Future Impact v3 and now V4

[prowla]

2 hours ago, GisserD said:

So you ask a question, don't like the answer and give 0/10 for customer support.

Nice.

Technical issue, not covered in documentation (in fact docs suggest their numbering starts at 1) or pre-sales, suggested a fix, bluntly told it's not their problem, 0/10.

Not nice.

But anyway - I only mentioned it because there had been an assertion that there had been no complaints.

Your responses seem a bit aggressive: "it was your misunderstanding and inability to understand what actually was going" and a sarcastic "Nice".

[GisserD]

43 minutes ago, prowla said:

Your responses seem a bit aggressive: "it was your misunderstanding and inability to understand what actually was going" and a sarcastic "Nice".

 

I think you are a troll. Dredging up negativity to get a reaction, and spread misinformation that suits your personal narrative. 

[Quatschmacher]

42 minutes ago, prowla said:

Technical issue, not covered in documentation (in fact docs suggest their numbering starts at 1) or pre-sales, suggested a fix, bluntly told it's not their problem, 0/10.

Not nice.

But anyway - I only mentioned it because there had been an assertion that there had been no complaints.

Your responses seem a bit aggressive: "it was your misunderstanding and inability to understand what actually was going" and a sarcastic "Nice".

As it has always been, it is in the manual (though I will see if I can make it less open to misinterpretation). As it states, (Actual) PC 1 recalls preset slot 1. The potential confusion arises in that PC0 is not assigned to anything, but no off-by-1 error, which MIDI monitoring software will verify.

 

I’m not going to belabour this any further as I’ve got recovery to do.

[prowla]

24 minutes ago, Quatschmacher said:

As it has always been, it is in the manual (though I will see if I can make it less open to misinterpretation). As it states, (Actual) PC 1 recalls preset slot 1. The potential confusion arises in that PC0 is not assigned to anything, but no off-by-1 error, which MIDI monitoring software will verify.

 

I’m not going to belabour this any further as I’ve got recovery to do.

 

Yep - that's it; the Program Change says it does 1-99, which lends itself to the interpretation that it uses the 1-128 numbering convention.

It would be good at a minimum to mention that it's using 0-127 but 0 is unused.

Now, the "off-by-one" is a known issue in MIDI; according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_MIDI:

• In MIDI, the instrument sound or "program" for each of the 16 possible MIDI channels is selected with the Program Change message, which has a Program Number parameter. The following table shows which instrument sound corresponds to each of the 128 possible GM Program Numbers.[3] There are 128 program numbers. The numbers can be displayed as values 1 to 128, or, alternatively, as 0 to 127. The 0 to 127 numbering is usually only used internally by the synthesizer; the vast majority of MIDI devices, digital audio workstations and professional MIDI sequencers display these Program Numbers as shown in the table (1–128).

In other words, the 1-128 convention is supposed to be akin to the real world (ie. you don't stand in the 0th position in a queue, you're not the 0th person to cross the line in a race), whereas the 0-127 one reflects the underlying digital  implementation (ie. the 8-bit registers within the device).

That wiki page says that the "vast majority" of products display 1-128; by that, the FI doesn't align with the "vast majority" of products and it doesn't have an option to change it.

Some better products (eg. the MIDIMan I mentioned earlier) recognise the dichotomy and have a switch to choose.

 

According to this GM2 wiki page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_MIDI_Level_2, the patches are numbered 1-128.

The issue with the FI is that it's surfaced the underlying implementation 0-127 numbering to the UI, but then the docs suggest the numbering starts at 1.

It's only when you try and use it with other equipment that the mismatch is revealed.

 

Anyway, I only spoke up because I happened upon the thead at a point where the assertion being made that nobody had any issues with the FI; I ditched the product and it's not my problem anymore.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Quatschmacher]

Getting close now. Finished the user manual updates today…

[Quatschmacher]

I just realised that some polyphonic playing is actually possible with the new FI firmware: if you play an external polyphonic synth and set its release time to be somewhat longer, then it is possible to play an arpeggiated line and have the notes overlap! This is really quite cool. (You do still have to play the line monophonically as usual for it to work though.)

 

Bit rough but shows the idea:

 

Edited October 14 by Quatschmacher

[Quatschmacher]

Hopefully this can now be put to rest…

[Quatschmacher]

New manual is ready:

 

FI User Guide v4.11.pdf

Edited October 15 by Quatschmacher

[Quatschmacher]

New firmware, editor and factory soundset is now available!
 

https://www.pandamidi.com/support

[Marti T]

just want to say thank you so much, upgraded to to 4,11 via mac yesterday in 10 mins and after a few failed attempts all was good.

 

New presets are a deffo improvement for people looking to plug and play and ditch a keyboard player treading on out territory - particularly the DI presets  in, I think bank 3

 

I got v4  a month ago - not got beyond p40 of the(well written 😁) manual yet or dabbled with editor but very excited about experimenting and learning how to use this and adapt into my set up

- currently investigating splitting signal in HX stomp and merging with clean bass tone,  which seems  to work well for the some of the more extreme  sounds. The Di type presets seem better by themselves. 

 

My only initial complaint is the inability to easily switch between presets - ok to go up but not easy to go down on the pedal itself? Double click don't work for me = older person, slow!

 

I have a few days off work next week and will be delving into the editor.

 

My only previous synth experience was with  a mini moog in the early 90s- I lost a year down a psychedelic rabbit hole. Here I go again...

 

 

 

[Quatschmacher]

14 minutes ago, Marti T said:

just want to say thank you so much, upgraded to to 4,11 via mac yesterday in 10 mins and after a few failed attempts all was good.

 

New presets are a deffo improvement for people looking to plug and play and ditch a keyboard player treading on out territory - particularly the DI presets  in, I think bank 3

 

I got v4  a month ago - not got beyond p40 of the(well written 😁) manual yet or dabbled with editor but very excited about experimenting and learning how to use this and adapt into my set up

- currently investigating splitting signal in HX stomp and merging with clean bass tone,  which seems  to work well for the some of the more extreme  sounds. The Di type presets seem better by themselves. 

 

My only initial complaint is the inability to easily switch between presets - ok to go up but not easy to go down on the pedal itself? Double click don't work for me = older person, slow!

 

I have a few days off work next week and will be delving into the editor.

 

My only previous synth experience was with  a mini moog in the early 90s- I lost a year down a psychedelic rabbit hole. Here I go again...

 

 

 

Definitely get hooked up to the editor. There are loads more sounds I shared in the cloud.

 

Try patch 86 for a classic MM-type bass sound.

 

You can double-click and hold to quickly scroll down patches. Or click and turn the encoder to scroll through banks, then you’re only a few presses away from whatever preset you want, and can do that using up only. Or hook up a MIDI controller or Panda’s 4Control with a couple of footswitches.

 

Glad you find the manual well-written; I’ve put many hundreds of hours into that since 2019, refining it each time. 

Edited October 18 by Quatschmacher

[Quatschmacher]

Windows editor v4.12 is up which fixes the MIDI tab refresh bug that was present in v4.11.

[Quatschmacher]

4 hours ago, Quatschmacher said:

Windows editor v4.12 is up which fixes the MIDI tab refresh bug that was present in v4.11.

Seems to be an error with the download showing as “insecure”. I’ve reported it. 

[jefbyos]

Hi there

 

I've updated FI with latest firmware 4.11 to enable Midi Out to drive synth. I'm really happy, this is a great addition to this already wonderful pedal !

 

However I face another MIDI related issue. I use a BOSS MS-3 to change the programs on the FI (set CH1), and a Source Audio C4 connected from the FI output (set as CH2). FI works but I have hard time make the C4 follow PC instructions... Here some observations:

- Midi Thru is enabled,
- C4 is working flawlessly when connected direct from MS-3

- Oddly enough, when in GLB mode, C4 is responding to PC changes as it should in CH2 from MS-3...

Any idea why that is ?

[Quatschmacher]

1 hour ago, jefbyos said:

Hi there

 

I've updated FI with latest firmware 4.11 to enable Midi Out to drive synth. I'm really happy, this is a great addition to this already wonderful pedal !

 

However I face another MIDI related issue. I use a BOSS MS-3 to change the programs on the FI (set CH1), and a Source Audio C4 connected from the FI output (set as CH2). FI works but I have hard time make the C4 follow PC instructions... Here some observations:

- Midi Thru is enabled,
- C4 is working flawlessly when connected direct from MS-3

- Oddly enough, when in GLB mode, C4 is responding to PC changes as it should in CH2 from MS-3...

Any idea why that is ?

C4 doesn’t respond directly to PC messages via the control input port; there are dedicated CCs for program changes (see the MIDI map in the c4 editor). The only way to have older SA pedals respond to MIDI PC is by connecting them to their Hub (or USB MIDI, which FI cannot supply).

 

Please also read the FI manual sections on “MIDI triggering”, “external MIDI tab”, “midi thru” and “program change out” for clarification on how PC messages behave when using the FI’s new MIDI note feature. 

Edited November 3 by Quatschmacher

[jefbyos]

On 03/11/2024 at 13:46, Quatschmacher said:

C4 doesn’t respond directly to PC messages via the control input port; there are dedicated CCs for program changes (see the MIDI map in the c4 editor). The only way to have older SA pedals respond to MIDI PC is by connecting them to their Hub (or USB MIDI, which FI cannot supply).

 

Please also read the FI manual sections on “MIDI triggering”, “external MIDI tab”, “midi thru” and “program change out” for clarification on how PC messages behave when using the FI’s new MIDI note feature. 

Thanks for the reply.

 

Actually I'm using a One midi Adapter connected to the Control input jack, Which i believe is similar to their hub ?

 

What is suprising is that the MIDI PC change work in direct connection from MS-3, and also though FI while in GLB mode, but not while in normal mode. Which used to work with previous Firmware, which led me to believe this was caused by the upgrade.

Also, i am considering using the Midi Through from the One Midi Adapter to go to the Fi (to empty the midi out for external Midi triggering). I just need to get a Din-jack extra cable to try this, i'll let you know.

[Quatschmacher]

37 minutes ago, jefbyos said:

Thanks for the reply.

 

Actually I'm using a One midi Adapter connected to the Control input jack, Which i believe is similar to their hub ?

 

What is suprising is that the MIDI PC change work in direct connection from MS-3, and also though FI while in GLB mode, but not while in normal mode. Which used to work with previous Firmware, which led me to believe this was caused by the upgrade.

Also, i am considering using the Midi Through from the One Midi Adapter to go to the Fi (to empty the midi out for external Midi triggering). I just need to get a Din-jack extra cable to try this, i'll let you know.

As said, please read the manual sections I mentioned as they do explain how MIDI works after the new firmware (it isn’t broken, it just work a bit differently).

[jefbyos]

So what you're saying is that the MIDI OUT parameter affect all PC messages on all channels, even the other than the one the FI is set ?

 

Isn't this weird ?

[Quatschmacher]

14 minutes ago, jefbyos said:

So what you're saying is that the MIDI OUT parameter affect all PC messages on all channels, even the other than the one the FI is set ?

 

Isn't this weird ?

No, I’m saying what it says in the manual. Please read the sections i mentioned.

 

MIDI messages on other channels are passed on as normal (providing MIDI thru is enabled). 

Edited November 4 by Quatschmacher

[jefbyos]

I confirm i read, and re-read these sections. I'm a RTFM kind of guy. Doesn't mean i understand all and everything, though

 

So if you confirm my problem is not related to these new functionalities, because PC are sent on a different channel for each pedals and FI is supposed to forward PC message on other channels and not block them, then it's an unexpected behaviour.

I can add that the programs have been created with FI V4 so maybe it's something that can occur using old preset sounds, and that is not supposed to happen with new sounds ?

Edited November 5 by jefbyos

[Quatschmacher]

1 hour ago, jefbyos said:

I confirm i read, and re-read these sections. I'm a RTFM kind of guy. Doesn't mean i understand all and everything, though

 

So if you confirm my problem is not related to these new functionalities, because PC are sent on a different channel for each pedals and FI is supposed to forward PC message on other channels and not block them, then it's an unexpected behaviour.

I can add that the programs have been created with FI V4 so maybe it's something that can occur using old preset sounds, and that is not supposed to happen with new sounds ?

If MIDI thru is on in the FI, then all PCs on other channels should be getting sent through. (Make sure MIDI thru is enabled in the global menu; it is disabled by default.)

 

Is that not happening? If not, what MIDI channel is the FI set to? Does it make any difference whether the FI is engaged or bypassed?

 

what device are you using to send the (non-FI) PC messages to the FI?

 

I did some testing last week and found it was working as expected but I think my FI was set to channel 1. I’ll take a look at some other settings.

Edited November 5 by Quatschmacher

[jefbyos]

50 minutes ago, Quatschmacher said:

If MIDI thru is on in the FI, then all PCs on other channels should be getting sent through. (Make sure MIDI thru is enabled in the global menu; it is disabled by default.)

It is.

 

51 minutes ago, Quatschmacher said:

If not, what MIDI channel is the FI set to?

CH1

 

51 minutes ago, Quatschmacher said:

IDoes it make any difference whether the FI is engaged or bypassed?

Engaged/disengaged = no PC on CH2

In GLOBAL = PC ok on CH2

 

53 minutes ago, Quatschmacher said:

what device are you using to send the (non-FI) PC messages to the FI?

All PC messages are sent by a BOSS MS-3.

 

CH1 to FI

CH2 to C4

 

Different PC message this is why i use Different channel, each pedal being recalled different program number while recalling a preset on MS-3.

[Quatschmacher]

13 minutes ago, jefbyos said:

It is.

 

CH1

 

Engaged/disengaged = no PC on CH2

In GLOBAL = PC ok on CH2

 

All PC messages are sent by a BOSS MS-3.

 

CH1 to FI

CH2 to C4

 

Different PC message this is why i use Different channel, each pedal being recalled different program number while recalling a preset on MS-3.

Thanks, I’ve actually just been and checked this and you are right. Though CCs are all being passed through correctly on other channels, PCs aren’t.

 

Thanks for drawing my attention to this. I’ll report it and get it fixed.

[jefbyos]

Thank you Quatschmacher.

As for me, some news and information here : I use now the Midi thru from SA ONE MIDI ADAPTER to FI and it's working flawlessly (i've bought CME extra-thin, Din to Jack Type A cables, they're great for cluttered pedalboards !)

I did this also to get the MIDI out from Fi free so i can connect an external synth, sometimes in the future. But again i hope me reporting the PC issue proves useful to you and other users

Edited November 9 by jefbyos

[jefbyos]

Hello Quatschmacher and team

 

Another issue i would like to report (maybe you already have the solution!).

I would like to use a sequencer to make the edition of sounds easier (no need to handle bass or play a keyboard to hear a sound make the process a lot faster).

So i use a virtual midi cable (loopbe1) to patch the MIDI out of CUBASE 13 to the midi keyboard input of FI editor. However, this makes FI editor unstable at times, it may freeze and quit occasionally, and when i re-open, i have to redo the MIDI port selection : FI input device is deselected, and when i re-select it (it's my audio interface MIDI port, a ZOOM UAC-8), then it quits immediately. I have to reboot my computer to make it work again.

I'm not particularily stuck to cubase for this, neither LoopBE1, so if you have lighter alternative just to program a couple of notes i loop, i'll gladly give a try.