Anyone know what this is?

[Lord Sausage]

This is on the wall at my son's guitar teachers studio. He's not quite sure what it is. Thinks it might be an old Tokai.

He started to remove the frets to turn it into a fretless but hasn't finished, that's why they're are no frets above the 12th.

 

Any ideas?

 

Cheers

[Downunderwonder]

Dunno but if you cruise Nz's TradeMe basses for sale expired auctions I am sure I saw one just like it not so long ago.

[Reggaebass]

We’ve had that bass before but I can’t remember what it’s called 

[gjones]

Looks a lot like one of these.

https://reverb.com/uk/item/37774412-burns-baldwin-baby-bison-bass-guitar-c-1965-sunburst-original-vintage-uk?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=12200508927&utm_content=campaignid=12200508927_adgroupid=115920727614_productpartitionid=1258648438448=merchantid=445804591_productid=37774412_keyword=_device=c_adposition=_matchtype=_creative=495081226236&gclid=Cj0KCQjw0K-HBhDDARIsAFJ6UGhgVvSxKuYk8I4MG4EEHmI-jlugoAAVKqhZLBOHcqbNYID-KBMjGGgaAgeVEALw_wcB

[Lord Sausage]

It looks a lot like that 👍

10 minutes ago, gjones said:

Looks a lot like one of these.

https://reverb.com/uk/item/37774412-burns-baldwin-baby-bison-bass-guitar-c-1965-sunburst-original-vintage-uk?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=12200508927&utm_content=campaignid=12200508927_adgroupid=115920727614_productpartitionid=1258648438448=merchantid=445804591_productid=37774412_keyword=_device=c_adposition=_matchtype=_creative=495081226236&gclid=Cj0KCQjw0K-HBhDDARIsAFJ6UGhgVvSxKuYk8I4MG4EEHmI-jlugoAAVKqhZLBOHcqbNYID-KBMjGGgaAgeVEALw_wcB

 

[Frank Blank]

Paging @Bassassin

[Reggaebass]

I thought tiesco , but there’s 2 similar, Is this it 

[casapete]

5 minutes ago, Reggaebass said:

I thought tiesco , but there’s 2 similar, Is this it 

I thought exactly the same. Think they made instruments for a number of brands - Silvertone, Aria etc and even possibly Audition for Woolworths over here! @Bassassin will be able to verify I'm sure.

https://reverb.com/item/2630244-1960-s-teisco-silvertone-burns-style-bass-sunburst

[Bassassin]

12 minutes ago, Frank Blank said:

Paging @Bassassin

J'arrive!

These are interesting, and subject of a lot of speculation over in MIJland. Prepare to be bored into a coma.

Strongly Burns-influenced, but not a straight copy, there are several variations on this same design, indicating a number of different factories made them over quite a long period.

What seem to be the earliest ones have a 2-a-side headstock & a pronounced German carve. Hardware & general features place these at mid-late 60s. As ever with this sort of thing, unless a brand name refers to a specific factory, ignore it:

https://reverb.com/item/18207457-dynatone-guyatone-short-scale-bass-1960-s-aged-white

There's also a guitar version of this style.

Subsequent versions have the 4-inline headstock, chrome pickups, tort plate etc that @Lord Sausage's example have. Here's where a brand name is useful, up to a point - these sometimes turn up branded Sakai, which was an actual manufacturer, Sakai Mokko. They can also have build traits associated with Sakai. This version appear in an early 70s Aria catalogue (probably 73-4, not 1970 as the link suggests) alongside a pair of Kalamazoo KG copies, which are also thought to be Sakai Mokko guitars:

https://www.vintagejapanguitars.com.br/en/aria-1970-catalogue/

This is where the mistaken connection with Matsumoku comes from - the incorrect assumption that all Aria/Aria Pro II instruments were Matsumoku products. It's interesting that the images are unbranded factory catalogue shots, and I can't remember one of these (or the KG lookey-likeys) being seen in the wild branded Aria.

However while I don't think Matsumoku was connected with these, there are enough variations to suggest several other factories were - some have 6-bolt neckplates, some have mahogany necks, others maple, while still others have painted necks covering strip ply construction - a known Sakai trait. All these minor differences suggest different factories made them, or were involved in supplying components. This might likely point to the involvement of Matsumoto Gakki Seizou Kumiai, the so-called Matsumoto Manufacturers Association, a collaborative group building instruments sourced from various woodshops, hardware & electronics manufacturers in the Matsumoto City area.

There are later, and slightly more crude versions of the same bass which were made in Korea, not Japan. This points to the migration of the manufacture of low-end instruments from Japan to Korea in the mid/late 70s, and demonstrating how specific established designs were exported. This one is branded Arirang (named after a traditional Korean song), a common 70s/80s Korean brand name. It's unclear whether Arirang was a manufacturer in its own right, as there's evidence suggesting it might have been a sub-brand of Samick.

https://reverb.com/item/786783-arirang-short-scale-bass-1970s-olympic-white-mahogany-neck

It's entirely probable that manufacture of this style continued in Korea (and possibly Taiwan) into the 80s, like many designs & styles that originated in Japan in the 60s did. Which coincidentally, leads me quite neatly to...

16 minutes ago, casapete said:

I thought exactly the same. Think they made instruments for a number of brands - Silvertone, Aria etc and even possibly Audition for Woolworths over here! @Bassassin will be able to verify I'm sure.

https://reverb.com/item/2630244-1960-s-teisco-silvertone-burns-style-bass-sunburst

Yeah - I can & they didn't! Well, broadly anyway. Excuse me while I rant incoherently:

There's a tendency for people to look at anything old looking & Far-Eastern looking and go TEISSSCOOOOO!!! (in the same way anything late 70s/early 80s & stripey provokes MATSUUMOOKUUUU!!! - as though no-one else ever ripped off Alembic) whereas the reality is there were countless manufacturers making & exporting similar odd little guitars in the 60s. Many of these designs continued being made as starter instruments in the 70s, alongside the 'proper' copies, and later being manufactured in Korea & Taiwan through the 70s & 80s. Teisco was actually taken over by Kawai Gakki in 1967, and ceased manufacturing in its own right at that point, and a lot of what people try to flog as '60s Teisco' is actually 80s Taiwanese catalogue tat.

And breathe. There. It's over. You made it. Well done you!  

[Waddo Soqable]

The first ever bass I owned was a rather simplfied version of this, the pickguard was one piece black and didn't have the top section on the " upper horn". It was in a crude 2 colour red to black "sunburst" and the PUs looked plainer.. I think it appeared only once in public performance with our improvised punk "ensemble" I swapped it with someone for a plastic clarinet that I had, they most certainly got the better deal ..

[Lord Sausage]

7 hours ago, Bassassin said:

J'arrive!

These are interesting, and subject of a lot of speculation over in MIJland. Prepare to be bored into a coma.

Strongly Burns-influenced, but not a straight copy, there are several variations on this same design, indicating a number of different factories made them over quite a long period.

What seem to be the earliest ones have a 2-a-side headstock & a pronounced German carve. Hardware & general features place these at mid-late 60s. As ever with this sort of thing, unless a brand name refers to a specific factory, ignore it:

https://reverb.com/item/18207457-dynatone-guyatone-short-scale-bass-1960-s-aged-white

There's also a guitar version of this style.

Subsequent versions have the 4-inline headstock, chrome pickups, tort plate etc that @Lord Sausage's example have. Here's where a brand name is useful, up to a point - these sometimes turn up branded Sakai, which was an actual manufacturer, Sakai Mokko. They can also have build traits associated with Sakai. This version appear in an early 70s Aria catalogue (probably 73-4, not 1970 as the link suggests) alongside a pair of Kalamazoo KG copies, which are also thought to be Sakai Mokko guitars:

https://www.vintagejapanguitars.com.br/en/aria-1970-catalogue/

This is where the mistaken connection with Matsumoku comes from - the incorrect assumption that all Aria/Aria Pro II instruments were Matsumoku products. It's interesting that the images are unbranded factory catalogue shots, and I can't remember one of these (or the KG lookey-likeys) being seen in the wild branded Aria.

However while I don't think Matsumoku was connected with these, there are enough variations to suggest several other factories were - some have 6-bolt neckplates, some have mahogany necks, others maple, while still others have painted necks covering strip ply construction - a known Sakai trait. All these minor differences suggest different factories made them, or were involved in supplying components. This might likely point to the involvement of Matsumoto Gakki Seizou Kumiai, the so-called Matsumoto Manufacturers Association, a collaborative group building instruments sourced from various woodshops, hardware & electronics manufacturers in the Matsumoto City area.

There are later, and slightly more crude versions of the same bass which were made in Korea, not Japan. This points to the migration of the manufacture of low-end instruments from Japan to Korea in the mid/late 70s, and demonstrating how specific established designs were exported. This one is branded Arirang (named after a traditional Korean song), a common 70s/80s Korean brand name. It's unclear whether Arirang was a manufacturer in its own right, as there's evidence suggesting it might have been a sub-brand of Samick.

https://reverb.com/item/786783-arirang-short-scale-bass-1970s-olympic-white-mahogany-neck

It's entirely probable that manufacture of this style continued in Korea (and possibly Taiwan) into the 80s, like many designs & styles that originated in Japan in the 60s did. Which coincidentally, leads me quite neatly to...

Yeah - I can & they didn't! Well, broadly anyway. Excuse me while I rant incoherently:

There's a tendency for people to look at anything old looking & Far-Eastern looking and go TEISSSCOOOOO!!! (in the same way anything late 70s/early 80s & stripey provokes MATSUUMOOKUUUU!!! - as though no-one else ever ripped off Alembic) whereas the reality is there were countless manufacturers making & exporting similar odd little guitars in the 60s. Many of these designs continued being made as starter instruments in the 70s, alongside the 'proper' copies, and later being manufactured in Korea & Taiwan through the 70s & 80s. Teisco was actually taken over by Kawai Gakki in 1967, and ceased manufacturing in its own right at that point, and a lot of what people try to flog as '60s Teisco' is actually 80s Taiwanese catalogue tat.

And breathe. There. It's over. You made it. Well done you!  

Could you be a bit more in depth with your answer next time please!

 

[Frank Blank]

1 hour ago, Lord Sausage said:

Could you be a bit more in depth with your answer next time please!

Would you have been happier if he’d said it’s a Ford Transit? There’s no pleasing some people… 🙄

[Dad3353]

2 hours ago, Frank Blank said:

Would you have been happier if he’d said it’s a Ford Transit? There’s no pleasing some people… 🙄

Ahem... I'm pretty sure that the reply given was in the spirit of humorous sarcasm, but lacked the necessary Smiley to that effect. Peace. 

... and breath  ...

[Frank Blank]

2 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

Ahem... I'm pretty sure that the reply given was in the spirit of humorous sarcasm, but lacked the necessary Smiley to that effect. Peace. 

... and breath  ...

…as was mine. @Lord Sausage and I have been on excellent terms since we redecorated the mezzanine.

[Dad3353]

17 minutes ago, Frank Blank said:

…as was mine...

Well, there's a relief..! For a while I thought I was needing to prevent WWIII. 

[Frank Blank]

3 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

Well, there's a relief..! For a while I thought I was needing to prevent WWIII. 

Good Lord no, moi?

[Lord Sausage]

[Lord Sausage]

21 hours ago, Bassassin said:

J'arrive!

These are interesting, and subject of a lot of speculation over in MIJland. Prepare to be bored into a coma.

Strongly Burns-influenced, but not a straight copy, there are several variations on this same design, indicating a number of different factories made them over quite a long period.

What seem to be the earliest ones have a 2-a-side headstock & a pronounced German carve. Hardware & general features place these at mid-late 60s. As ever with this sort of thing, unless a brand name refers to a specific factory, ignore it:

https://reverb.com/item/18207457-dynatone-guyatone-short-scale-bass-1960-s-aged-white

There's also a guitar version of this style.

Subsequent versions have the 4-inline headstock, chrome pickups, tort plate etc that @Lord Sausage's example have. Here's where a brand name is useful, up to a point - these sometimes turn up branded Sakai, which was an actual manufacturer, Sakai Mokko. They can also have build traits associated with Sakai. This version appear in an early 70s Aria catalogue (probably 73-4, not 1970 as the link suggests) alongside a pair of Kalamazoo KG copies, which are also thought to be Sakai Mokko guitars:

https://www.vintagejapanguitars.com.br/en/aria-1970-catalogue/

This is where the mistaken connection with Matsumoku comes from - the incorrect assumption that all Aria/Aria Pro II instruments were Matsumoku products. It's interesting that the images are unbranded factory catalogue shots, and I can't remember one of these (or the KG lookey-likeys) being seen in the wild branded Aria.

However while I don't think Matsumoku was connected with these, there are enough variations to suggest several other factories were - some have 6-bolt neckplates, some have mahogany necks, others maple, while still others have painted necks covering strip ply construction - a known Sakai trait. All these minor differences suggest different factories made them, or were involved in supplying components. This might likely point to the involvement of Matsumoto Gakki Seizou Kumiai, the so-called Matsumoto Manufacturers Association, a collaborative group building instruments sourced from various woodshops, hardware & electronics manufacturers in the Matsumoto City area.

There are later, and slightly more crude versions of the same bass which were made in Korea, not Japan. This points to the migration of the manufacture of low-end instruments from Japan to Korea in the mid/late 70s, and demonstrating how specific established designs were exported. This one is branded Arirang (named after a traditional Korean song), a common 70s/80s Korean brand name. It's unclear whether Arirang was a manufacturer in its own right, as there's evidence suggesting it might have been a sub-brand of Samick.

https://reverb.com/item/786783-arirang-short-scale-bass-1970s-olympic-white-mahogany-neck

It's entirely probable that manufacture of this style continued in Korea (and possibly Taiwan) into the 80s, like many designs & styles that originated in Japan in the 60s did. Which coincidentally, leads me quite neatly to...

Yeah - I can & they didn't! Well, broadly anyway. Excuse me while I rant incoherently:

There's a tendency for people to look at anything old looking & Far-Eastern looking and go TEISSSCOOOOO!!! (in the same way anything late 70s/early 80s & stripey provokes MATSUUMOOKUUUU!!! - as though no-one else ever ripped off Alembic) whereas the reality is there were countless manufacturers making & exporting similar odd little guitars in the 60s. Many of these designs continued being made as starter instruments in the 70s, alongside the 'proper' copies, and later being manufactured in Korea & Taiwan through the 70s & 80s. Teisco was actually taken over by Kawai Gakki in 1967, and ceased manufacturing in its own right at that point, and a lot of what people try to flog as '60s Teisco' is actually 80s Taiwanese catalogue tat.

And breathe. There. It's over. You made it. Well done you!  

Thanks by the way.

 

Thanks to everyone, cheers

[Bassassin]

22 hours ago, Bassassin said:

J'arrive!

These are interesting, and subject of a lot of speculation over in MIJland. Prepare to be bored into a coma.

Strongly Burns-influenced, but not a straight copy, there are several variations on this same design, indicating a number of different factories made them over quite a long period.

What seem to be the earliest ones have a 2-a-side headstock & a pronounced German carve. Hardware & general features place these at mid-late 60s. As ever with this sort of thing, unless a brand name refers to a specific factory, ignore it:

https://reverb.com/item/18207457-dynatone-guyatone-short-scale-bass-1960-s-aged-white

There's also a guitar version of this style.

Subsequent versions have the 4-inline headstock, chrome pickups, tort plate etc that @Lord Sausage's example have. Here's where a brand name is useful, up to a point - these sometimes turn up branded Sakai, which was an actual manufacturer, Sakai Mokko. They can also have build traits associated with Sakai. This version appear in an early 70s Aria catalogue (probably 73-4, not 1970 as the link suggests) alongside a pair of Kalamazoo KG copies, which are also thought to be Sakai Mokko guitars:

https://www.vintagejapanguitars.com.br/en/aria-1970-catalogue/

This is where the mistaken connection with Matsumoku comes from - the incorrect assumption that all Aria/Aria Pro II instruments were Matsumoku products. It's interesting that the images are unbranded factory catalogue shots, and I can't remember one of these (or the KG lookey-likeys) being seen in the wild branded Aria.

However while I don't think Matsumoku was connected with these, there are enough variations to suggest several other factories were - some have 6-bolt neckplates, some have mahogany necks, others maple, while still others have painted necks covering strip ply construction - a known Sakai trait. All these minor differences suggest different factories made them, or were involved in supplying components. This might likely point to the involvement of Matsumoto Gakki Seizou Kumiai, the so-called Matsumoto Manufacturers Association, a collaborative group building instruments sourced from various woodshops, hardware & electronics manufacturers in the Matsumoto City area.

There are later, and slightly more crude versions of the same bass which were made in Korea, not Japan. This points to the migration of the manufacture of low-end instruments from Japan to Korea in the mid/late 70s, and demonstrating how specific established designs were exported. This one is branded Arirang (named after a traditional Korean song), a common 70s/80s Korean brand name. It's unclear whether Arirang was a manufacturer in its own right, as there's evidence suggesting it might have been a sub-brand of Samick.

https://reverb.com/item/786783-arirang-short-scale-bass-1970s-olympic-white-mahogany-neck

It's entirely probable that manufacture of this style continued in Korea (and possibly Taiwan) into the 80s, like many designs & styles that originated in Japan in the 60s did. Which coincidentally, leads me quite neatly to...

Yeah - I can & they didn't! Well, broadly anyway. Excuse me while I rant incoherently:

There's a tendency for people to look at anything old looking & Far-Eastern looking and go TEISSSCOOOOO!!! (in the same way anything late 70s/early 80s & stripey provokes MATSUUMOOKUUUU!!! - as though no-one else ever ripped off Alembic) whereas the reality is there were countless manufacturers making & exporting similar odd little guitars in the 60s. Many of these designs continued being made as starter instruments in the 70s, alongside the 'proper' copies, and later being manufactured in Korea & Taiwan through the 70s & 80s. Teisco was actually taken over by Kawai Gakki in 1967, and ceased manufacturing in its own right at that point, and a lot of what people try to flog as '60s Teisco' is actually 80s Taiwanese catalogue tat.

And breathe. There. It's over. You made it. Well done you!  

I probably should have added:

TL; DR version for the hard of attention span/giving a sh!t - it's complicated, nobody knows, but it's definitely not what Matey on Ebay/Reverb says it is.