tegs07 Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 (edited) After watching “What drives us” documentary something Flea said chimes with the thread on here about Download festival and the dinosaur mega bands. Flea commented on how all the big rock bands such as RHCP, Metallica, Foo Fighters, U2 are still going and are the only bands that can fill big arenas. As if a wall was erected in the late 90’s and no one can get over it. The documentary focussed on reaching an audience the old school way. On the road in a van, forging bonds with your band mates and just getting good through constantly playing and direct audience feedback. Is the rock icon dead? Or do bands need to go back to basics to break down that wall? Edit: have put constantly in bold as it’s what these guys did. Not a couple of 10 date tours a year. Constantly playing, improving and learning to get along with each other. Edited June 21, 2021 by tegs07 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merton Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 (edited) Similar theme to this thread (though that is focussed on British bands only): Edited June 21, 2021 by Merton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tegs07 Posted June 21, 2021 Author Share Posted June 21, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Merton said: Similar theme to this thread (though that is focussed on British bands only): Hi yes that’s the one I referred to. I was thinking rock in general and more about touring and not relying on social media and festivals which appear to be the route in these days. The problem is rock audiences don’t just want the Spotify stream reproduced live and minor bands on the festival circuit tend to be ignored by media and festival goers as alike. Didn’t comment on that thread as it’s British rock only with a metal emphasis. Edited June 21, 2021 by tegs07 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merton Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 Haha sorry I didn't read your original post properly It's certainly something to consider isn't it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jus Lukin Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 (edited) - Edited March 14, 2022 by Jus Lukin 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mykesbass Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 Part of a general change in music consumption, with pop acts (Little Mix, Ariana Grande) playing arenas way bigger than pop acts (Nik Kershaw, Thompson Twins) thirty plus years ago. The latter would have way outsold the former in record sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 Music is different since the 90s. Back then you bought an album, listened to it to death and then you bought lots by those people, and those people who were related to those people, and you were passionate about it, so went to see them etc. Now music is basically valueless, you can hear it everywhere, and the tribalism and intense listening to one group is not really something that does the same now. Music shows are about some singer, as the only one that matters (hense the lack of groups), and xfactor type shows are shown as the way to get famous. Its just the age it is now, the era of the band is sort of over 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tegs07 Posted June 21, 2021 Author Share Posted June 21, 2021 12 minutes ago, Woodinblack said: Now music is basically valueless, you can hear it everywhere, and the tribalism and intense listening to one group is not really something that does the same now. Music shows are about some singer, as the only one that matters (hense the lack of groups), and xfactor type shows are shown as the way to get famous. Its just the age it is now, the era of the band is sort of over This is possibly true. I do wonder if too much emphasis is put on social media by bands and festival promoters though in terms of reaching audiences and booking bands. A band may have a lot of followers and a well produced album but if they can’t deliver something magic live they won’t succeed unlike the pop world where hired guns and visuals and choreography go a long way. On top of this without the camaraderie and fun experiences of touring bands won’t last long as the financial rewards from record sales and streaming just aren’t there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, tegs07 said: As if a wall was erected in the late 90’s and no one can get over it. Arctic Monkeys released their debut in 2006 and have gone on to sell out arenas and headline festivals all over the world. I can't really think of any more recent acts that have forced their way into the big boys club though. Edited June 21, 2021 by Cato Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tegs07 Posted June 21, 2021 Author Share Posted June 21, 2021 7 minutes ago, Cato said: Arctic Monkeys released their debut in 2006 and have gone on to sell out arenas and headline festivals all over the world. I can't really think of any more recent acts that have forced their way into the big boys club though. I was going to reference them as well as Idles who before Covid were banging on the gates. Both have a unique sound and can cut it live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 Off the top of my head: Ariana Grande, Taylor Swift, Ed Sheeran and Dua Lipa. IMO they would all easily outsell RHCP today. In the late 90s (say 1998) they were 5, 9, 7 and 3 years old respectively. Ok not rock bands but superstars with backing groups. But why doesn't that count? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tegs07 Posted June 21, 2021 Author Share Posted June 21, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Al Krow said: Off the top of my head: Ariana Grande, Taylor Swift, Ed Sheeran and Dua Lipa. IMO they would all easily outsell RHCP today. In the late 90s (say 1998) they were 5, 9, 7 and 3 years old respectively. Ok not rock bands but superstars with backing groups. But why doesn't that count? They are all pop stars though, aside from the possible exception of Ed Sheerhan. I think the pop audience has different expectations and the artists have a shorter life span. Good looks, good session musicians, hired song writers, big shows etc The audience tends to be younger and have come to hear their favourite songs reproduced live. Edit: They also have the financial backing to get the PR and prime time shows and media exposure. Clothes designers, make up artists, life coaches etc they are selling a lifestyle not just music IMO Edited June 21, 2021 by tegs07 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 (edited) 56 minutes ago, tegs07 said: They are all pop stars though, aside from the possible exception of Ed Sheerhan. I think the pop audience has different expectations and the artists have a shorter life span. Good looks, good session musicians, hired song writers, big shows etc The audience tends to be younger and have come to hear their favourite songs reproduced live. Edit: They also have the financial backing to get the PR and prime time shows and media exposure. Clothes designers, make up artists, life coaches etc they are selling a lifestyle not just music IMO I suspect Taylor Swift will still be around and playing when Flea is sitting comfortably in his OAP home, and her audiences will age and continue to follow her. Just as we have done with the current crop of aging rockers. Edited June 21, 2021 by Al Krow 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tegs07 Posted June 21, 2021 Author Share Posted June 21, 2021 She will. She is a US country musician that has crossed over into pop. Her audience in the US alone is massive. Garth Brooks anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 12 minutes ago, tegs07 said: . . . They also have the financial backing to get the PR and prime time shows and media exposure. Clothes designers, make up artists, life coaches etc they are selling a lifestyle not just music IMO Just like all the Motown artists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tegs07 Posted June 21, 2021 Author Share Posted June 21, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, chris_b said: Just like all the Motown artists. Indeed. A lot of their acts toured extensively and were very good musicians but with little success until the song writers and media savvy Motown guys put them on the map. My basic point is until the late 1960’s musicians were rarely rich. It was a vocation and lifestyle choice. This changed for 30 years or so but has/is reverting to type. A living however can be made still but playing live and hitting the road is crucial. Edited June 21, 2021 by tegs07 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 1 hour ago, Al Krow said: Off the top of my head: Ariana Grande, Taylor Swift, Ed Sheeran and Dua Lipa. IMO they would all easily outsell RHCP today. I think the question was about bands. Clearly they would outsell RHCP, especially as Ms Swift has the record for the highest grossing tour of all time. But none of them are bands, they are all solo artists. There aren't that many big young bands. I mean I am happy to go and see wolf alice instead of any of the groups listed here, but they are hardly a large rock band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SumOne Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 (edited) In the 60-70s there wasn't hip hop, techno, drum n bass etc. so if you were into making music then being in a band was the main route, not so much nowadays - it's fragmented and there are lots of other ways to express yourself musically other than playing in a band and lots of other ways of being heard and making money from music other than signing to a major label and doing massive tours. So I guess it's inevitable there will be fewer new bands filling stadiums. Also, to get to the point of being big enough to fill stadiums takes a long time, over the last 20 years or so there have been bands formed like Ghost, The Strokes, Royal Blood, Arctic Monkeys, Maroon 5, Biffy Clyro, Arcade Fire, Bring me the Horizon, Mumford & Sons, Florence and the Machine etc. that all fill big venues and headline festivals. I guess if they can stay together and make a couple more well received albums they'll be filling stadiums in a few years. I wouldn't discount the likes of stadium filling pop stars like Taylor Swift, Lady Gaga, Beyonce, Lana Del Ray, Ed Sheeran, Lorde, Adele etc. they often have live backing bands/session musicians and aren't really doing things that differently to the way pop star singers in the past did things. Edited June 21, 2021 by SumOne 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tegs07 Posted June 21, 2021 Author Share Posted June 21, 2021 1 minute ago, SumOne said: Also, to get to the point of being big enough to fill stadiums takes a long time, over the last 20 years or so there have been bands formed like Ghost, The Strokes, Royal Blood, Arctic Monkeys, Maroon 5, Biffy Clyro, Arcade Fire, Bring me the Horizon, Mumford & Sons, Florence and the Machine etc. that all fill big venues and headline festivals. I guess if they can stay together and make a couple more well received albums they'll be filling stadiums in a few years. This is a key point. It takes a long time. Persistence, the ability to weather changing trends and fashions, being able to take the ups and downs, financial and emotional. Pretty much all of the guys interviewed for the documentary said if it wasn’t for the formative years touring in a band and getting to know and trust each other musically as well as personally they would never have lasted the test of time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tegs07 Posted June 21, 2021 Author Share Posted June 21, 2021 19 minutes ago, SumOne said: wouldn't discount the likes of stadium filling pop stars like Taylor Swift, Lady Gaga, Beyonce, Lana Del Ray, Ed Sheeran, Lorde, Adele etc. they often have live backing bands/session musicians and aren't really doing things that differently to the way I’m not really including pop stars in the discussion as I think (possibly erroneously) that their route to success is a different beast entirely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skybone Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 You also need to factor in the decimation of Venues that put on Live Music. 20 years or so ago, there were far more venues operating than there are now, and a lot of them actively put on and promoted new & upcoming bands, playing original music. It seems that fewer venues are willing to take the risk of putting on bands, and those that do, want bands that'll play known music (popular covers) in order to get the punters through the door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 44 minutes ago, tegs07 said: I’m not really including pop stars in the discussion as I think (possibly erroneously) that their route to success is a different beast entirely. I suspect for a lot of them their route to sucess isn't all that different. Taylor swifts dad was a music exec guy so that probably gave a head start, (not that that means she didn't work for it), Beyonce actualy got famous as part of a group before going solo, and Lana Del Ray was quite specific about her success.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tegs07 Posted June 21, 2021 Author Share Posted June 21, 2021 (edited) I think for the majority of pop stars being attractive, well connected and having a significant amount of financial backing is imperative. Driving up and down the country and abroad in an old van until you finally break through isn’t really going to work as you will no longer be youthful and beautiful! Plus a large proportion of your audience are likely to still be in school or college. Edited June 21, 2021 by tegs07 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tegs07 Posted June 21, 2021 Author Share Posted June 21, 2021 53 minutes ago, Skybone said: You also need to factor in the decimation of Venues that put on Live Music. 20 years or so ago, there were far more venues operating than there are now, and a lot of them actively put on and promoted new & upcoming bands, playing original music. It seems that fewer venues are willing to take the risk of putting on bands, and those that do, want bands that'll play known music (popular covers) in order to get the punters through the door. This is very true and very sad. Trying to get an audience to watch music they don’t already know is increasingly difficult. Hence the proliferation of tribute bands and venues closing all over the place. I don’t know the remedy for this sadly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 20 minutes ago, tegs07 said: I think for the majority of pop stars being attractive, well connected and having a significant amount of financial backing is imperative. Ed Sheeran? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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