='Apr 19 2009, 09:28 PM']Why does it necessarily have to be oldies playing weird scales? Is that any worse than youngies playing weird scales?[/quote]

not at all, but the point of this thread was that youngies DON'T play anything complicated, that we aren't as good as the old people were back in their day etc. etc. and all i'm saying is, that what's the point in us playing anything wierd when the public don't want to listen to that? so you oldies can go and play it if you want, but don't moan that we don't, because the general public don't want to listen to that wierd, complex musical theorey rubbish.

[quote name='Rich' post='467023' date='Apr 19 2009, 09:28 PM']20/20 in both eyes, thanks and after all these years of staring at monitors & drawing boards for a living too. Thank god at least part of me still works properly [/quote]