Future Impact v3 and now V4

[Quatschmacher]

11 minutes ago, stewblack said:

I have ordered a couple of 5 pin din leads (or at least they look like the old 5 pds we used to use) as that's the only cable I could see looked like it would join the midi interface to the pedal. Which I assume is what happens. 

@prowla you were quite correct the unit came with nothing at all, luckily enough the type of USB cable looks to be the standard USB type A to USB type B, of which I have many.

The reason I asked was to order the correct stuff before the pedal and interface arrived. But never mind I'll just wait for the postman. 

Some interesting squeaks and honks coming out of the machine though. Hopefully I will be able to suss it all out once I'm joined up and can use the software. 

By honks and squeaks, do you mean it’s not behaving as you’d expect? The pedal should be useable as is.

[Kiwi]

12 minutes ago, Quatschmacher said:

By honks and squeaks, do you mean it’s not behaving as you’d expect? The pedal should be useable as is.

Mine honked and squeaked after the firmware update didn't install properly.  lol

[prowla]

@stewblack The 5-pin DIN leads are MIDI ones, not audio, right?

(The wiring is different.)

Edited April 27, 2020 by prowla

[stewblack]

1 hour ago, prowla said:

@stewblack The 5-pin DIN leads are MIDI ones, not audio, right?

(The wiring is different.)

I mean, I presume so. I only meant they looked like 5 pin din, I'm a total newb where anything midi is concerned. I'll find out if and when the post arrives 

[Quatschmacher]

10 hours ago, Kiwi said:

Mine honked and squeaked after the firmware update didn't install properly.  lol

More likely is that the v3 firmware installed fine but you hadn’t overwritten the old v2 presets - this does cause errors. This is why when updating to v3, users MUST write the v3 factory soundset to the pedal as well. This is catered for when using the online browser updater. 

[prowla]

3 hours ago, stewblack said:

I mean, I presume so. I only meant they looked like 5 pin din, I'm a total newb where anything midi is concerned. I'll find out if and when the post arrives 

OK - if it said MIDI, then it should be fine.

I meant, as opposed to a 5-pin DIN cable from a 70s cassette deck! (Well, actually my decent hi-fi system uses DIN cables.)

[stewblack]

1 hour ago, prowla said:

OK - if it said MIDI, then it should be fine.

I meant, as opposed to a 5-pin DIN cable from a 70s cassette deck! (Well, actually my decent hi-fi system uses DIN cables.)

I'm glad you pointed it out though before I went rummaging for spares among Dad's old and extensive collection of plugs wires cables and various electrical ephemera 

[prowla]

Righty-oh; it's arrived!

I might get to play with it this evening.

[Al Krow]

Very nice. Could I guess that you are a fan of the BDDI by any chance? 😁

[prowla]

4 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Very nice. Could I guess that you are a fan of the BDDI by any chance? 😁

The best bass pedal. 🙂

I split the signal to 2 amps.

[stewblack]

Making some small headway. Managed the firmware update without a hitch. Spent an evening with the software, just long enough to realise it will be a long gentle learning curve, which is fine. I have time. 

I have gone through the stock sounds one by one, noting any I think might be useful with a brief description of what it does and/or a song it might suit. 

I've worked out how to download and install sounds created by other people. And learned that as good as they sound online they may be of limited use when played with a bass. I'm assuming that these may have been created with a keyboard. 

I'm not going near the software again for a while. Instead I am making broad brush stroke changes on the pedal itself, just to get an overview on sound editing. 

First impressions? Lots of diverting amusement to be had. I can see me losing many hours to this. The ratio of useful to fun is about 1:10.This will change once I get properly to grips with the software and make patches to suit my needs. 

On some patches the tracking is astonishingly good. I'm talking Hit Me With Your Rhythm Stick good. 

In some cases using a plectrum is rewarded where fingerstyle struggles. Similarly good clean technique is always rewarded. 

I like the one click forward, double click back  I feel if the Zoom MS-60B had this it would be the perfect pedal. 

I am surprised at the lack of YouTube support. There is a plethora of help with almost any other piece of tech imaginable, but for the FI I have only found users scrolling through the sounds. 

The manual will be of limited use until I am very much more familiar with the pedal. Which is why a video for first time users would be so handy. 

Anyway. So far so good, and I can already see myself using it in a band context - not just as a bedroom toy. 

[Quatschmacher]

31 minutes ago, stewblack said:

I am surprised at the lack of YouTube support. There is a plethora of help with almost any other piece of tech imaginable, but for the FI I have only found users scrolling through the sounds. 

The manual will be of limited use until I am very much more familiar with the pedal. Which is why a video for first time users would be so handy. 

@GisserD and I had plans to do a video but the pandemic has scuppered that. We looked into doing it remotely but latency issues have made it difficult.

The manual will help you get familiar with the pedal. I wrote a section on building sounds from scratch too which will help familiarise you with certain functions. I strove to make the whole thing easy to understand and included examples to illustrate points.

Pretty much most of the patches I designed were done on bass so can be played just fine on it. (There were one or two I made on keyboard and some certainly respond better that way, but that is inevitable as it circumvents the need for pitch detection.)

[prowla]

42 minutes ago, stewblack said:

Making some small headway. Managed the firmware update without a hitch. Spent an evening with the software, just long enough to realise it will be a long gentle learning curve, which is fine. I have time. 

I have gone through the stock sounds one by one, noting any I think might be useful with a brief description of what it does and/or a song it might suit. 

I've worked out how to download and install sounds created by other people. And learned that as good as they sound online they may be of limited use when played with a bass. I'm assuming that these may have been created with a keyboard. 

I'm not going near the software again for a while. Instead I am making broad brush stroke changes on the pedal itself, just to get an overview on sound editing. 

First impressions? Lots of diverting amusement to be had. I can see me losing many hours to this. The ratio of useful to fun is about 1:10.This will change once I get properly to grips with the software and make patches to suit my needs. 

On some patches the tracking is astonishingly good. I'm talking Hit Me With Your Rhythm Stick good. 

In some cases using a plectrum is rewarded where fingerstyle struggles. Similarly good clean technique is always rewarded. 

I like the one click forward, double click back  I feel if the Zoom MS-60B had this it would be the perfect pedal. 

I am surprised at the lack of YouTube support. There is a plethora of help with almost any other piece of tech imaginable, but for the FI I have only found users scrolling through the sounds. 

The manual will be of limited use until I am very much more familiar with the pedal. Which is why a video for first time users would be so handy. 

Anyway. So far so good, and I can already see myself using it in a band context - not just as a bedroom toy. 

You definitely have to learn to play a guitar/bass synth; a lot of the sounds don't work if you just pick up and play bass.

Also some of the ideas you may have in your head as to what things sound like (eg. it holding a note whilst you play staccato) don't tend to work (though my EH Synth 9 can do it on its Oberheim setting).

(Further to the above, it's just occurred to me that splitting your signal and using a foot-operated kill switch might do the trick, but then you might be as well getting some MIDI pedals instead.)

When playing with my Minitaur and Markbass SS I found that I could take a supplied sound as a starter and then try tweaking it.

I think that you can probably use an external MIDI unit to do the sound switching, rather than having to tap to scroll through things; something like a Keith McMillen Soft Step or other MIDI switcher., such as some folks use to control their FX racks.

[stewblack]

Thanks guys. I didn't mean for those who  built or worked on it to make videos. I'm talking about users. 

I was surprised such a complex and flexible piece of tech didn't have folk flocking to YouTube with tutorials. 

@prowla I'm happy going through the pedal slowly one step at a time, learning the adjustment available on the pedal itself. That way once I am comfortable with what a sound is and broadly how to alter it I can open the main editor with a goal in mind. 

I'm sure the manual is very simple  and clear to follow for some, but we all learn in different ways. 

[Quatschmacher]

28 minutes ago, stewblack said:

Thanks guys. I didn't mean for those who  built or worked on it to make videos. I'm talking about users.

I’m a user too, and an enthusiastic one at that - that’s how I ended up getting involved in the v3 project in the first place.

 

28 minutes ago, stewblack said:

I was surprised such a complex and flexible piece of tech didn't have folk flocking to YouTube with tutorials.

That’s for several reasons. It’s not very well known. Panda has very minimal marketing. It’s not as immediately easy to get to grips with when compared with a couple of other products. As you said, it is a complex device and that takes time to learn. A big stumbling block I think was the original manual’s impenetrability. I rewrote the whole thing when I got involved and it is much clearer now. I spent a lot of time removing the ambiguities, writing in clear English and fleshing out explanations where I felt they were needed. I’ve added screenshots for everything too. I even discovered a feature I didn’t fully know about during the process.

(I also think a fair number of users give up as they expect to just be able to play as they usually do without realising or being prepared to learn to “play the pedal”. Not suggesting this is true in your case but I’ve seen a number of instances of it.)

Until such time that I can get some video together, the manual is the best and most comprehensive source of information on how to use and get the best out of this pedal. (I had suggested to Andras that he send Zach Rizer a unit to demo as his videos are really thorough but nothing came of that.)

I’m also happy to talk through stuff one-to-one via WhatsApp video call for folks. Maybe I should do some kind of Facebook live thing.

28 minutes ago, stewblack said:

I'm happy going through the pedal slowly one step at a time, learning the adjustment available on the pedal itself.

The parameters on the pedal are very coarse in their adjustment and, depending on the settings in the patch, may not always have any discernible impact. You can get some pretty good mileage out of them in most instances though.

I’d seriously recommend going through the little tutorial I wrote at the end of the manual as it’ll give you a pretty good understanding of the fundamentals.

Edited April 30, 2020 by Quatschmacher

[stewblack]

And I shall go through the manual and tutorials, but first as I have said I am happy learning in a very basic way. I did acknowledge that the pedal controls are broad brush strokes, which for a first time user is just what I need right now. 

Everyone learns differently. 

[prowla]

3 hours ago, Quatschmacher said:

I’m a user too, and an enthusiastic one at that - that’s how I ended up getting involved in the v3 project in the first place.

 

That’s for several reasons. It’s not very well known. Panda has very minimal marketing. It’s not as immediately easy to get to grips with when compared with a couple of other products. As you said, it is a complex device and that takes time to learn. A big stumbling block I think was the original manual’s impenetrability. I rewrote the whole thing when I got involved and it is much clearer now. I spent a lot of time removing the ambiguities, writing in clear English and fleshing out explanations where I felt they were needed. I’ve added screenshots for everything too. I even discovered a feature I didn’t fully know about during the process.

(I also think a fair number of users give up as they expect to just be able to play as they usually do without realising or being prepared to learn to “play the pedal”. Not suggesting this is true in your case but I’ve seen a number of instances of it.)

Until such time that I can get some video together, the manual is the best and most comprehensive source of information on how to use and get the best out of this pedal. (I had suggested to Andras that he send Zach Rizer a unit to demo as his videos are really thorough but nothing came of that.)

I’m also happy to talk through stuff one-to-one via WhatsApp video call for folks. Maybe I should do some kind of Facebook live thing.

The parameters on the pedal are very coarse in their adjustment and, depending on the settings in the patch, may not always have any discernible impact. You can get some pretty good mileage out of them in most instances though.

I’d seriously recommend going through the little tutorial I wrote at the end of the manual as it’ll give you a pretty good understanding of the fundamentals.

I've got no intention of spending much time trying to adjust it from the front panel and learning the nuances of trying to memorise obscure button presses to tweak synth parameters; I'll be on it via the laptop.

[SICbass]

5 hours ago, Quatschmacher said:

Until such time that I can get some video together, the manual is the best and most comprehensive source of information on how to use and get the best out of this pedal. (I had suggested to Andras that he send Zach Rizer a unit to demo as his videos are really thorough but nothing came of that.)

I’m also happy to talk through stuff one-to-one via WhatsApp video call for folks. Maybe I should do some kind of Facebook live thing.

The parameters on the pedal are very coarse in their adjustment and, depending on the settings in the patch, may not always have any discernible impact. You can get some pretty good mileage out of them in most instances though.

I’d seriously recommend going through the little tutorial I wrote at the end of the manual as it’ll give you a pretty good understanding of the fundamentals.

@Quatschmacher is a top chap and super helpful - there, I’ve said it.

Zach Rizer did do a FI video but it was well pre version 3 and quite superficial (that’s not a criticism, mind. An I n depth video about the F I would be about five hours long).

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 30, 2020 by SICbass

[stewblack]

I would hate there to be any confusion. 

1) I am not criticising the manual. I struggle to learn that way. I have to feel my way in slowly, understanding some simple part then gradually expose myself to the more complex stuff once I have an overview. 

2) It is vital for me to understand the panel on the pedal, as I may need to tweak it when gigging. This is very simple to do, which is excellent. 

3) I am always grateful for any assistance I receive from anybody on this forum. On the other hand I try not to irritate people with questions they consider to be beneath them. I don't always get this right. 

4) This pedal cost me less than the four it will replace, you live and learn. 

 

 

 

[Quatschmacher]

17 minutes ago, stewblack said:

I would hate there to be any confusion. 

1) I am not criticising the manual. I struggle to learn that way. I have to feel my way in slowly, understanding some simple part then gradually expose myself to the more complex stuff once I have an overview. 

2) It is vital for me to understand the panel on the pedal, as I may need to tweak it when gigging. This is very simple to do, which is excellent. 

3) I am always grateful for any assistance I receive from anybody on this forum. On the other hand I try not to irritate people with questions they consider to be beneath them. I don't always get this right. 

4) This pedal cost me less than the four it will replace, you live and learn. 

 

 

 

I didn't take your comments as negative criticism. I get that people learn in different ways and often being shown something is easier than reading off a page. That being said, I did try my level best to get the manual to read easily and I asked my girlfriend (who up until that point knew nothing about synths) to proof read it to make sure it was intelligible to a layperson (she''ll appreciate that particular wordplay).

The Panel parameters make more sense when you grasp what they relate to in the editor.

I didn't consider your questions beneath me and am happy to assist. I have spent many hours doing so both on and of the fora. However, often my explanations are better worded in the manual as I spent time crafting the sentences.

 

What are you replacing then? 

[Quatschmacher]

I'm going to post this excerpt from the manual as I think it is a good route in:

Edited April 30, 2020 by Quatschmacher

[stewblack]

I have a good grasp of what the pedal controls do now. Just from other pedals I've used and a bit of good old trial and error.

23 minutes ago, Quatschmacher said:

What are you replacing then? 

When I say replacing some are actually long gone. I've been through two old Boss synth pedals and one synth wah type thing, and if you add up all the different filter pedals, mini q tron, micro q-tron, Source audio and Boss, Bassballs and the autowah and envelopes on mutli effects I've tried a a whole host of things and this does the lot, one way or another. I don't use a huge amout of effects while I'm playing but I have identified some which would work tomorrow if I had a gig. And as my dep work grows there is always a chance of an 80s set coming my way and then I can go crazy with it.

[prowla]

21 minutes ago, stewblack said:

I have a good grasp of what the pedal controls do now. Just from other pedals I've used and a bit of good old trial and error.

When I say replacing some are actually long gone. I've been through two old Boss synth pedals and one synth wah type thing, and if you add up all the different filter pedals, mini q tron, micro q-tron, Source audio and Boss, Bassballs and the autowah and envelopes on mutli effects I've tried a a whole host of things and this does the lot, one way or another. I don't use a huge amout of effects while I'm playing but I have identified some which would work tomorrow if I had a gig. And as my dep work grows there is always a chance of an 80s set coming my way and then I can go crazy with it.

I'll be trying out/looking for 80s synth bass sounds.

(I saw them on that tour...)

[prowla]

Well, I've had a go and stepped through all 99 supplied sounds; they give a good feel for what it can do.

I don't know if I'd use any of the ones as-is, but they do a fine job of showcasing its capabilities.

I have to say the tracking is great and it goes down to bottom E (and dropped D with my Hipshot eXtender), whereas others give up at A. It also handles the note decaying away fantastically well, as opposed to the sound breaking up as it fades below a certain level.

I found myself thinking that I could do with putting a compressor in front to tidy up the input, as the input is quite sensitive and my playing is quite scrappy.

I did find that it would sometimes trigger on what I thought were nifty fingering changes, so I had to be a bit more careful in my playing; I think it suits the more disciplined/trained players.

Operation-wise, I found myself wishing that the program button presses would stay within the selected bank of 10 sounds, rather than stepping to the next bank after 9.

The quick start manual doesn't seem to say what the 3rd digit on the numerical display is telling you; I might figure that out on my 2nd run at it.

Next step will be to get the program installed on my laptop and see if I can replicate a couple of my Minitaur & Markbass SS sounds on the FI.

[Quatschmacher]

22 minutes ago, prowla said:

Well, I've had a go and stepped through all 99 supplied sounds; they give a good feel for what it can do.

I don't know if I'd use any of the ones as-is, but they do a fine job of showcasing its capabilities.

I have to say the tracking is great and it goes down to bottom E (and dropped D with my Hipshot eXtender), whereas others give up at A. It also handles the note decaying away fantastically well, as opposed to the sound breaking up as it fades below a certain level.

I found myself thinking that I could do with putting a compressor in front to tidy up the input, as the input is quite sensitive and my playing is quite scrappy.

I did find that it would sometimes trigger on what I thought were nifty fingering changes, so I had to be a bit more careful in my playing; I think it suits the more disciplined/trained players.

Operation-wise, I found myself wishing that the program button presses would stay within the selected bank of 10 sounds, rather than stepping to the next bank after 9.

The quick start manual doesn't seem to say what the 3rd digit on the numerical display is telling you; I might figure that out on my 2nd run at it.

Next step will be to get the program installed on my laptop and see if I can replicate a couple of my Minitaur & Markbass SS sounds on the FI.

As always, a read of the manual will tell you that you can have the pedal only cycle through banks of 10. Look at the section on the boot menu.

However, if you’re using an external midi controller, which I highly recommend, there are midi assignments for bank up and down, so you can have both methods simultaneously accessible, which is by far the best way.

Rolling off the passive tone helps a lot with double triggers. Also experiment with the note-on and note-off settings on the top of the pedal.

Pay careful attention to muting the previous note before striking another, that is the main culprit for mis-triggers. Learning to trigger the FI cleanly has helped me improve my playing generally.

3rd digit is exactly what it says on the pedal surface, namely the “data”. Basically all parameters on the top of the pedal are adjustable between 1 and 9; 5 is “centred” and means the patch plays as per the settings saved in the editor when it was created.

Some of my factory sounds were “doctored” by Panda after I submitted them to remove any midi assignments and these were mostly replaced with “accent” control (so controllable via playing dynamics). In several instances that dramatically changed how I envisaged the patches. I’ve uploaded my original versions to the file share site and these can be sent to the pedal and will overwrite the relevant patches. The originals sound way better in my opinion.

When you get the editor up and running, do download my patches and browse them as I am sure there’ll be many you’ll like. 

Edited May 2, 2020 by Quatschmacher