Singers who don't understand how music works

[MacDaddy]

How do you know if it's a vocalist at the door?

They never have the right key, and they never know when to come in.

[ambient]

I’ve encountered drummers, guitarists and singers who count in on one tempo, then actually start playing at a completely different one.

I met a drummer once who had absolutely no understanding of the fundamentals of drumming, ie beat subdivision or anything. Yet he had a ridiculously expensive drum kit. He didn’t understand that a fill is meant to be in time, he’d just hit the drums a number of times.

I recorded for a singer songwriter who’d learned to play guitar by watching Noel Gallagher on YouTube. Consequently he had no idea what the chords were to his songs. 

I had a student once who absolutely refused to engage with anything that was even vaguely connected with musical theory/harmony. He’d come for a weekly lesson to learn to play a Stranglers songs, a different one each week. That was all he wanted to do. The one week he phoned and complained that I’d taught him to play a song wrongly. It turned out that he’d gone along to an open mic night with some friends, and after a few drinks had been encouraged to get up and play. Unfortunately for him the house band did the song in a different key to what he’d learned it in.

[Cat Burrito]

10 minutes ago, ambient said:

I’ve encountered drummers, guitarists and singers who count in on one tempo, then actually start playing at a completely different one.

We were talking about this in the studio just the other day. We occasionally work with an ex-pro drummer who is fantastic in every way, except he does this with count ins. It is most bizarre!

[Waddo Soqable]

1 hour ago, Jus Lukin said:

'Everyone can sing!'

What a lovely idea and load of bollocks.

I always laugh when I hear this.. I for one cannot sing, at all, end of ..

[ambient]

19 minutes ago, Waddo Soqable said:

I always laugh when I hear this.. I for one cannot sing, at all, end of ..

I had to do a weekly singing class as part of my music degree. In the very first class the tutor confidently expressed the opinion that everyone can sing, then she met me.

[Waddo Soqable]

4 minutes ago, ambient said:

I had to do a weekly singing class as part of my music degree. In the very first class the tutor confidently expressed the opinion that everyone can sing, then she met me.

I dodged a bullet with it at school tho, in the "music" lesson, which was run by the most unpleasant old bastard you could imagine, everyone at term's start had to stand up individually and sing, those who "could sing"  were immediately drafted with no choice of refusal into a "choir"... I didn't even need to pretend, after about two squwarky noises from me it was.. " Stop..!"

[bass_dinger]

47 minutes ago, ambient said:

I’ve encountered drummers, guitarists and singers who count in on one tempo, then actually start playing at a completely different one.

I met a drummer once who had absolutely no understanding of the fundamentals of drumming, ie beat subdivision or anything. Yet he had a ridiculously expensive drum kit. He didn’t understand that a fill is meant to be in time, he’d just hit the drums a number of times.

 

I have seen both - people who will literally count to four before the song starts, rather than count in four beats.  Drummers too, whose fills are great but which last 7 or 9 beats, or whose sense of speed varies hugely.  

 

But the question was "vocalists", so, I have worked in a church group that expected to start singing acapella, with no reference pitch, and then have the musicians join in.

"You might not be starting on the right note - we won't know what key you are in!" I said.
"But it is written there  . . . " and she pointed to the chord chart.  

The music was in G, they rehearsed the week before in G.  On the morning, they struggled with that key, but then spontaneously sung in C.  At other times, they have sung songs in C sharp - pretty difficult for most musicians.

It took me a week to think of a response that was polite and helpful. I explained different keys, and how everyone needed a reference pitch.  "I don't understand about that.  I just sing."

 

I must say, when I started out, I had no real clue about music, and it was only the patience and generous nature of others that allowed me to build up my skills.  I am grateful that others put up with my musical incompetence; I am less patient with the incompetence of others.  And that is an attitude that I have been working to get rid of, for 20 years.

 

 

   

[4000]

3 hours ago, JapanAxe said:

Personally I’ve had more grief with guitarists who don’t understand how music works, e.g.:

- Assuming the first chord of a song is its key;

 

Yep, common one, that. 

[SteveXFR]

2 hours ago, Jus Lukin said:

'Everyone can sing!'

What a lovely idea and load of bollocks.

Singer in our band said that when he wanted me to do backing vocals. He admitted he was very wrong. My singing style sounds like a bull elephant that has just stepped on it's own penis

[Lozz196]

8 minutes ago, SteveXFR said:

Singer in our band said that when he wanted me to do backing vocals. He admitted he was very wrong. My singing style sounds like a bull elephant that has just stepped on it's own penis

We have a mate we call Chewie. It’s not cos he looks like a Wookie, but that he sounds like one when singing.

[MacDaddy]

10 minutes ago, SteveXFR said:

Singer in our band said that when he wanted me to do backing vocals. He admitted he was very wrong. My singing style sounds like a bull elephant that has just stepped on it's own penis

a career in Death Metal awaits  \m/ 😈

[Cat Burrito]

31 minutes ago, Lozz196 said:

We have a mate we call Chewie. It’s not cos he looks like a Wookie, but that he sounds like one when singing.

A bit like "Mittens" on lead guitar.... he plays like he is wearing them!

[ubit]

We had an accordion player. My massively passive aggressive guitar playing mate insisted we needed one. It was fine in the traditional stuff we played. Even in the country rock type stuff it worked. Trouble is he got sick of sitting out so started playing along with everything. Rock songs don't work with a bleeding accordion. He bought some gadget that was supposed to make the accordion sound like keyboards or any other sound he wanted. All I ever heard was bloody accordion!

Edited June 28, 2021 by ubit

[Doctor J]

I used to be in a band with my best mate at the time, a guitarist. He was well coordinated so could technically play but had no sense of timing whatsoever. He was a mate, though, so we set up a band. There was no point in writing songs, though, it would have been a mess so we improvised everything. The drummer and I would come up with something and guitarist would noodle aimlessly over it while another mate improvised vocals over that - usually chats about scams and such. It was a lot of fun, to be honest and, although we were usually unpopular with audiences we were surprisingly not universally so.

[ubit]

59 minutes ago, SteveXFR said:

Singer in our band said that when he wanted me to do backing vocals. He admitted he was very wrong. My singing style sounds like a bull elephant that has just stepped on it's own penis

Our rhythm player decided he wanted to add backing vocals and bought himself a mic and stand. He was dreadful. We used to turn him down in the mix and he never knew it.

[JapanAxe]

6 minutes ago, ubit said:

We had an accordion player. ...

At this point it was obvious nothing good was going to happen.

[uk_lefty]

1 hour ago, JapanAxe said:

At this point it was obvious nothing good was going to happen.

Steady on, they might have got lots of Polish / Eastern European wedding gigs! 

[bass_dinger]

And don't get me started on tambourines!

People assume that they are easy to play, and will add to the overall sound.  However, they often end up sounding like a drawer full of cutlery being dropped down the stairs.  Latterly, we took to bolting it to the drum kit rack - the drummer never played it, but the clamp ensured that it could never escape, and fall into the hands of the wrong person.

 

[peteb]

12 minutes ago, uk_lefty said:

Steady on, they might have got lots of Polish / Eastern European wedding gigs! 

At which everyone would have been too drunk to care if a song was being played on an accordion, a guitar or a stylophone...! 

[nekomatic]

A guy I used to play with had a rule ‘never let a singer get hold of a shaker’. 
 

This is a crude generalisation of course, as I know singers who can wield a caixixi  much better than I can. But it’s a good working principle. 

[Japhet]

Conversation in my band a few years back;

Singer; I can't reach the high notes in this.

Me; We can change the key if you like.

Singer; No need to do that. I'll just start a bit higher.

Me; That would have to be an octave which is a lot higher.

Singer; What's an octave? I'll just start a little bit higher

Me; So, in the wrong key then.

Singer; What?

[bass_dinger]

5 minutes ago, nekomatic said:

A guy I used to play with had a rule ‘never let a singer get hold of a shaker’. 

Keith Richards?

[zbd1960]

3 hours ago, ambient said:

I had to do a weekly singing class as part of my music degree. In the very first class the tutor confidently expressed the opinion that everyone can sing, then she met me.

I think the overwhelming majority of people have the capability of singing, the number who are genuinely 'tone deaf' is in fact very small. However.... whilst some people find it an easy thing to do, others need a mix of encouragement and tuition.  

[Dad3353]

Just now, zbd1960 said:

I think the overwhelming majority of people have the capability of singing ...

Even with an innate potential, it still requires a great deal of effort to do it at any reasonable level (beyond a family sing-song, for instance...). A lot of folk don't realise that, and imagine that they 'have it', without having put in the work. Some folk are just too shy to even try, too. Those that a really capable and confident in getting up and performing, either solo, as BV's or in a choral, are not that numerous. It's great when it all happens, though; Our Daughter sings in an amateur choral (modern repertoire...) and loves it. Their shows are splendid. 

[uk_lefty]

27 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

Even with an innate potential, it still requires a great deal of effort to do it at any reasonable level (beyond a family sing-song, for instance...). A lot of folk don't realise that, and imagine that they 'have it', without having put in the work. Some folk are just too shy to even try, too. Those that a really capable and confident in getting up and performing, either solo, as BV's or in a choral, are not that numerous. It's great when it all happens, though; Our Daughter sings in an amateur choral (modern repertoire...) and loves it. Their shows are splendid. 

Absolutely agree! And you can think you sound great singing along to the radio or whatever but then in a room of musos with nothing but a mic in front of you concentrating on the annunciation of each word and phrase etc... Its a real skill that looks a lot easier than it is!