Unpaid to Play?

[tauzero]

4 minutes ago, tegs07 said:

Good lord your certainly not an amateur angry pants are you? 
 

I see no mention of proportion of time spent to make something a profession.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/professional?q=Professional+

You're TimR's alter ego, aren't you?

https://www.google.com/search?q=professional&oq=prof&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j69i57j0i131i433j69i60l2.2462j1j7&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

[tegs07]

5 minutes ago, tauzero said:

You're TimR's alter ego, aren't you?

https://www.google.com/search?q=professional&oq=prof&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j69i57j0i131i433j69i60l2.2462j1j7&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

Nope I am an IT professional though and have a professional electricians qualification so can charge for electrical work if I wanted so in your definition I have to choose?

I still don’t understand how any of your personal insults relate to my simple points about amateur musicians not being a threat to professional ones nor the issue that if they are unproven why they should automatically get paid but am tired of this now.. Some people are simply rude.

Edited July 5, 2021 by tegs07

[Al Krow]

3 minutes ago, tegs07 said:

Nope I am an IT professional though and have a professional electricians qualification so can charge for electrical work if I wanted so in your definition I have to choose?

I still don’t understand how any of your personal insults relate to my simple points about amateur musicians not being a threat to professional ones nor the issue that if they are unproven why they should automatically get paid but am tired of this now.. Some people are simply rude.

Completely with you on that tegs. Zero need for bullying, personal insults etc on BC.

We're better than that.

[peteb]

1 hour ago, MacDaddy said:

 

many years ago, having played to what we thought was an apathetic crowd, one of the punters told us "you were great, you didn't get bottled or nuffink!". Another punter bought the band a round.

True story.

That reminds me of a big rock club I played in Barrow-in-Furness in the 80s. Big room with a massive stage and plenty of punters there, but the most hostile audience I have ever played to (only rivalled by a pub gig in Egremont, just up the coast, many years later).

There was a bit of heckling, minimal applause, threats to the guys doing sound and lights out front, someone unplugged the PA from the wall, etc. We played pretty well actually and even did an encore to spite them! After the show, we had to lock the singer in the dressing room for his own safety for a bit, as a few guys were making threats after he had taken the p155 out of them onstage.

Once we had packed down at the end of the night, the management bought us a drink and were saying how good they thought we were. I said it was a shame that audience didn’t agree, to which they replied we were the first none local band not to get bottled off since they started putting bands on again a couple of years before. They then went to talk about all the bands who had played there (it had been a bit of a circuit gig in the 60s) and how many had been bottled off, including a few well-known bands!

Sorry for the thread derail, as you were… 

Edited July 5, 2021 by peteb

[Dad3353]

[Mod's Hat On] Enough bickering, and no rudeness, please. Trade definitions if you will, but no insults. [/Mod's Hat On]

[grandad]

Over my time, say 20+ years, I've played for nothing and at most about £200 for a gig. I would guess most would have done similar. 

Never my main employment and untrained, I describe myself as amateur.  

Certainly the venues played for free are different to those paid in my view. 

Having given up gigging with a week-end covers band I can say I'm enjoying it more than ever. The pressure is off to perform or please anybody other than yourself, (hopefully though others too). 

I think a wide variety of venues is healthy. Music at every level from beginner to professional has to exist and allow progress to happen. It has to be fluid. 

Edited July 6, 2021 by grandad

[Muzz]

I play in a couple of covers/wedding bands. For those, we expect to be paid (especially the weddings), because we're good at what we do. We've done a few favours in terms of free gig slots for people who've helped us in the past, and if the pubs on our circuit reopen for bands with restrictions, we expect the money not to be as much until the pubs can pack em in as before. Anything personal, like benefits for people we know, etc, are a different matter. 

I also play in an originals band, we're preparing to do a few festival gigs for nowt (tho we'll sell merch), and we'd all kill to play Glasto for nowt...there's exposure and there's Exposure...

In terms of the OP's festival organisers, I'd be interested to see how any of their excuses for non-payment for music would go down with the PRS if they were pinged playing records...

[Marvin]

If someone's out to make money out of me, I'll take my cut.

All the best bands I've been in (some had pro musicians in) and the best bands in my area all charge. 

[tegs07]

14 hours ago, grandad said:

think a wide variety of venues is heathy. Music at every level from beginner to professional has to exist and allow progress to happen. It has to be fluid. 

I went on a trip down memory lane to my old home town and one of the pubs that used to serve the local music scene.

Back in the day it was a bit of a dump and an underage drinkers haven. Mid week unpaid, amateur acts could play. The good ones may even get invited to play the coverted Saturday night slot and get a small amount of pay but to a surprisingly large crowd. 

It’s now a tasteful gastro-pub. I had hand caught trout and a nice Chablis and put more in the till that afternoon than pretty much my entire teenage years drinking in the place. My middle aged, middle class self liked the place. My teenage self would have loathed it.

In short I doubt any Stranglers or Jams will be emerging from that genteel corner of leafy Surrey in the near future.

[Al Krow]

Today's teenagers would probably love it. Provided it has a vegan menu. 

[Barking Spiders]

18 hours ago, casapete said:

Maybe not an amateur, but the dreaded term 'semi-professional', surely an oxymoron? 🤣

I dread that term too. I've been in function bands where I got my cut but still considered myself an amateur who gets a bit of pocket money at the weekend. I wasn't playing for money regularly enough to be called 'semi pro'. 

[tegs07]

6 minutes ago, Barking Spiders said:

I dread that term too. I've been in function bands where I got my cut but still considered myself an amateur who gets a bit of pocket money at the weekend. I wasn't playing for money regularly enough to be called 'semi pro'. 

If your motivation is primarily enjoyment rather than profit then amateur would be a fitting description. (Intrinsic versus extrinsic motivation). There are plenty of very accomplished and experienced amateurs in all walks of life. I have some hobbies that I would not want to do for a living as they would become work not leisure.

Edited July 6, 2021 by tegs07

[yorks5stringer]

17 hours ago, Muzz said:

I play in a couple of covers/wedding bands. For those, we expect to be paid (especially the weddings), because we're good at what we do. We've done a few favours in terms of free gig slots for people who've helped us in the past, and if the pubs on our circuit reopen for bands with restrictions, we expect the money not to be as much until the pubs can pack em in as before. Anything personal, like benefits for people we know, etc, are a different matter. 

I also play in an originals band, we're preparing to do a few festival gigs for nowt (tho we'll sell merch), and we'd all kill to play Glasto for nowt...there's exposure and there's Exposure...

In terms of the OP's festival organisers, I'd be interested to see how any of their excuses for non-payment for music would go down with the PRS if they were pinged playing records...

I did make that point in the opening post although it may have looked like a comment from Facebook which was above it.

[Sarah5string]

[Muzz]

Gotcha...re-reading, they seem to think that the alternative to not paying for live music would be to not pay for recorded music...if that's the case, they haven't really thought it through...

[tegs07]

5 minutes ago, Sarah5string said:

This is true and a dilemma. Its not compulsory though but a choice. Will the exposure be of long term benefit? A pro can tell their booking agent paid only but may well take that unpaid support slot or festival if it’s likely to lead to more work later on.

[Supernaut]

My favourite is 'pay to play' venues...

Sell tickets at £5 a pop and for every ticket you sell, you get to keep £1...

I.e. Do all the work for us and then give us all the money.

Jog on, mate! 

[tegs07]

1 minute ago, Supernaut said:

My favourite is 'pay to play' venues...

Sell tickets at £5 a pop and for every ticket you sell, you get to keep £1...

I.e. Do all the work for us and then give us all the money.

Jog on, mate! 

Now that is an immoral and deplorable development…