Smoke on the Water - Heavy Metal?

[FinnDave]

10 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

Perhaps he steels magnolias.

Only if they're sugar coated.

[Mickyk]

It seems to me that posters are comparing todays definitions of what was made up as Heavy Metal back in the early seventies to todays so called Heavy Metal.

I don't know your ages ,but i can vouch for Deep Purple definitely being described as an Heavy Metal band back then.

The term  "Heavy Metal" was coined in the West Midlands due mainly to bands like Black Sabbath, and Judas Priest., so Toni Iommi, Rob  Halford of Judas Priest modelled their playing styles on the industrial factories who were churning out Metal castings and pressings that were exported all over the industrialised world, Hence the term Heavy Metal being coined Their inspiration came from this fact.

 

Edited July 15, 2021 by Mickyk

[Stub Mandrel]

On the sleeve notes of Space Ritual (1973) the band's crew are described as 'Heavy Metal Kids, no doubt a nod to Burroughs.

[FinnDave]

I thought the first musical reference to heavy metal was a line in 'Born to be Wild' which dates back to the late 60s.

I was a teenager at school in Stockport in the first half of the 70s and very much into music - can't remember the term 'heavy metal' ever being used. Purple, etc., was heavy rock. Perhaps different parts of the country used different descriptions.

[ubit]

19 minutes ago, FinnDave said:

Perhaps different parts of the country used different descriptions.

This is very possible. I first started having my eyes/ears opened to real music around '78/'79 when I started to listen to heavier bands. Thats what spoke to me and I think it was 1980 that the new wave of British heavy metal came around.(NWOBHM) That's to say heavy metal was around before the new wave otherwise there wouldn't have been a new wave. So somewhere bands were being described as heavy metal before 1980.

Edited July 16, 2021 by ubit

[tegs07]

33 minutes ago, ubit said:

This is very possible. I first started having my eyes/ears opened to real music around '78/'79 when I started to listen to heavier bands. Thats what spoke to me and I think it was 1980 that the new wave of British heavy metal came around.(NWOBHM) That's to say heavy metal was around before the new wave otherwise there wouldn't have been a new wave. So somewhere bands were being described as heavy metal before 1980.

Yes Black Sabbath were.
It’s  a term they didn’t particularly like. They saw themselves as a heavy rock band, which was the term used to describe their contemporaries. I guess some journalist may well have looked at the industrial heritage or just thought metal is harder than rock. It’s ultimately just a label to categorise music. This is akin to trying to nail down jelly. Music evolves and the label no longer fits hence the need for multiple sub genres and lots of people questioning who should go in what box and whether they have now sold out or grown out of that box so should be moved to another box.

Edited July 16, 2021 by tegs07

[Stub Mandrel]

In the mid-70s it was a term of derision for many critics.

This is why bands of the time didn't like the label. It was only towards the end of the decade that it came to be subsumed by the fans.

I suspect it's all quite subtle and I would need to refresh my memory by reading loads of old MM, NME and Sounds and listening to old Friday Rock shows.

Perhaps that's my retirement plan?

[Mickyk]

7 hours ago, FinnDave said:

I thought the first musical reference to heavy metal was a line in 'Born to be Wild' which dates back to the late 60s.

I was a teenager at school in Stockport in the first half of the 70s and very much into music - can't remember the term 'heavy metal' ever being used. Purple, etc., was heavy rock. Perhaps different parts of the country used different descriptions.

Heavy metal (or simply metal) is a genre of rock music^[3][4] that developed in the late 1960s and early 1970s, largely in the United Kingdom and the United States.^[5] With roots in blues rock, psychedelic rock, and acid rock,^[6] heavy metal bands developed a thick, massive sound, characterized by distortion, extended guitar solos, emphatic beats, and loudness. The lyrics and performances are sometimes associated with aggression and machismo.^[6]

In 1968, three of the genre's most famous pioneers, Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, and Deep Purple, were founded.^[7] Though they came to attract wide audiences, they were often derided by critics. Several American bands modified heavy metal into more accessible forms during the 1970s: the raw, sleazy sound and shock rock of Alice Cooper and Kiss; the blues-rooted rock of Aerosmith; and the flashy guitar leads and wild party rock of Van Halen.^[8] During the mid-1970s, Judas Priest helped spur the genre's evolution by discarding much of its blues influence,^[9][10] while Motörhead introduced a punk rock sensibility and an increasing emphasis on speed. Beginning in the late 1970s, bands in the new wave of British heavy metal such as Iron Maiden and Saxon followed in a similar vein. By the end of the decade, heavy metal fans became known as "metalheads" or "headbangers".

During the 1980s, glam metal became popular with groups such as Bon Jovi and Mötley Crüe. Underground scenes produced an array of more aggressive styles: thrash metal broke into the mainstream with bands such as Metallica, Slayer, Megadeth, and Anthrax, while other extreme subgenres such as death metal and black metal remain subcultural phenomena. Since the mid-1990s, popular styles have expanded the definition of the genre. These include groove metal and nu metal, the latter of which often incorporates elements of grunge and hip hop.

Sorry for the cut and paste, this should clear things up a tad. and this

 

Edited July 16, 2021 by Mickyk

[skankdelvar]

Your periodic reminder that:

* Academic research has established that the first reference in print to 'heavy metal bands' was penned by the American rock critic Lester Bangs in the February 1970 edition of Rolling Stone

* Born To Be Wild songwriter Mars Bonfire has stated that the line 'heavy metal thunder' was a reference to motorcycles

* 'Hapshash & The Coloured Coat Featuring the Human Host and the Heavy Metal Kids' was an art-rock band

* The Heavy Metal Kids didn't play heavy metal and were an entirely different band to 'Hapshash & The Coloured Coat Featuring the Human Host and the Heavy Metal Kids'

* Author William S Burroughs invented the term 'Heavy Metal Kid' and accidentally shot his wife dead in Mexico City in 1951

* Rob Halford allegedly managed a porn cinema before joining Judas Priest and was born in leafy Birmingham suburb Sutton Coldfield which is about as far as you can get from the Black Country and still be in the West Midlands.

[Stub Mandrel]

1 hour ago, skankdelvar said:

Rob Halford allegedly managed a porn cinema before joining Judas Priest and was born in leafy Birmingham suburb Sutton Coldfield which is about as far as you can get from the Black Country and still be in the West Midlands.

Err... you can stand with one foot in Walsall and one in Sutton Coldfield.

 

[skankdelvar]

1 hour ago, Stub Mandrel said:

Err... you can stand with one foot in Walsall and one in Sutton Coldfield.

 

Perhaps. Walsall is considered by many to be part of the Black Country and most maps accord with this view

They are, of course, completely wrong. The real Black Country comprises Dudley and Wolverhampton whereas Sandwell and Walsall are mere Yammer parvenus who feign a taste for porky scratchings while secretly obtaining foie gras from an artisan delicatessen in Aldridge.

[DawnPatroller]

Pah. Walsall isn't the Black Country.

[Stub Mandrel]

Black Country is where the 30-foot seam comes to the surface! And I know both the late chair of the Black Country Geological Society AND the Keeper of Geology at Dudley Museum so i knows where the coal goes

If anywhere in eh modern 'Black Country' is dodgy it's Wolverhampton west of Bilston and West Brom to the South East.

[Stub Mandrel]

39 minutes ago, MHMSWC#03 said:

Pah. Walsall isn't the Black Country.

Would you seriously tell anyone from Darlo they aren't Black Country? 🙂

[DawnPatroller]

1 minute ago, Stub Mandrel said:

Would you seriously tell anyone from Darlo they aren't Black Country? 🙂

Yes! I've nailed my colours to the mast now, I'll argue day is night if you engage 🤣

[DawnPatroller]

7 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

 I know both the late chair of the Black Country Geological Society AND the Keeper of Geology at Dudley Museum so i knows where the coal goes

 

More importantly, do you know the Keeper of the meerkats at Dudley Zoo?

[hiram.k.hackenbacker]

I have no clue what any of you are on about 😬

[skankdelvar]

13 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

I know both the late chair of the Black Country Geological Society AND the Keeper of Geology at Dudley Museum so i knows where the coal goes

5 minutes ago, MHMSWC#03 said:

More importantly, do you know the Keeper of the meerkats at Dudley Zoo?

I know a chap who owns a t-shirt bearing the slogan The Peoples' Republic of Walsall and he would doubtless assert that Walsall is part of the Black Country.

In the event that he were to do so I should snap my fingers in his face and cry 'P'shaw!'

 

[DawnPatroller]

11 minutes ago, hiram.k.hackenbacker said:

I have no clue what any of you are on about 😬

Home of Metal, innit.

[Stub Mandrel]

30 minutes ago, MHMSWC#03 said:

More importantly, do you know the Keeper of the meerkats at Dudley Zoo?

Well... the lady from Darlo I had in mind used to be a keeper at Dudley Zoo  Her dad restores banjos. 🙂

And I used know the director (before things all went a bit wobbly for him!)

[MacDaddy]

2 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

Err... you can stand with one foot in Walsall and one in Sutton Coldfield.

 

 

1 hour ago, skankdelvar said:

Perhaps. Walsall is considered by many to be part of the Black Country and most maps accord with this view

They are, of course, completely wrong. The real Black Country comprises Dudley and Wolverhampton whereas Sandwell and Walsall are mere Yammer parvenus who feign a taste for porky scratchings while secretly obtaining foie gras from an artisan delicatessen in Aldridge.

 

1 hour ago, MHMSWC#03 said:

Pah. Walsall isn't the Black Country.

"Doris Day".

" I never said she didn't ".

[Doctor J]

11 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

Err... you can stand with one foot in Walsall and one in Sutton Coldfield.

 

Surely the important question is why would you have a foot in either of those places?

Edited July 17, 2021 by Doctor J

[Richard R]

9 hours ago, hiram.k.hackenbacker said:

I have no clue what any of you are on about 😬

You know how some forums keep religiously to the topic in hand? Basschat isn't one of them....

[FinnDave]

10 minutes ago, Richard R said:

You know how some forums keep religiously to the topic in hand? Basschat isn't one of them....

Probably why Basschat is the only forum on any subject I still visit regularly.

[hiram.k.hackenbacker]

11 minutes ago, Richard R said:

You know how some forums keep religiously to the topic in hand? Basschat isn't one of them....

Yes and all the better for it I say 👍