Ultimate in Double Bass pickups for feedback?

[TheG]

I’ve got a gig coming up with a loud boogie woogie piano player that I’ve played with before. In the past my amp has been on the verge of feedback where I have to leave it. 
Usually I use a Realist or Full Circle but for these gigs I use a BP100 but it’s still on the verge of feeding back. 
Would a magnetic pickup be any different at all or should I stick with the BP100? 
It’s almost like the feedback loop is being amplified by the bass itself?

I use a 1x12 cab but do own 2! Not sure if having 2 would make it better or worse? 
 

Any feedback ideas at all would be useful. 🤘

[6feet7]

I've a Kent Armstrong magnetic pickup fitted to the end of my fb and it does cut down on the feedback considerably, but those f holes are the real culprit. Going to have to get them filled with foam cutouts.

[bassace]

I’d go for a mag. If the pianist is loud the subtleties of your bass will be lost anyway. In my experience mags give quite a faithful sound but can lose the dynamics a bit. Krivo is very good but Schaller is OK too.

[Beer of the Bass]

What's your amp, and are you using a preamp? I used to gig regularly at one particularly tricky venue using the house 4x10“ cab, and the thing that helped most was having a high-pass filter to take out the low rumbly stuff that can often start feedback. Mine is a Schalltechnik Vong pedal. Making foam f-hole plugs helped too.

[MuddBass]

+1 for HPF, but also use a 180/phase switch.

Such can be found on preamps such as Fishman Pro Bass, EBS Stanley  Clarke etc.

[TheG]

Thanks a lot everybody for the advice all excellent stuff to think about. 
Yeah the subtleties of the sound aren’t so important! 😬 Just got to keep up with his piano going through 2 high powered speakers out the front! 🤣 I’m really not on to a winner 🤣 but just trying to keep up really. 
 

He is a good player and I do enjoy it. I’ve played with Boogie pianists before and it’s not about competing with the bottom end but more about complementing what they are doing in a sympathetic way. 
 

Yeah I can imagine a magnetic pickup really turning the acoustic bass into an electric bass! Which isn’t a bad thing in certain circumstances. I tried playing double bass in a soul band with my jazz set up which didn’t really hit the mark, an electric bass is what was required. But you live and learn don’t you. Maybe a magnetic pickup would have done it? 
 

Anyway yeah I think the other thing mentioned was covering the f holes. I haven’t tried that before at all so that sounds like a really great, simple and obvious idea. 
 

I do use an EA Doubler which does have a notch filter on. I’ve tried it in the past but it didn’t seem to do much. Just read the manual which says it’s only available on channel 2 so maybe that’s a case of RTFM!!! 🤣🤣🤣

I also have a Line6 XT Bass modeller which I sometimes use. But I have been in a few loud gigs where you turn the bass down it’s not enough then you turn it back up a bit and it’s too loud. But the Line6 will have a hpf on it somewhere won’t it!!
 

Anyway that’s Great I have a few things to try and if there’s a cheap magnetic pickup out there I could experiment as well. 
 

Thanks again everybody.

Any more advice feel free to leave it here after today if you want! It’s all useful stuff!!

( Hope you are well BassAce it’s been a while 👍🤓👍) 

[Dad3353]

25 minutes ago, TheG said:

...Any more advice...

It might be worth trying a two-cab approach, if you've enough room on stage to get them both a bit further away from you..? One to the left, t'other to the right, which might give less opportunity for the bass to 'talk' to them, but still spread the sound out to you all. Just a thought. 

[jrixn1]

30 minutes ago, TheG said:

Just got to keep up with his piano going through 2 high powered speakers out the front!

Can you not also go through the PA, and as a result lower your stage volume?

[TheRev]

My band are loud... this is my recipe for feedback free playing.

1) Krivo magnetic pickup (available from promenade music in the UK)

2) HPF. I also have an EA doubler, but find the HPF a bit feeble. I *think* the EA HPF is a 12db per octave roll off, wheras Fishman and the wonderful Fdeck HPF is 24db per octave, but the EA will be better than nothing..  A phase inversion switch is also useful.

3) Plug your f-holes. I use F-its. www.f-itsfeedbackblockers.co.uk

4) Raise your cab up of the ground, as close to ear height as possible so it's not firing at the body of your bass and making it vibrate.  I use a folding keyboard stand. Also, putting your cab to yor side rather than behind you can help as youre pesenting the ribs of your bass rather than the whole back (i.e a smaller & less resonant surface area) towards the amp.      

Dave

[DR T.J.]

TheG,

What I would do first is forget about the BP100, IMO one of the worst pickups for DB out there. Not in the least because of where it is fitted to the bridge: where you get the least amount of low end. As a result you need to compensate and add low end on your amp which can send everything into feedback. Realist pickups aren't great for loud situations either.

Get a Bass Max or, even cheaper, a J-Tone. I find that they both work great, I never have any feedback issues and I've never covered my f-holes. Of course the personality of the bass is also a factor as no two are the same, but these pickups are highly feedback resistant on anything I've used them with.

Absolutely bring a second speaker if you are afraid you will be pushing a single one to it's limits. It will at the very least result in more headroom which is also a great anti-feedback tool :-).

Contrary to what some people say: leave your cabinet on the floor. It is the coupling of the cabinet with the floor that is usually the best recipe for tight low end. If you are going to use two you can stack them and see/hear what that does, but I would experiment with having both on the floor as well. Or even raise one and leave one on the floor.

Good luck!

[guyl]

In the past I had a mag pickup attached to the end of the fingerboard. Can’t remember what make, but it never fed back. It also didn’t sound great on its own. Then used a simple blender to mix together with my usual pickup - more mag if it got very loud; less if not needed. Never filled my f-holes but had various bits of foam/socks/tea towel to reduce sympathetic string ringing. Someone on here (Owen??) took that to extreme and made a garish “coat”  for his bass which looked very fun! Also +1 for a Fishman pre/eq thingy. 

[guyl]

Just seen this. Don’t know the seller but this is a great tool for gigs where volume is loud and feedback starts to become a problem. If I ever lost mine, I’d immediately buy another. 

 

[Downunderwonder]

Feed back comes from the body resonating and the strings playing ball. A magnetic pickup puts the measuring at the string instead of the body but you aren't doing anything about the source.

[TheG]

That’s Great!! I’ve got a much more clearer picture now. There’s a few things I can sort out at home (f hole covers and pickups to try) then also a few things I can experiment with on the gig (multiple placement ideas of 2 speakers). 
 

I know people have differing ideas about the same pickup so it’s good to hear different opinions on the same pickup. 
 

I realised I’ve got an Empress Parametric EQ pedal that you can change the Q setting on as well so that will be useful to try. Although learning on here about hpf cut levels (12db vs 24db etc) the pedal has 15db of cut. But I know it will still be useful. 
 

Really appreciate that you all took time out to put up some very detailed answers for me. 
 

The gig isn’t yet, I wanted to sort this way out in advance, but I’m going to try a few things out at home and then make a feedback busting itinerary for the day of the gig. 
 

🤘😎🤘

[mybass]

I picked up a Phil Jones ‘Earbox’ for my acoustic bass gigs )or gigs with a low volume requirement !). It’s a no ohms load on the amp and puts a bit of your bass closer to you on a stand. Hope this pastes okay…

https://philjonesbass.net/cms/index.php/product-eb-001/

[TheG]

I do really like this idea for other lower volume gigs as you say. I experimented with a Mackie SRM150 but it just didn’t seem to cut it. Maybe it wasn’t powerful enough or maybe just the wrong thing? 

I’d like to think that this would work being specifically for bass but I’m unsure of the difference. 

[TheG]

Ok so I did the 2 gigs. 👍
 

I liked the idea of covering the sound holes but it was a bit of a harder job than i realised. Thought I could just cover them up but it was a bit tricker than anticipated. So left them open. 
 

In the end I got good results from using my trusty BP100 through a Line6 BassPod (with some compression) then into my EA Doubler and two 1x12 Bergantino speakers stacked one on top of each other. 

 

I did try the exact same set up first with my Fishman Full Circle and Realist pickups but seemed to get a bit of feedback but only at the top of the volume setting. 
 

I’m not sure if I got less feedback issues with the BP100 because the pickup was further away from the body of the bass? 
 

Thanks for everybody’s input here anyway and I still might experiment with a magnetic pickup at some point regardless. 
 

🤘🤓🤘

[pete.young]

58 minutes ago, TheG said:

 

I liked the idea of covering the sound holes but it was a bit of a harder job than i realised. Thought I could just cover them up but it was a bit tricker than anticipated. So left them open. 
 

It's not hard to make a set of foam plugs to fit into the holes.  I think there's a thread on it somewhere but I couldn't find it.

[TheG]

Hi Pete I started putting foam in the F hole and I lost some of it in the body!🤣 I realised if I wanted the foam flush with the body it would probably all fall in as there’s not much holding it. 
 

I’m going to look for that thread you mentioned but if you do find it post it here. 👍👍👍

[TheG]

Ok well I did find it mentioned on a thread. Cutting out thinner foam to the shape of the f hole then adding another piece on top that is slightly bigger! That way you don’t lose the foam. Cool. 👍😎👍

[pete.young]

I think what I did was to stick overlapping bits of masking tape over the F-holes, shade over the top with a pencil to get an outline of the hole, then carefully peel off the tape and cut out the outline. Then stick it onto a sheet of foam and then cut round the outline with a stanley knife. I used half-inch thick foam and there's still plenty of it sticking out for when you want to remove it.

[PaulKing]

On 12/10/2021 at 01:44, TheG said:

Ok well I did find it mentioned on a thread. Cutting out thinner foam to the shape of the f hole then adding another piece on top that is slightly bigger! That way you don’t lose the foam. Cool. 👍😎👍

 

Thats the way!  ... check dougsplugs.com...  made mine years ago never had feedback ever again and i play pretty louid, standing right nest to amp.

That and a decent use of eq

Also Underwood / Shadow 951, Bassmax, all less feedback-prone than a Realist (thats a boom machine) or Full Circle. 

 

[NickA]

Phase switch.  If only more bass amps had them.  My acoustic bass guitar with peizo pickup is a feedback monster, but it has a phase switch that kills it dead.

 

Double bass has a realist sound clamp, feeds back badly if screwed down tightly, but I clamp it to the bridge more lightly, with a bit of bicycle inner tube between bridge and clamp.  No feedback.

[TheG]

Excellent thanks guys!!! 
👍👍👍

[pete.young]

I find the notch filter in my EDB-1 takes out most of the feedback without needing the plugs. There's one for sale on the forum now, and it also has a phase switch.