Preamp/DI/Cabsim For Recording

[jimcroisdale]

Hi all,

I seem to be getting asked to record bass parts for people, and so I'm wanting to improve my recording setup to give the client a better end result that doesn't need too much processing at their end.

I play a Sterling SB14 with flats, and it's generally a fingerstyle funk sort of style. I currently go straight into my interface. It's acceptable, but it's not great.

So, ideally, I'd like something that at least has EQ and a cabsim output. If it has a compressor just to catch the peaks, then so much the better.

I don't need it to have a drive channel, or be switchable etc etc. 

Been looking at all the usual suspects, but not all seem to have cabsim and/or compressor. Perhaps that's because I really don't NEED those? Tell me if so 🙂

I welcome your suggestions,

Jim

[Sibob]

In my opinion as someone who has done a fair amount of remote recording, the less you do to the stem, the better.
Unless there is a specific part of the brief that says 'make it sound like an SVT', I'd be recording DI (as you are), and letting whoever is mixing the piece do whatever they need to, whether that's re-amping it, or using an amp/cab-sim on your track.
To me, there's little point in mixing a great bass tone, only to then send that to the mix-engineer and it not fit well in their mix.

Si

[Beedster]

5 minutes ago, Sibob said:

In my opinion as someone who has done a fair amount of remote recording, the less you do to the stem, the better.
Unless there is a specific part of the brief that says 'make it sound like an SVT', I'd be recording DI (as you are), and letting whoever is mixing the piece do whatever they need to, whether that's re-amping it, or using an amp/cab-sim on your track.
To me, there's little point in mixing a great bass tone, only to then send that to the mix-engineer and it not fit well in their mix.

Si

That’s absolutely the best advice you’ll get

[jimcroisdale]

I totally get that.

BUT 🙂

I'm not the world's best bassist, and thus my clients are not the world's best mixers.

I think back to when I was doing a lot of mixing. I always struggled getting a bass sound that I liked, or that would sit nicely. Conversely, when I practiced my mixing skills using downloaded multitracks I found that the bass was pretty bloody amazing right off the bat. There was something in the way that they'd tracked the bass that made it so much easier to work with. And I don't necessarily mean that it sounded tons better soloed, just that there were much less in the way of issues to "fix" before it would sit right.

If I can offer a bit more of that for my clients, I'll be happy.

[skidder652003]

zoom B3n..probably...

[paul_5]

Whenever I've done remote recording I've always recorded at least 3 tracks simultaneously and sent them all to the engineer -

1) Bass straight from DI box.

2)Bass direct from pedal board.

3)Bass DI from tube preamp (with effects).

 

Track 1 is a safety net, in case there's a change to the track later the doesn't need overdrive etc...

Speaking as a producer, it's always better to have tracks that aren't needed than not enough!

[Sibob]

3 hours ago, jimcroisdale said:

And I don't necessarily mean that it sounded tons better soloed, just that there were much less in the way of issues to "fix" before it would sit right.

But if you don’t know how the rest of the mix is being set up by the mix-engineer....how do you know what needs ‘fixing’. Their ability is redundant at this point, the point is not to second-guess what you think they want from the bass....THEY might not even know at this point, as nothing else is mixed yet either.

Si

Edited June 21, 2021 by Sibob

[Nail Soup]

I'd echo what the others have said....... an untreated bassline is the most flexible. Effects can be added to a raw signal, but not subtracted from a treated signal.

The compromise is to send a treated and untreated track to the customer. If you are using hardware effects then that means some sort of splitter.

 

Anyway - you've already solved the difficult bit:- having people ask for stuff!

 

Disclaimer - I'm a home player, I don't record for anyone.

[skankdelvar]

Couple of things:

SiBob makes the excellent point that cleanliness is next to Godliness. But you still might want to produce some 'effected' tracks anyway for your own pleasure.

You don't say whether you're looking for an outboard FX unit (e.g. a Zoom) or plug-ins to use inside your recording software (assuming you're using a DAW like Logic or Reaper or whatever).

Outboard FX

The outboard thing is just finding a usable FX pedal / box and buying it if you don't already own it. 

Let's assume you've got two recording inputs on your recording device. Get a DI box with two outputs. Plug your bass into it.

Run one output from the DI box into your FX unit and from there to a recording input sent to a track you can name 'effected bass'. The other output from the DI box goes straight into the second recording input sent to a track you name 'DI bass'.

Check your levels, hit record, play your bass, hit stop. You've now got one track with 'printed' effects and a second track with your DI sound. 

Plug-ins for DAW's

There's a sh*t-tonne of freebie bass amp sims, cab sims, compressors and EQ's out there, all perfectly serviceable.

Record a clean bass track into your DAW.

In your DAW set up a track FX chain with a trim plug-in > amp sim> cab sim > compressor > EQ > trim plug in.

Trim your input signal to peak at no more than minus18db (as a starter) to avoid clipping the plug ins.

Disable all the effects after the cab sim. Play around with the amp sim until it sounds nice. Make sure the output doesn't go into the red.

Now enable the compressor and set it to gentle levelling (or more if you want to crush the signal down). Now enable the EQ. 

Roll off everything below 30-40hz and over 10khz. Experiment with boosting and cutting stuff to see what it sounds like.

Use the output trim to keep your track output in hand (minus 12db to minus 18db).

All the above plug-ins are non-destructive. Disable them and you'll revert to your DI signal as recorded.
 

Couple of freebie amp sims I like:

TSE BOD (sort of clone of the Sansamp)

https://www.tseaudio.com/software/tseBOD

Helian 1st, 2nd and 3rd basses (now discontinued but available from the site below, playable sound samples. I prefer the 2nd Bass)

http://www.grebz.com/simulator_freeamp_others_eng.php#frettedsynth

 

Have fun 

Edited June 21, 2021 by skankdelvar

[WinterMute]

4 hours ago, skankdelvar said:

 

Roll off everything below 30-40hz and over 10khz. 

Not in my studio... do not filter bass sounds, a steep 25Hz filter only if you really, really must, let the mix engineer decide what he wants in the LF. definitely don't filter over 10K, plenty of useable stuff on a bass above 10K.

4 hours ago, skankdelvar said:

Have fun 

What he said.

 

 

Also Line 6 Stomp, does amp and cab sim and a bunch of FX too, choice of compressors and limiters etc. Takes a bit of learning, but sounds very good. I take a feed from the stomp and a feed from the Rupert Neve DI in the Shelford channel, mix the two.

[skankdelvar]

4 hours ago, WinterMute said:

let the mix engineer decide what he wants in the LF

 This suggestion was more for when the OP is doing stuff for himself. I subscribe to SiBob's earlier opinion that anything sent out should include a virgin stem.

4 hours ago, WinterMute said:

definitely don't filter over 10K, plenty of useable stuff on a bass above 10K

 I'm sure that's true in a studio context. With cheap or free plug-ins I've sometimes found some nasty fizzy stuff up there so the suggestion is in the nature of a starting point. I'm sure the OP will experiment with his cuts as time goes by.
 

4 hours ago, WinterMute said:

Also Line 6 Stomp, does amp and cab sim and a bunch of FX too, choice of compressors and limiters etc. Takes a bit of learning, but sounds very good. I take a feed from the stomp and a feed from the Rupert Neve DI in the Shelford channel, mix the two.

I dreams of a Rupert Neve DI Shelford at three and a half notes!

[NickD]

I'd look towards whatever DAW you use. Mine (Cubase Elements 10) has some really well thought out comps, EQs, effects, etc, and I'm guessing pretty much any DAW has very similar stuff.

You could record the raw track, take a duplicate and 'fix' it, or you could set up the sound as you want, then take a duplicate and remove the enhancements, providing both for the client so they can do as they will depending on their skill level or taste.

[Jus Lukin]

-

Edited March 14, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[WinterMute]

5 hours ago, skankdelvar said:

I dreams of a Rupert Neve DI Shelford at three and a half notes!

It's a beast, the combination of the Shelford channel and the stomp on separate tracks gives me a ton of options in the mix, never had a bad bass sound from it. (or guitar for that matter).

[Sibob]

Why don’t you just send the mix-engineers you know to this thread?
That way, they can learn, and you can do less work.

😉

Si